NEW! Epcot News and Rumors... GIGANTAMUNDO updates, finally!

[darthdarrel]

Pooh is still operating, as is Buzz.

Thanks Grizz!
I will have to ride The Winnie the Pooh ride when I get there in 2 weeks, I don't know why, but eventhough I loved toy story, I have no desire to ride buzz lightyear.
:hammer:

 

[SpenceMan01]

If WoL opens for Christmas, will it stay open as they close the Land to refurb for Soarin? Anyone know? I'd like to get one last WoL experience during my trip in Jan.

Anyone wanna throw me a bone here?

 

[General Grizz]

Anyone wanna throw me a bone here?

It is POSSIBLE. I will keep you updated.

 

[DMC-12]

Seasonal operation is not.

If its a pavilion with low attendance, I would think that it is. Why spend the bucks on CM's and other resources if its a ghost town in there?...When, you can just shift those resources elsewhere, where they may be needed.

 

[General Grizz]

If its a pavilion with low attendance, I would think that it is. Why spend the bucks on CM's and other resources if its a ghost town in there?...When, you can just shift those resources elsewhere, where they may be needed.

Well, in the case of Wonders of Life (according to what I'm being told), Disney is making it seasonal for a tax revenue and would have plans to shut it down for good by next year (thus, the objective is not really to open it seasonally as there are no current plans as of yet). Disney, I hear, is rather looking to fill the seasonal quota and recieve the tax benefit and then shut it down for good. Don't take this as 100% as of yet, but I am almost certain this is the case. I will let you know if I get anything conflicting. (I know for sure about the tax revenue, but I don't want to put the application in complete stone . . . yet).

Although attendance was several thousand people per day higher than UoE or Imagination at Wonders of Life, Disney seems to be dodging the bullet here. There is so much potential in the pavilion that even a cheaper update (as I described earlier here or in the management thread in General Discussion) could be made to bring guests in booming (see: Living Seas). I think it's only courteous. . . because, when will the line be drawn? Image Works (closed to save insurance costs), Odyssey, Wolrd Showplace, and now Wonders?

 

[askmike1]

Pooh is still operating, as is Buzz.

Pooh and Buzz are two extremely popular attractions at WDW. Waits for both can reach over an hour (and this is because of popularity, not breakdowns). As for other recent familiy attractions, lets not forget Mickey's Philharmagic, former Hunchback of Notre Dame, Kilimanjaro Safaries, Festival of Lion King, Tarzan Rocks, former Millenium Village, & Sounds Dangerous.

As for the land, I am going to hold all judgement until after an official announcement has been made and I have seen the new theme. Personally I could care less about the balloons and fountain. I will miss the food court, but the new food area may be even better.

-Michael

 

[speck76]

Well, in the case of Wonders of Life (according to what I'm being told), Disney is making it seasonal for a tax revenue and would have plans to shut it down for good by next year (thus, the objective is not really to open it seasonally as there are no current plans as of yet). Disney, I hear, is rather looking to fill the seasonal quota and recieve the tax benefit and then shut it down for good. Don't take this as 100% as of yet, but I am almost certain this is the case. I will let you know if I get anything conflicting. (I know for sure about the tax revenue, but I don't want to put the application in complete stone . . . yet).

Do you mean to say is that the assessment has been done for this year, so their would be no tax value to demolishing it this year, yet if demolished, the asset (Epcot) would be devalued slightly. Next year, if could be considered "vacant" and not assessed.

Also...I will restate my opinion that an attraction can not be judged a success by attendance alone.

 

[KevinPage]

No, seriously, this is NOT why I would protest the change. It's not the balloons and fountain leaving -- it's the SPIRIT of the attraction that has the potential to be lost. If you read my protest thread, there is NO article under "Balloons, Fountain." There IS a subject about the pavilion's serenity, but the concern is the change that would replace the setting.

We can agree to disagree on this point. I don't think there is any SPIRIT there to begin with. I find the pavillon to be heavily congested on the ground floor with all the tables and chairs. It doesn't take alot of people to cause this either. This is not my idea of peaceful

Does it fit? Does Soaring over CALIFORNIA REALLY have to do with the Land and symbiosis? Will handgliders themes enhance the understanding of our intricate relationships with the environment?

If you have been on the attraction, most people won't know all the scenes are from California if they are not told so. If the travel company theme is correct, you could be taken on a journey over the many different types of terrain in America, without knowing the difference.

If they tell you THIS IS CALIFORNIA, then I still seeing it fit in with the theme of "The Land". CA has alot of varied environments due to its huge size.

The current way the pavillon is, besides Living With the Land, what else teaches you about SYMBIOSIS? Food Rocks didn't, the food court didn't or the water fountain. So if anything IMHO they are ADDING to your knowledge of different landscapes. And maybe they will change Living With the Land so it isn't as "dull"

If I was standing in the Land ten years ago, I would have said, "Change this puppy." I would have had pure confidence that Disney could have made the Land better. Ten years later, I do not hold that confidence. Why? Because Disney has stripped Epcot of its animatronics, its peaceful openness, its song, and high-quality queues. (i.e. vents and speakers in full sight).

I can understand your point and there is validity to it. BUT, has Disney done a total redo of an entire pavillon before without demolishing it? MS & Test Track are completely NEW, so I don't count them, even though they are very good attractions.

The Journey/Figment fisco was more focused on the ride itself & UOE was improved over its former self, but no major attraction was added to it. The Land, we are talking about adding a big deal E ticket ride and redoing the whole pavillon. I would honestly be shocked if Disney screwed it up and did a cheapo/tacky redo of the entire pavillon, which would lessen the impact of Soarin'. It's easy to get away with screwing up a ride, but to botch a whole pavillon would be a whole other story

Which is more relevant to Epcot's message: flying over California or understanding man's relationship with nature?

Again, I don't see how Soarin is ruining any message that the pavillon currently has. Living with the Land is staying and that is what gives you the message. Circle of Life is up in the air, so who knows about that.

This is debatable, but the more determining level comes when we factor in how an UNORIGINAL attraction that is 100% in existence in another Disney park is taking over a RELEVANT, original peace of art? Why can't Disney make a NEW experience to guests, capturing (and perhaps even ENHANCING?) the essence of Soarin', but theming it to suit The Land's theme?

What if an orignal piece of "art" is dull and boring? What if it can be better served by changing it? Do we know exactly how Soarin's is going to be implemented? If not, it's hard to complain based on "fears" they will screw it up.

Otherwise, Soarin just looks like a "dropping" from Disneyland despite the "Oh, flying over the Golden Gate Bridge and orange groves fits in perfectly."

Unless you are an internet maniac or Disneyphile, 95% of the guests will have no idea this ride existed before getting here. How many average park vistors know that Splash Mountain was in Disneyland first? Heck most of them don't know that PoTC, Haunted Mansion, Peter Pan or Small World are clones.

This in itself (California, not a new film) shows dishonesty. It is no longer pure. And this leads to my distrust in the reTHEMING of the pavilion. Will there be HONESTY in this theming? Will there be PURENESS?

To me this is pyscho babble that holds no water (even from a fountain ) Terms like PURE & HONESTLY are highly judgemental & subjective.

 

[ead79]

The rehab may be more than likely similar to the 1994/5 rehab, which could entail only changing the final portion of the ride. If this is the case, this is WONDERFUL news, with the potential assurance that the classic attraction (the most popular attraction at Walt Disney World) may continue to contain the Disney style and message.

I am SO THRILLED to hear that Spaceship Earth might get an update type of rehab! This is literally my favorite attraction at Walt Disney World and a wonderful example of classic Disney and of animatronics. I couldn't bear to see it go.

I will be sure to see Cranium Command on my November/December trip if WoL is open. I have always enjoyed that show.

I am very interested to see how the Land turns out. I don't have a problem with changine the Sunshine Season Food Fair area. It is very crowded, so I think it could be better designed. I will miss the fountain and balloons a lot though.

 

[TURKEY]

Grizz, check your PMs.

 

[General Grizz]

Grizz, check your PMs.

Checked... does this have to do with CBJ? I see nothing new...

 

[Brooke]

I may be one of the few but I am really happy they are updating The Land. They need to update most of the pavillions in my opinion they look so outdated. I mean, it's called FUTURE World after all.

 

[esauerh]

I can understand your point and there is validity to it. BUT, has Disney done a total redo of an entire pavillon before without demolishing it? MS & Test Track are completely NEW, so I don't count them, even though they are very good attractions.

Yes, Disney did redo an entire pavilion at Epcot without demolishing it. Test Track was a redo of World of Motion. They didn't demolish the physical pavilion, just gutted it out and reworked it.

 

[jrriddle]

I may be one of the few but I am really happy they are updating The Land. They need to update most of the pavillions in my opinion they look so outdated. I mean, it's called FUTURE World after all.

Agreed. Future World not History World. Change is OK, just keep the balance. Not everything needs to be replaced with a Mission Space Thrill Ride. I'm sure even Grizz has agreed that a rehab (or even a replacement) is a good thing if it can keep the "Spirit" of Epcot alive.
Also as far as Soarin' goes can I direct everyone's attention to page 23 in "Imagineering-A behind the Dreams look..." in Tony Baxter's concept for the Land pavilion the description reads that it "would allow guests to experience the wonders found on, ABOVE, and below The Land." Seems like Soarin' (especially when it gets a new film) fits right in with what Baxter intended for this pavilion.
Thanks again for the update Grizz.
I have to say out of everything that I read, the Red Flag on the Canadian Raft ride really disapointed me. I was looking forward to the expansion of the Rockies and covering Soarin. About the replacement (perhaps a coaster) that the funds will go towards, would that be between the Canada pavilion and Soarin or Between The Land and The Living Seas?

 

[BwanaBob]

Here's my rant...

Why combine two attractions in one pavillion? Nowhere else has this been done. If the bottom floor is as congested as everyone says it is (and I will agree most of the time), that means the concept IS WORKING VERY WELL.

Don't tell me it would have cost MORE to just build the ride building and then attach some sort of queue. You already have a main draw for the Land... ie:Living with the Land. Why squeeze two attractions into one pavillion?
Better yet, build another "pavillion" and then capitalize on the concept of 'flight' as a whole.
Look at M:S. Pavillion? Not quite. TT? That's a stretch. Hell, at this rate, why bother with a pavillion period.

I would even go so far as to say that the exit for Soarin' should have dumped folks out by the backstage entry behind Imagination, but that would cause too much walking for those with strollers.

I am becomming more and more frustrated with the fact that A) The Living Seas is, IMO, becoming The Dying Seas. Fix the damn ride system and do something with the half-a__'d building. B) Even though I didn't really care for WoL, why in gods name are they screwing with the Land, but moth-balling the TRUE pavillion of WoL?

Oh, wait... I forgot... that's the new mantra for EPCOT... Expired Pavillions Cost Outrageous Tender. So we'll just build something else. :hammer:

 

[disnyfan89]

Why not add two attractions to one pavilion!!! Sure it will cause more traffic in the pavilion but that's why they are rehabbing it! Would you have rather they Closed WoL and rebuild that into a Flight pavilion and letarly cause the whole park to tip over or would you have rather added it on to another Pavilion.

 

[WDWEric]

Thanks for the update!!!

 

[KevinPage]

Why combine two attractions in one pavillion? Nowhere else has this been done. If the bottom floor is as congested as everyone says it is (and I will agree most of the time), that means the concept IS WORKING VERY WELL.

Didn't The Land have 3 attractions until Food Rocks closed? Doesn't WoL have 3 as well? I wish MS & TT were part of a bigger pavillon with a few lower scales rides in each of them, but alas.

Don't tell me it would have cost MORE to just build the ride building and then attach some sort of queue.

It probably would have been cheaper, but that is the thing: Disney is redoing the pavillon in the hopes to MAKE IT BETTER. Maybe they have other plans that we don't know of yet to expand the new "theme" to tie in with Living with the Land and a replacement for Circle of Life. To me this is a GOOD THING. I think more people would complain if they jsut "stuck a thrill ride with no concept to the whole Epcot experience b/w Land & Imagination"

You already have a main draw for the Land... ie:Living with the Land.

This ride benefits by having a large food court next to it and the idea that it is some great experience due to long wait times, not it's quality or enjoyment. From all reports, they decreased the number of boats, which increased the lines and demand

I am becomming more and more frustrated with the fact that A) The Living Seas is, IMO, becoming The Dying Seas. Fix the damn ride system and do something with the half-a__'d building.

I agree, I hate half measures. Do or don't so something, teasin people with mininal enhancements is frustrating.

B) Even though I didn't really care for WoL, why in gods name are they screwing with the Land, but moth-balling the TRUE pavillion of WoL?

I don't see how they are screwing with The Land. I don't see how any of it is the pinnacle of entertainment of knowledge. Don't you think it could be far better? Which is hopefully what they are planning to do.

What's so TRUE about Wol? The only people who visit WoL are Grizz and his band of mind controlled kiddies :lol: (cheap stab, but I couldn't resist)

 

[wannab@dis]

What's so TRUE about Wol? The only people who visit WoL are Grizz and his band of mind controlled kiddies :lol: (cheap stab, but I couldn't resist)

I haven't visited WoL in a while, but I would if they updated or added a new attraction. There are many ways to update it to bring in more visitors, but not mess it up.

 

[General Grizz]

We can agree to disagree on this point. I don't think there is any SPIRIT there to begin with. I find the pavillon to be heavily congested on the ground floor with all the tables and chairs. It doesn't take alot of people to cause this either. This is not my idea of peaceful

Peaceful is not measured by the amount of people in the pavilion. Rather, it is measured in the MOOD that draws these people here. In this case, the center of the Land serves as a food area. But the mix of light music, (air conditioning!!), and the peaceful tone of colors (which I do not think are outdated, but I would not mind being replaced... if by something better). . and let's not forget AIR CONDITIONING! The open-ness is further a sign of care and courtesy. A variation of options. It's not a run for the money.

It's places like this where one can relax. Have an ice cream. Have contrast to the hustle and bustle that is the area around Test Track. Likewise, the green area around Land and Living Seas is an ideal break from the noise of Future World East.

Figure 1: An Epcot guests takes a nap above the families enjoying lunch, hearing the peaceful noises from the fountain and the serene background music.

Wonders of Life is also a peaceful pavilion. Even when it opened and was bustling with attendance. Although now only Grizz and his 10,999 kiddies rolleyes: ) set foot in Wonders of Life, it is still an area to sit back, relax. Have a bite to eat, catch a funny show. And if you're ambitious, take on a thrill ride. These ideals can be maintained in a redone pavilion that would bring in the massives once more. It cannot be done in a pavilion that runs each day but is never open to guests.

If you have been on the attraction, most people won't know all the scenes are from California if they are not told so.

Then let's fool the "dumb guests" why don't we! Did you do well on your SATs, Kevin?

CALIFORNIA:THE LAND::
(a) America:World Showcase
(b) Morocco: World Showcase
(c) Toronto: World Showcase
(d) Mexico: World Showcase
(e) Norway: World Showcase

If you picked C, you are correct!

But, seriously here, this isn't an issue of what the guests 'will know' or 'won't know.' It's rather a concern that Disney does not care for what affects a pavilion. If they did, like they would have done in the 1980s, Disney would have rethemed the ride to a showcase of the lands and ecosystems of the world - and perhaps even man's impact.

Thus, from my standpoint, this is more reflective of the "dishonesty" of telling a story. Which means, "Will Disney's next rehabs have just as little care? Just because the guests may not tell that it's a film about California?" Golden Gate Bridge. . . Disneyland. . . hmm.

Kinda reminds me of the recent Walt Disney World commercial. It features a little dog running around what is clearly Disneyland's astro orbiter and Sleeping Beauty Castle. Oy.

I am still dying to know what the retheming of the Land entails. If it's a decent change, I will have no problems. But I've already posted my reasons for distrusting management (which started with the general failure that was Food Rocks ten years ago and stands to this day at the failures of Journey into Imagination w/Figment and Goofy's Dancing Jamboree) . . . and hopefully, Disney may take these points into consideration when thrusting the Land into the 21st century.