New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[TrainsOfDisney]

Choosing to split up is different from being forced to split up. A major theme of the law and the subsequent standards is to not separate those with disabilities from others.

Agreed - which is why I don’t think the split at security should be legal.

Telling the party of 12 that they cannot ride together because one person in their party is disabled, while the standby party DOES get to ride together no questions asked, is exactly the kind of discrimination the ADA was enacted to fight.

Yes!!! Thank you!

 

[Jrb1979]

Agreed - which is why I don’t think the split at security should be legal.

Yes!!! Thank you!

The majority of other parks limit the party size to 4 for those with disabilities. The fact that Disney let everyone in the group to join the DAS guest goes above and beyond whats necessary

 

[SourcererMark79]

The DAS return times do change based on demand. They’re tied to the standby wait time.

Sure, but is it unreasonable to push out the return times further based on how many DAS are requesting the accomodations? This could ease the number of unaccounted LL availability jamming the E tickets and still allow the accomodations that DAS affords. There is a reason why a set number of G+ times are allowed, why couldn't DAS work in a similar way?

Non DAS guests need to book it to the SB queue of they want to get ahead and ride the most popular attractions. DAS can be booked on your phone, so it's easier too, just that the later into to morning it is, the later the return times push out, like OG FP. The only difference would be that DAS is guaranteed a ride, it wouldn't get full like FP distribution.

 

[Chi84]

Agreed - which is why I don’t think the split at security should be legal.

Yes!!! Thank you!

Don’t confuse legality with simple practice.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Agreed - which is why I don’t think the split at security should be legal.

Splitting parties at security is not unique to the disabled.

Sure, but is it unreasonable to push out the return times further based on how many DAS are requesting the accomodations? This could ease the number of unaccounted LL availability jamming the E tickets and still allow the accomodations that DAS affords. There is a reason why a set number of G+ times are allowed, why couldn't DAS work in a similar way?

Non DAS guests need to book it to the SB queue of they want to get ahead and ride the most popular attractions. DAS can be booked on your phone, so it's easier too, just that the later into to morning it is, the later the return times push out, like OG FP. The only difference would be that DAS is guaranteed a ride, it wouldn't get full like FP distribution.

Yes it is unreasonable because it’s an extra imposition beyond what is applied to others not being accomodated.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Right. And the recourse to correct that is to prevent DAS users from joining another queue which Disney is not doing.

What you were trying to argue is that Disney should be legally allowed to pare down the usage of DAS because the alternative solution, preventing them from joining another queue, was unreasonable and costly (it's not).

How is increasing ride entry staff and touchpoints by more than double not unreasonably costly?

And that this pared down usage should be allowed because having people skip the queue is an unreasonable ask of the business, despite the fact that they sell that same exact service for an additional fee.

And there you have it. They sell a similar service, so how can you think they should have to give it away for free to anyone, let alone large groups or else take on additional ongoing operational costs to stop the abuse?

All if this sounds rather hard to pass through a judge or jury if/when this ends up being litigated.

What is to come of their efforts to convince people to leave DAS behind and rejoin a normal queue is all up in the air right now, but history shows that not much changes in this regard. Their return to queue system might be just as prone to the same type of abuse you are so worried about now.

Maybe we should wait to see what the return-to-queue process is before declaring that.

They have no real way to enforce a rule on what constitutes a family so there is no real change here: there is no limit other than at the CMs discretion.

Immediate family is pretty clear to any reasonable person - parents and children.

 

[StarBright]

Some folks attempting to be the living embodiment of:

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Splitting parties at security is not unique to the disabled.

Yeah, wheelchairs and strollers. Stroller is an option though, where wheelchairs aren’t so it’s still tricky.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yeah, wheelchairs and strollers. Stroller is an option though, where wheelchairs aren’t so it’s still tricky.

Strollers may not be “optional” in that weather

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah, wheelchairs and strollers. Stroller is an option though, where wheelchairs aren’t so it’s still tricky.

And people that get flagged. Exceptions are made for safety, so even if there was a broad rule to keep parties together it would likely not apply at a security check.

 

[flynnibus]

Sure, but is it unreasonable to push out the return times further based on how many DAS are requesting the accomodations?

They do - just slowly. The backup in the high priority queue (G+, LL, and DAS users), causes the low priority queue's estimate to increase... because the low priority will wait even longer when the high priority queue backs up. They will increase the ratio the high priority queue gets to try to relieve the backup.

This could ease the number of unaccounted LL availability jamming the E tickets and still allow the accomodations that DAS affords. There is a reason why a set number of G+ times are allowed, why couldn't DAS work in a similar way?

You have it backwards... both LL and G+ allotments are fixed and can be managed within reason. The problem is the uncontrolled DAS demand. Take a simple example... you want to allocate 100 slots during the time window... You have a model of when people return vs their time slots... so you know if you sell X return times, it will result on average Y people showing up in the time window. If you want to plan for 30% your slots to LL, 50% to G+... and 20% to DAS/other.. then you know how many LL and G+ to sell and keep lines managable.

But now, instead of DAS returns taking up their 20 slots... imagine it balloons and they take 100 slots. You can't turn them away like you do when you stop selling G+ and LL. They clog up the system.

What needs to be done for your question is to set DAS return times based on not just standby's wait, but what the high priority queue's commitments are (including DAS return times) during the same period. This could mean DAS usage causing other DAS users to get longer return times than what just standby is estimated at now. That would allow the system to adapt quicker than just tracking to standby waits.

 

[SourcererMark79]

They do - just slowly. The backup in the high priority queue (G+, LL, and DAS users), causes the low priority queue's estimate to increase... because the low priority will wait even longer when the high priority queue backs up. They will increase the ratio the high priority queue gets to try to relieve the backup.



You have it backwards... both LL and G+ allotments are fixed and can be managed within reason. The problem is the uncontrolled DAS demand. Take a simple example... you want to allocate 100 slots during the time window... You have a model of when people return vs their time slots... so you know if you sell X return times, it will result on average Y people showing up in the time window. If you want to plan for 30% your slots to LL, 50% to G+... and 20% to DAS/other.. then you know how many LL and G+ to sell and keep lines managable.

But now, instead of DAS returns taking up their 20 slots... imagine it balloons and they take 100 slots. You can't turn them away like you do when you stop selling G+ and LL. They clog up the system.

What needs to be done for your question is to set DAS return times based on not just standby's wait, but what the high priority queue's commitments are (including DAS return times) during the same period. This could mean DAS usage causing other DAS users to get longer return times than what just standby is estimated at now. That would allow the system to adapt quicker than just tracking to standby waits.

Let me clarify, and in agreement with you it's the number of DAS guests through the high priority queue that are not accurately accounted for in the initial G+ allotted distribution. Maybe?

 

[Angel Ariel]

The majority of other parks limit the party size to 4 for those with disabilities. The fact that Disney let everyone in the group to join the DAS guest goes above and beyond whats necessary

Disney did have a limit prior to this change - 6 (DAS user + 5). If CMs were routinely approving 12+ people for DAS (for a party that only had 1 DAS user), then that's a training issue on Disney's part.

 

[Katieg3030]

Disney would never deny anyone who wants to pay for something lol & also why should i not be permitted to pay for something just bc i have DAS?

I see lots of issues with the DAS (even though I have an autistic family member that uses it)… but I totally agree with you on this. Because Genie+ is available for all guests to purchase it wouldn’t be legal to tell a guest with disabilities they couldn’t purchase it . That said, I do feel that because the DAS is supposed to be the way for those with certain disabilities to access the standby line… I think it would be okay for Disney to make it so that those using DAS could not wait in another standby line at a different attraction while waiting for their DAS time to return. Since guests without disabilities are unable to wait in two standby lines… but they are able to hold a genie + return and wait standby so that is what the option should be for those with disabilities as well.

 

[Katieg3030]

They do - just slowly. The backup in the high priority queue (G+, LL, and DAS users), causes the low priority queue's estimate to increase... because the low priority will wait even longer when the high priority queue backs up. They will increase the ratio the high priority queue gets to try to relieve the backup.



You have it backwards... both LL and G+ allotments are fixed and can be managed within reason. The problem is the uncontrolled DAS demand. Take a simple example... you want to allocate 100 slots during the time window... You have a model of when people return vs their time slots... so you know if you sell X return times, it will result on average Y people showing up in the time window. If you want to plan for 30% your slots to LL, 50% to G+... and 20% to DAS/other.. then you know how many LL and G+ to sell and keep lines managable.

But now, instead of DAS returns taking up their 20 slots... imagine it balloons and they take 100 slots. You can't turn them away like you do when you stop selling G+ and LL. They clog up the system.

What needs to be done for your question is to set DAS return times based on not just standby's wait, but what the high priority queue's commitments are (including DAS return times) during the same period. This could mean DAS usage causing other DAS users to get longer return times than what just standby is estimated at now. That would allow the system to adapt quicker than just tracking to standby waits.

In theory, I agree with you… but in reality because DAS acts as a way for disabled guests to enter the standby line, Disney can only require the disabled guest wait as long as the current wait is for the non disabled guests … if they added on additional time to the disabled guests return time, then they are making it more difficult for the guest with special needs to access a good or service that is available for a non disabled guest to walk up and get in line to wait for.
But I know what you mean, and your right… one of the main issues is because Disney cannot account for or know how many will request return times with DAS it is a logistical nightmare when they have already carefully allotted and limited Genie+ ti returns

 

[Katieg3030]

The majority of other parks limit the party size to 4 for those with disabilities. The fact that Disney let everyone in the group to join the DAS guest goes above and beyond whats necessary

Agreed. And honestly, some parks are very strict with their party size. When my nephew was little and attending Hershey park the rule was the disabled guest and 1 other person (or the amount of guests that could fit in one seat or car of the ride) those groups were allowed to use an alternate entrances… if larger groups wanted to ride together then it was a rider swap system where part of the party got in the standby line and the other part could use the alternate entrance when their party made it to the front.

The majority of other parks limit the party size to 4 for those with disabilities. The fact that Disney let everyone in the group to join the DAS guest goes above and beyond whats necessary

 

[ditzee]

No, the law requires "reasonable accommodation." Businesses do not have to give benefits to disabled guests that are not available to others, which is what has happened ed with DAS allowing guests to grab return times and ride other rides while they wait for their return time to arrive.

It DOES matter when 1 group of 12 can go ride Big Thunder while waiting for Haunted Mansion. The DAS party is getting a benefit not provided to other guests. That's the opposite of discrimination. There's a reason why people are abusing the system the way they are. Remember the recent stories about unauthorized tour guides using DAS to give their customers free line skipping?

Limiting the DAS party size is a change.

K, I get the group of 12 - that's crazy. Disney did encourage people to shop, eat, or ride in shorter standby lines. In Nov, we were waiting for our Soarin DAS time and Spaceship Earth had no line. We would have been nuts to skip it.

 

[Chi84]

because DAS acts as a way for disabled guests to enter the standby line, Disney can only require the disabled guest wait as long as the current wait is for the non disabled guests … if they added on additional time to the disabled guests return time, then they are making it more difficult for the guest with special needs to access a good or service that is available for a non disabled guest to walk up and get in line to wait for.

I'm not sure where you're getting this. Disney has to afford disabled guests the opportunity to have something akin to or similar to the experience of non-disabled guests. You're ignoring the fact that Disney allows the disabled guest to enjoy other attractions, etc. while not standing in line. I'm not certain of any requirement that the return time would have to be exactly the same or less.

A business needs to make only reasonable accommodations that are necessary. It is not enough for the disabled guest to show that the accommodation does not eliminate all discomfort or difficulty.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

K, I get the group of 12 - that's crazy. Disney did encourage people to shop, eat, or ride in shorter standby lines. In Nov, we were waiting for our Soarin DAS time and Spaceship Earth had no line. We would have been nuts to skip it.

And that’s perfectly legit based on the policy. But you were on a ride while you were in line for another without paying the upcharge (where you could have been in two “reservations” of sorts and on a ride IF you buy genie)

The issue is nobody without DAS could do that…creating an advantage.

 

[Katieg3030]

Ive already stated this multiple times what the “advantage” is with DAS and people who are willing to pay for Genie. I just dont see how you can deny someone the ability to pay for something others have as well. Ive basically gave a play by play on how to do

Thats fair and i think the reduction from 6 to 4 will help as well for starters but bottom line the 2 pre books need to go asap and this coming from someone who uses DAS

I agree with you if Disney wants the outcome of fewer people in the LL, then limiting the DAS party size is what they need to do. Because the issue is with the groups of 8 or 10 that are using the DAS to enter the LL all at once. And while a small group of 3 might be denied a DAS and then go buy genie + therefore ending up back in the LL… very few groups of 8 and 10 are going to want to purchase Genie + for the entire group.