New Disneyland Parking Garage and Transportation Hub

[JD2000]

All these plans look very similar to the old plans for the west side; unfortunate Westcot itself was never build.

 

[choco choco]

But the motivations around the security changes were not due to the new people from the east. They were overall site design changes aimed at changing people flows and where they congregated and are held, etc. moving the boundary outward and diffusing the people movement seem totally abandoned now... and the existing security constraints at the monorail and dtd seem to get worse.

Seems very disjointed... either that voice at the table was beat down... or there could be more to come yet...

The Eastern Gateway project was always about more parking, there never were any real security requirements. This is why I made the argument months ago that I thought the Eastern Gateway project's security checkpoint was poorly located (I recall you and I had this exact discussion and disagreement about it). They (Disney) shouldn't have pretended that security was any sort of motivating factor for either the project or many of its dubious design choices.

There still aren't any real security requirements. I remain firmly convinced that the security checkpoint is mainly for peace of mind for the guests, and doesn't contribute much to the actual safety of the Resort area.

 

[Curious Constance]

So Rainforest Cafe is going bye bye?

That's heartbreaking for my family.

 

[SSG]

So Rainforest Cafe is going bye bye?

That's heartbreaking for my family.

According to Wikipedia, Rainforest Cafe has more 'former' than 'current' locations, which is usually not a good sign.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Eventually they'll need to plan for large numbers of guests getting dropped off by their self-driving cars, then sending their cars off to park themselves somewhere further away. I wonder if they are thinking about that?

No. I bet that never occurred to them and never will until at least fifteen years after that becomes common place.

By that time, a good chunk of people, especially those who live in cities won't be owning cars, but instead they'll be signed up for a AI Car Service that will send a car to drive you to your location. Sort of like a driver-less Uber/Lyft. So, once your AI Taxi has dropped you off, it will zoom off to pick up the next customer.

 

[BrianLo]

100% I primarily care about the fact that parking was gridlocking park expansion. At least that can finally move ahead and create a better long term plan for the Eastern Gateway and subsequent corridor to the Toy Story lot.

The hold up in parking spaces was doing no one any favours. Disney, CM's, guests or Anaheim.

I was worried Disney was about to wash their hands and stall/cancel everything. Clearly someone is motivated in the company to start addressing issues.

 

[choco choco]

By and large, I like this plan much more than the Eastern Gateway (heretofore referred to as EG). As TP2000 pointed out, there's actually a net gain in parking with this plan compared to the EG, and they get to couple it with the extra revenue that the hotel will bring in. So this may actually end up being a cheaper project that improves resort operations while still bringing in higher profit margins. I am huge on land use, and this seems a much better use of land.

The most interesting thing now is to see what Disney does with all that land originally planned for the EG. Somebody here already suggested it should go to employee parking, but I'll take it a step further. Not only should it go to employee parking, but Disney should consider relocating a couple of backstage spaces into what is currently the shuttle transit area and linking that to the EG employee parking. This could conceivably create a shared backstage area with direct access to both parks, leading to a more efficient use of land by eliminating facilities that are, right now because of distance, redundant in both parks. Things like dressing rooms and break rooms for Main Street and Buena Vista street could be shared, for instance, or food and merchandise warehousing. This potentially frees up room for more theme park acreage on the northern parts of Disneyland and the southern parts of DCA. Again, it's all about better use of land.

 

[disneylandcm]

By and large, I like this plan much more than the Eastern Gateway (heretofore referred to as EG). As TP2000 pointed out, there's actually a net gain in parking with this plan compared to the EG, and they get to couple it with the extra revenue that the hotel will bring in. So this may actually end up being a cheaper project that improves resort operations while still bringing in higher profit margins. I am huge on land use, and this seems a much better use of land.

The most interesting thing now is to see what Disney does with all that land originally planned for the EG. Somebody here already suggested it should go to employee parking, but I'll take it a step further. Not only should it go to employee parking, but Disney should consider relocating a couple of backstage spaces into what is currently the shuttle transit area and linking that to the EG employee parking. This could conceivably create a shared backstage area with direct access to both parks, leading to a more efficient use of land by eliminating facilities that are, right now because of distance, redundant in both parks. Things like dressing rooms and break rooms for Main Street and Buena Vista street could be shared, for instance, or food and merchandise warehousing. This potentially frees up room for more theme park acreage on the northern parts of Disneyland and the southern parts of DCA. Again, it's all about better use of land.

I’m in complete agreement about locating CM parking and costume services at the former EG location. A long while back I heard rumors that TDA could be razed for park expansion. If they turned that property into a Cast complex a new TDA would fit right in.

 

[jocarol]

By that time, a good chunk of people, especially those who live in cities won't be owning cars, but instead they'll be signed up for a AI Car Service that will send a car to drive you to your location. Sort of like a driver-less Uber/Lyft. So, once your AI Taxi has dropped you off, it will zoom off to pick up the next customer.

That's good because otherwise people would tell their cars to just drive around empty all day rather than pay for parking.

 

[asianway]

Too easy for Disney to sell it as a perk and be self serving to limit the demand at the same time. Do nothing and 'win' - perfect Disney solution

There is precedence for this - in the early 2000s when they were down to one working monorail, only resort guests could board at DTD

 

[dweezil78]

Re: no more trams... If there's no more trams, then there is no more tram lane, which means -- in theory -- they could create a bridge over Disneyland Dr. right at the garages and use the old tram route as a walkway right into the esplanade. I would hope they'd consider this vs. forcing everyone walk to the hotels and then thru DTD just to get to the parks when there's a much more direct way of this.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Do it like Universal Orlando and have moving walkways connecting the parking garage to the Citywalk, or Citywalk ripoff. I love that setup.

 

[Darkbeer1]

Re: no more trams... If there's no more trams, then there is no more tram lane, which means -- in theory -- they could create a bridge over Disneyland Dr. right at the garages and use the old tram route as a walkway right into the esplanade. I would hope they'd consider this vs. forcing everyone walk to the hotels and then thru DTD just to get to the parks when there's a much more direct way of this.

No need for abridge, it is already there, have everyone come to the ground level from both garages as they do now, have security check on the west side of Disneyland Drive, then have guests walk under Disneyland Dr where the trams go now, and enter a themed walkway to Downtown Disney, which can be enlarged so the pathway seems shorter. Nice wide path that can handle large crowds including wheelchairs and strollers. Maybe even place a Stroller rental stand next to the security check, to help those who need it with the walk.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

So Rainforest Cafe is going bye bye?

That's heartbreaking for my family.

Ironically, the restaurant will likely suffer the same fate as the real rainforest...

 

[dweezil78]

No need for abridge, it is already there, have everyone come to the ground level from both garages as they do now, have security check on the west side of Disneyland Drive, then have guests walk under Disneyland Dr where the trams go now, and enter a themed walkway to Downtown Disney, which can be enlarged so the pathway seems shorter. Nice wide path that can handle large crowds including wheelchairs and strollers. Maybe even place a Stroller rental stand next to the security check, to help those who need it with the walk.

Oh duh, of course... Sorry, this is what happens when I try to think about this stuff at work haha! Literally just follow the path of the tram. Easy.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

The most interesting thing now is to see what Disney does with all that land originally planned for the EG. Somebody here already suggested it should go to employee parking, but I'll take it a step further. Not only should it go to employee parking, but Disney should consider relocating a couple of backstage spaces into what is currently the shuttle transit area and linking that to the EG employee parking. This could conceivably create a shared backstage area with direct access to both parks, leading to a more efficient use of land by eliminating facilities that are, right now because of distance, redundant in both parks. Things like dressing rooms and break rooms for Main Street and Buena Vista street could be shared, for instance, or food and merchandise warehousing.

Good point. Tokyo Disneyland, which is also short on space, is situated as$ to ankles with respect to DisneySea. The DLP parks are also adjacent, but I don't think they really share backstage areas.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

So I've been playing around with scribble maps trying to interpret Disney's game plan. Hopefully, I'll present the entire map this weekend. But while everyone's talking about the fate of the trams, I have a pretty good guess.

"To clear up the daily congestion that happens along Ball Road, once visitors enter the fly by ramp, Disney will add six additional lanes to its current 10 lanes to help flow cars quicker into either parking lot." -OC Register

Well, here's the ramp. It's a major artery for arriving guests. Where do the six new lanes go?

Star Wars Land is directly up against one side of the ramp, and adding lanes to that lot on the other side wouldn't provide access to the new lot. For those unfamiliar, the tram actually enters the pick up area by curving into the Mickey and Friends structure to complete a U turn. So there's already a road in the corner of the bottom level. The 6 new lanes could split off from the 10 lanes that enter the M&F structure by weaving under the left-bound side of the Disneyland Drive ramp that intersects Magic Way. The new lanes could then enter the bottom level of M&F and utilize an extension of the current set of toll booths. Then, the current toll booth set up (expanded for the new capacity obviously) could feed into M&F proper (the upper levels) by turning right, or the new structure by turning left.

A sketch:

Removing the trams may be both desirable, and necessary, to accomplish what the OC Register describes.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

OK, folks, let's get real.

First of all, the most they can achieve in downsizing backstage and CM facilities on the main resort property (Harbor, Katella, DL Drive, Ball Rd.) is 10-20%. They're not going to demolish TDA. They're not going to remove any more backstage facilities North of SWL/Toontown because of the fireworks fallout zone. They're not going to move CM costuming, entertainment costuming, or dressing to the EG area. I know people in those departments and that's simply not viable.

The biggest reason I see this parking plan as a poison pill on Disney's part is that it makes the traffic situation untenable. Even if you assume that ALL visitors driving north on I-5 park at Toy Story (which will never happen--just look at the westbound traffic jam on Ball Rd. westbound from Harbor) they will not have the capacity and there will still be too many people getting off at Harbor and turning left on Ball. Add to this the traffic being rerouted from the filled Toy Story lot. Maybe they can take over Katella CM lot and improve services there, adding CM parking to the now demolished lot north of Pumbaa and east of the closed Carousel motel. But that's not going to offset losing the Katella CM lot.

As for the M&F trams, they're dead. They are already terminally dysfunctional at opening and closing and can't handle the increase of 6500 spaces. There are proven alternatives.

Airport shuttles (peoplemovers that don't have a moving load platform) have known capacities. SFO, ATL, and MCO come to mind. Big sliding doors allow egress on one side and loading on the other. Wheelchairs and strollers load with the crowd. The stations at each end can look like a dinner fork--multiple docking stations.

A revised tram system could work if you can loop the ends like the current trams, but add side guide wheels to bring the redesigned trams tightly into the station, they could load "at grade" like an airport shuttle, but eliminate the need for a track and use the cheaper (existing) roadway. I think this type of system is in use somewhere. It might not allow standing because trams are less smooth than a hard rail system, but it would increase capacity by making the load time shorter, provided they could implement entering on one side and exiting on the other.

Universal Studios has a demonstrated track record with moving sidewalks in Orlando. This is measurable and can be analyzed.

They're going to have to do something different. But the fact that Disney has been mute on this subject suggests to me that what they have announced so far is mostly a shot across the bow of Anaheim and the Harbor business.

I could be wrong about all this (I have been before), but I think I'm close to the mark. Granted, we're trying to read the proverbial tea leaves. I just feel that what Disney is doing or saying on the surface isn't exactly the game in play.

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

So I've been playing around with scribble maps trying to interpret Disney's game plan. Hopefully, I'll present the entire map this weekend. But while everyone's talking about the fate of the trams, I have a pretty good guess.

"To clear up the daily congestion that happens along Ball Road, once visitors enter the fly by ramp, Disney will add six additional lanes to its current 10 lanes to help flow cars quicker into either parking lot." -OC Register

Well, here's the ramp. It's a major artery for arriving guests. Where do the six new lanes go?

Star Wars Land is directly up against one side of the ramp, and adding lanes to that lot on the other side wouldn't provide access to the new lot. For those unfamiliar, the tram actually enters the pick up area by curving into the Mickey and Friends structure to complete a U turn. So there's already a road in the corner of the bottom level. The 6 new lanes could split off from the 10 lanes that enter the M&F structure by weaving under the left-bound side of the Disneyland Drive ramp that intersects Magic Way. The new lanes could then enter the bottom level of M&F and utilize an extension of the current set of toll booths. Then, the current toll booth set up (expanded for the new capacity obviously) could feed into M&F proper (the upper levels) by turning right, or the new structure by turning left.

A sketch:

Removing the trams may be both desirable, and necessary, to accomplish what the OC Register describes.

I think that would appear to be the easiest solution, but it neglects the whole exit route down the ramp on the south side of the entrance lanes that go onto DL Drive.

My guess is that they want to expand to the right (north) as the lanes divide to enter the M&F structure. In your first photo, the building under the caption "West Pl." is the new emergency command post that was built within the last three or four years. What your photo doesn't show is the new K-9 unit facility and APD substation trailers to the north and east. It would make more sense to route the incoming traffic into the northern portion of M&F. It would be tight and somewhat awkward, but doable. And they would have to rebuild their new command post. Ooopsie!

 

[Old Mouseketeer]

My biggest concern about all of this is that I don't see a cohesive plan that spans decades. It looks more to me like yet another bandaid plan. They've been doing this for a long time. The Disney board was bold and decisive with DCA 2.0. While I disagree with their land use at DCA, overall, they set some objectives and largely met them. No, the Imagineers didn't get everything on their placemaking wishlist. But it was more effective than most initiatives.

They had a cogent plan for transportation and parking with DCA 1.0. Traffic from the north would park at M&F and from the south at the unbuilt structure on the Pumbaa lot (former Grand Hotel). The infrastructure for M&F is the evidence of this. It WILL NOT support this new plan. This plan is dead on arrival. It can't work. Where are all those northbound cars on I-5 going to go? Traffic engineers know how to calculate this. I think Disney is playing a dangerous game of brinksmanship aimed at short-term gains at the expense of long-term solutions.