NobodyElse
Well-Known Member
I can't imagine that crosswalk closing until the bridge is in full operation. You should be safe.
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New Disneyland Parking Garage and Transportation Hub
- Thread starter RMichael21
- Start date
I can't imagine that crosswalk closing until the bridge is in full operation. You should be safe.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
And I will be honest, the city probably does care more about vehicular traffic than pedestrian flow.
Also, based on the little we know about Disney's proposal (mainly the concept art) the new security area looks larger and much more well designed as compared to the current version, which really were built quickly and was designed to be temporary, until Disney accepted the fact that they had to do it for multiple reasons. (One of the original ones was public image, and that most folks knew it was much more a show than a "real" check, a "Feel Good" response). Disney has totally changed its attitude in regards to them, and works with many law enforcement agencies including the Department of Homeland Security to make them a true security check. Is it perfect, no, but it is a lot better than a decade ago, when it was more of a joke.
Pretty sure Disney has designed it to handle large crowds in an efficient method.
Heck, look at the issue at the DCA Grand Californian gate, the line-up is so bad, Disney Hotel Guests are opting to use the Downtown Disney security check to get to the main Esplanade instead.
Also, based on the little we know about Disney's proposal (mainly the concept art) the new security area looks larger and much more well designed as compared to the current version, which really were built quickly and was designed to be temporary, until Disney accepted the fact that they had to do it for multiple reasons. (One of the original ones was public image, and that most folks knew it was much more a show than a "real" check, a "Feel Good" response). Disney has totally changed its attitude in regards to them, and works with many law enforcement agencies including the Department of Homeland Security to make them a true security check. Is it perfect, no, but it is a lot better than a decade ago, when it was more of a joke.
Pretty sure Disney has designed it to handle large crowds in an efficient method.
Heck, look at the issue at the DCA Grand Californian gate, the line-up is so bad, Disney Hotel Guests are opting to use the Downtown Disney security check to get to the main Esplanade instead.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
As for when the proposed changes will be made,for the most part, the entire new Eastern Gateway has to be up and running (Bridge, ramps and new Security check) before they close down the current options.
So sometime in 2018 is a good guess, subject to delays due to the approval process and construction delays.
The biggest impact will be off of Harbor Blvd and onto Manchester/Clementine and Disney Way.
So sometime in 2018 is a good guess, subject to delays due to the approval process and construction delays.
The biggest impact will be off of Harbor Blvd and onto Manchester/Clementine and Disney Way.
thequirkysarah
Active Member
See, this is what has me thinking that the whole second pedestrian entrance via the Manchester crosswalk might just be a big puppet show. Disney claims they are still going to have an entrance off of Harbor for the immediate Harbor hotels, then when they "realize" that it would be logistically difficult they cut the second entrance point. It would keep the Harbor hotels placated until it was too late. It would actually be a pretty dang clever plan.
D
Deleted member 107043
Which is completely counterintuitive when you think about the area in question. But then again this is Orange County we're talking about. It isn't a very progressive place when it comes to urban design and transportation.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
No, the ONLY way to get to the west side of Harbor and a sidewalk will be at Manchester (Mimi's Cafe near HoJo's.).
All folks that head to the corner of Harbor and Disney Way will be forced east to behind the Grand Legacy and the new Pedestrian Entrance.
A third entrance will be at the north end of the new Transportation Hub for places like the Quality Inn and Holiday Inn Express. I also wouldn't be surprised if some HoJo's and Courtyard guests to use that entrance to avoid crossing Harbor at street level.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
You really think that people below the closed intersection in red are going to choose the blue path over the green? (Yellow is the presumed shared path.) I doubt it.
The problem with the green arrow for the sidewalk on the west side of Harbor that leads to the yellow arrow into the esplanade is that the green arrow folks haven't passed through security. The blue path folks have passed through security. Disney won't set up a second security screening area at the end of the skybridge for folks coming in off Harbor.
It's going to be a longer walk for some motels, but the point to all this is to get folks through security and then up off of city streets in a controlled environment. Extra entrances off Harbor for a few motels doesn't allow that to happen, so it won't.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
Actually Hans, Anaheim is quite progressive when it comes to urban redevelopment and repopulating urban spaces. Have you been to downtown Anaheim and the Anaheim Packing District lately? It's not Brooklyn by any stretch, but it's a marvelous pedestrian friendly mix of shopping, business, housing, breweries, restaurants and one of the hippest and most vibrant food halls on the West Coast. And it continues to flourish with more restaurants, housing and offerings moving in
I think the Anaheim planners know that Harbor Blvd. past Disneyland has always been an 8 lane major thoroughfare connected directly to the main 16 lane freeway through SoCal, and you aren't going to be able to create some wonderful Victorian streetscape out of it. The best you can do is keep the place clean and nicely landscaped, and get all those pedestrians with sore feet out of the way of all those cars that aren't going anywhere.
thequirkysarah
Active Member
Ah! This is where the misunderstanding was. I've seen it claimed a few places that there would still be a pedestrian entrance off of Harbor (with a security checkpoint, or course). If they are indeed trying to funnel everyone into their new security checkpoint and bridge then it makes a lot more sense. I still think it is not the best routing, but I understand what Disney is trying to accomplish.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
TP2000, Disney has publicly stated in the OC Register and through HoJo's that a "security" check will still exist on the west side of Harbor.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disney-725945-harbor-bridge.html
>>
Q. Will visitors staying at nearby non-Disney hotels be forced to walk around to the Eastern Gateway transit facility on Manchester Avenue to get to the Disneyland Resort?
A. Guests staying in the hotels or motels on Harbor will be able to access the resort without going through the Eastern Gateway. The plans are still being developed but there will be another entrance with a security point for those entering on Harbor.<<
So what does that really mean. The educated guess, since the west side conversion hasn't been decided yet by Disney, is that a small Security check will be near the base of the western Bridge ramp. Those using the Toy Story new shuttle drop off, and those heading southbound on the sidewalk from Manchester will be the users of this gate, and will be designed for the much smaller expected traffic.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/disney-725945-harbor-bridge.html
>>
Q. Will visitors staying at nearby non-Disney hotels be forced to walk around to the Eastern Gateway transit facility on Manchester Avenue to get to the Disneyland Resort?
A. Guests staying in the hotels or motels on Harbor will be able to access the resort without going through the Eastern Gateway. The plans are still being developed but there will be another entrance with a security point for those entering on Harbor.<<
So what does that really mean. The educated guess, since the west side conversion hasn't been decided yet by Disney, is that a small Security check will be near the base of the western Bridge ramp. Those using the Toy Story new shuttle drop off, and those heading southbound on the sidewalk from Manchester will be the users of this gate, and will be designed for the much smaller expected traffic.
D
Deleted member 107043
Good to know! The city certainty doesn't have a reputation in other parts of the state for having pedestrian friendly walkable areas, especially ones tourists would be interested in visiting.
In 2000 they made some dramatic changes to the streetscapes surrounding Disneyland that have greatly improved the vibe of the area for both cars and pedestrians. All I'm asking is why not continue to enhance the area for foot traffic to and from DL along Harbor rather than make it more convoluted? Again, I don't see how this pedestrian plan benefits anyone involved or makes the Anaheim Resort District better.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Well, I think you need to go to "Disney Spokesperson language" school, I have earned my masters degree after decades of dealing with them.
Lets go back to the OC Register article I just linked to.
>>
Q. Will people walking on Harbor have access to the pedestrian bridge linking the new transportation hub with the theme parks, similar to the bridges that connect some hotels in Las Vegas?
A. There will not be a direct access to the pedestrian connector or bridge from Harbor. However, visitors can use a pedestrian pathway at Harbor and Disney Way directly to the Eastern Gateway.<<
Note, if you read carefully, that is the new pathway planned under the power lines to the new entrance next to Pummba.
Disney has multiple checks on its statements, including lawyers, and experts on spin.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Hans, lets look at the current situation, the current Transportation Hub and main Pedestrian Entrance is a joke, and not well themed, you are basically walking through a bunch of bus stops to get to security. And the walk down Harbor, especially the East side is like walking in a strip mall.
The new plan has a nice themed pathway from the corner of Harbor and Disney Way to a nice new Pedestrian Entrance, and designed to avoid walking though the bus stops, and should be much better themed than the current one. Wider pathways, safer due to a lack of driveways and a nicer security area than the current version. Then a themed bridge with blockage built in, similar to the DtD Disneyland Drive bridge.
Alas, there is nothing you can really do to improve the east side of Harbor sidewalk, due to lack of control due to the multiple businesses located next to it.
The new plan has a nice themed pathway from the corner of Harbor and Disney Way to a nice new Pedestrian Entrance, and designed to avoid walking though the bus stops, and should be much better themed than the current one. Wider pathways, safer due to a lack of driveways and a nicer security area than the current version. Then a themed bridge with blockage built in, similar to the DtD Disneyland Drive bridge.
Alas, there is nothing you can really do to improve the east side of Harbor sidewalk, due to lack of control due to the multiple businesses located next to it.
LongLiveTheKing
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that the only crosswalks to remain will be on Manchester and Disney Way and that the sky bridge will be at the Pumba Lot. You can actually type Disney Way and Harbor or Pumba lot into google maps to see where they're actually going to be and get a better idea of the distance.
If I had to guess, I think there will be one for the Harbor access. They have to have some sort of security gate for the ADA folks that are going to be shuttled to Harbor. That will address the concerns about disabled persons and their family forced to hike over the pedestrian bridge.
But I'm betting that they will be doing their best to not make this a major entry by doing away with those cross walks as you described and limited security staffing.
Old Mouseketeer
Well-Known Member
But that's outrageous. The hike from the bus stops at Harbor and Ball into the Harbor CM lot to the CM shuttle stop is yet another hardship for minimum-wage CMs. This is ridiculous. Closing the city bus stops on Harbor close to Harbor Point is absurd.
Old Mouseketeer
Well-Known Member
I have a problem with the numbers here. There is already a permit for a CM lot on Anaheim Way and the land has been cleared. This would ostensibly be replacement for CM parking in Pumbaa.
But I have issues with your conjecture about Simba and Ball Lots. Are you positing that a structure at Harbor Lot will replace CM parking in those? But what will mitigate the lost parking while H-Lot is closed for construction. Do you really expect them to force CMs from all three hotels to shuttle in from H-lot, along with CMs in DL Park on the NW side? This covers everything from Critter Country to the future SWL, TT, and various Entertainment and Facilities departments.
Combined with the possibility of closing the Harbor bus stops, this is a hot steaming manure dump on CMs. If the economy continues to improve and Disney returns to the massive turnover rates and high CM vacancies of 10-15 years ago, the last thing they need to do is further degrade the CM experience.
Darkbeer1
Well-Known Member
Sorry you feel that way, but this project, and many other related ones, are designed for everyone, but Disney is looking at Guests first.
Moving CM Parking farther away to allow closer guest parking. How does the CM's that are being forced to park at Angel Stadium feel now?
The city is trying to improve traffic flow for everyone. Maybe Disney will opt for a CM Shuttle just for bus CM's at the new Transportation Hub Stop?
We are looking forward, and based on someone who works with OCTA for the city of Anaheim, there are preliminary plans in place for a study the impact of the route change.
And what do the CM's that take OCTA route 50 do now? As I understand it, exit at Clementine and walk to the Katella CM lot and its shuttle.
Old Mouseketeer
Well-Known Member
Generally, screwed, I believe.
That's a much more reasonable distance than what you are suggesting for H-Lot.
D
Deleted member 107043
I agree. The logistics around this thing as we know it sucks unless you're a customer arriving to the property by car or in a shuttle.