Rumor New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[lazyboy97o]

You can't discount the age of self-diagnoses for "increasing" disabilities.

In which survey did the CDC use self-diagnosis as a criteria?

 

[DisneyHead123]

Do you honestly think 4 out of every 10 guests is a DAS user or has a DAS user in their party? Gosh I hope not, that’s even worse. I think 8% of the park attendance is DAS and their party.

I just don’t think those numbers make sense. I’ve heard that LL is 80-90% of an attractions capacity, so 8% of park goers are able to use 70% of 80% of all ride capacity in the entire park?

Unless the double-queuing has a huge impact, that would seem to imply that ride capacity is absolutely tiny in general. Whereas if about 40% of people are associated with a DAS party, that seems more reasonable.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

The ADA Standards for Accessible Design require roughly 2% of total capacity be dedicated to things like parking, wheelchair seating and hotel rooms with mobility features. So even if every person with a mobility impairment had no other impairments then you’re not cutting out a huge portion. Those with only mobility impairments already did not qualify for DAS, so that’s even fewer people you will be removing from the system now.

The 27% you are citing includes disabilities like learning, hearing, seeing, other cognitive issues. None of which inherently prohibit someone from waiting in line. The reason autism and other developmental disorders are called out specifically is because these people can become extremely distressed when isolated in a single area for a long time. And historically, at theme parks, that is who has been (rightfully so) afforded the ability to skip the normal standby queue. In fact, I'd argue LL is not nearly enough for many of these folks. But that's besides the point.

And far more than 2% of the population has an ambulatory disability. What an agency requires vs. what's actually needed are two completely different things. One is reality, the other is heavily impacted by politics.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What is confusing me is why is everyone saying it is being abused? We have been told ONLY 8% of guests have DAS. Thats a very low number. How many of that do we think is outright fraud? The % that is being taken up is simply people playing by Disneys rules. Again im pretty sure if we asked people how many DAS users there were % wise. Everyone would have guessed much higher than 8%. Yes i understand party size and everything but from a strict pov of how many people actually have access. 8% is not a high number. Its what Disney allows to happen after being accepted. Ie 2 pre books. Party siZe of 6 and higher in some cases. Booking immediately after tapping in.

That’s why the rules are being tossed out.

Those numbers - if reported correctly - don’t work.

How are 8% or people using up to 74% of capacity

If someone wants DAS fastpasses for anxiety disorder, ADHD, Diabetes, IBS…
They’re gonna hear it.

Disney’s move is starting to make a lot more sense.

And it sucks for everyone…frankly

 

[Hockey89]

Remember, anyone with difficulty hearing or seeing technically has a disability. Point being though, the total number of disabled people really is not relevant since this pass is not afforded to all who are disabled. Not even close, really.

My friend's son has a shortened arm. He still plays hockey, soccer and runs track. He uses the system. The amount of people that use that system which can wait in line is off the charts.... If he can use itm the flood gates are wide open....

 

[MisterPenguin]

And that’s the problem. People keep saying the percentage of guests is way too high without knowing what would actually be appropriate. 27% of the US population has a disability, so 8% of park attendees is less than ⅓ of people with a disability at a place that we know attracts people with disabilities at a higher rate than the general population.

The prevalence of disability has been increasing and will continue to increase, especially due to the population aging. This is going to continue to be a problem and solution can’t be to try and just keep pushing people away from accommodations.

It seems important to always clarify what we mean by a disability.

Accommodations for *rides* have varying levels of accommodation: some rides allow a mobility device; some rides require a transfer; and some rides have no accommodations at all.

But, with DAS, we're focusing on the accommodation for *waiting in line.* And that can be a totally different type of accommodation. E.g., there are those who don't need any accommodation for the ride itself, but they need one to not wait too long in line.

It is plausible that there are those who can wait in line, even though they have some sort of disability. E.g., there are those who can tolerate a long line while in a mobility device. They don't need a DAS accommodation, because they can tolerate the wait. Thus, even though they have a disability, they don't need DAS. But... they might ask for one simply because they presume that DAS is for them because they have some sore of disability.

Then there are those who are frauds and claim they need an accommodation from long lines, when they don't need the accommodation at all. That number seems to have become very problematic.

So, how do we get the right accommodation to the right people for the right circumstance?

The interview is to weed out frauds, and also those who, in good faith, thought the DAS accommodation was for them because of a disability, but, didn't realize it was just for those who can't tolerate long lines.

Now, judging who can tolerate long waits and who can't based on their disability is the real sticky point in this.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I just don’t think those numbers make sense. I’ve heard that LL is 80-90% of an attractions capacity, so 8% of park goers are able to use 70% of 80% of all ride capacity in the entire park?

Unless the double-queuing has a huge impact, that would seem to imply that ride capacity is absolutely tiny in general. Whereas if about 40% of people are associated with a DAS party, that seems more reasonable.

I think you’re thinking fastpass+…

By its end…95% of capacity on some rides were for fastpass. And it was a mess.

It was a “don’t bother if you’re not prebooked” scenario. And for rides in a park that charged you $125 to get in that guaranteed you nothing…it didn’t work.

So now it’s worse…and the reason hasn’t changed

They don’t have enough seat capacity to move people around…
Say it real slowly. It’s the truth

 

[Drdcm]

What is the appropriate percentage based on the prevalence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

If you want a physician perspective, of the people who have disabilities, the percentage that would require this kind of accommodation is pretty low. I’d say less than 10% of all the people I see with disabilities would have one that prevents them from waiting in a line.

Of the 27% of the population, the vast most common is mobility and dementia which accounts to about 1/3 of all disabilities. Next is depression, and then follows other things…

Now specifically ASD and ADHD, the total
prevalence is close to 10%, for adhd probably 1/20 need a school accommodation if they are treated… if they aren’t treated I have no idea. For autism, prevalence is 2% and need for accommodation like this is probably closer to 50%. So, for those two diagnoses the accommodation rate would be like 1.1% compared to the general population.

If I had to make my best guess estimate of people attending Disney, I would say that 2-5% seems about what I would expect.

Edit: here’s a link about disability breakdowns in the US. https://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/disabilityandhealth/infographic-disability-impacts-all.html

 

[lazyboy97o]

The 27% you are citing includes disabilities like learning, hearing, seeing, other cognitive issues. None of which inherently prohibit someone from waiting in line. The reason autism and other developmental disorders are called out specifically is because these people can become extremely distressed when isolated in a single area for a long time. And historically, at theme parks, that is who has been (rightfully so) afforded the ability to skip the normal standby queue.

It seems important to always clarify what we mean by a disability.

Accommodations for *rides* have varying levels of accommodation: some rides allow a mobility device; some rides require a transfer; and some rides have no accommodations at all.

But, with DAS, we're focusing on the accommodation for *waiting in line.* And that can be a totally different type of accommodation. E.g., there are those who don't need any accommodation for the ride itself, but they need one to not wait too long in line.

It is plausible that there are those who can wait in line, even though they have some sort of disability. E.g., there are those who can tolerate a long line while in a mobility device. They don't need a DAS accommodation, because they can tolerate the wait. Thus, even though they have a disability, they don't need DAS. But... they might ask for one simply because they presume that DAS is for them because they have some sore of disability.

Then there are those who are frauds and claim they need an accommodation from long lines, when they don't need the accommodation at all. That number seems to have become very problematic.

So, how do we get the right accommodation to the right people for the right circumstance?

The interview is to weed out frauds, and also those who, in good faith, thought the DAS accommodation was for them because of a disability, but, didn't realize it was just for those who can't tolerate long lines.

Now, judging who can tolerate long waits and who can't based on their disability is the real sticky point in this.

I am aware, which is why I pointed out that we’re looking at about ⅓ of people with disabilities. In children, up to 17% have been diagnosed with a developmental disability. Even with things like parking and seating, where there are established standards, people underestimate the prevalence of disabilities and constantly try to provide less.

 

[Touchdown]

I just don’t think those numbers make sense. I’ve heard that LL is 80-90% of an attractions capacity, so 8% of park goers are able to use 70% of 80% of all ride capacity in the entire park?

Unless the double-queuing has a huge impact, that would seem to imply that ride capacity is absolutely tiny in general. Whereas if about 40% of people are associated with a DAS party, that seems more reasonable.

Let’s do the math. I’m going to make it easier, let’s bump up DAS users to 10% and keep their use at 70% capacity. That means a DAS user gets on 7x more rides than the “family from Denver.” That family gets on 4-6 rides the entire day, and over a 10 hour day means averaging a ride every 2 hours. That would mean DAS guests would be riding 28-42 rides a day, or 3-4 rides an hour. Now some guests are doing more then others and some aren’t there the whole day but averaging 3-4 rides an hour assuming you have a DAS access all set to go for one, get a pass for another one within the hour after the ride and then go standby (or also purchased G+) for 1-2 rides while they wait, totally doable, except midday at AK or DHS.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Again, because of the ratios. The attraction capacity is relatively constant - but the high priority queue gets to use more of it. Then you're simply looking at who is in that high priority queue.

Your point about a body in the park ignores that the two groups are not using attractions equally - and their time burned in waits is not the same.

Remember back when you were using FP and getting 12 rides a day vs someone who wasn't and only getting 7 rides a day? Same thing. The FP user has more opportunities because of availability and has the ability to get through attractions faster than the alternative.

Any way you divvy up the lines, saying that 8% of park goers is enough to fill up the majority of the entire park’s ride capacity is very surprising. It doesn’t matter if those 8% are DAS users or Genie users - I find the overall capacity level there a bit shocking. Presumably it only takes about 10% of guests - or 20% if every single person is in two lines at once - to more or less fill up ride capacity. Again, for the entire park!

That may be the case, but I assumed ride capacity was much higher, more in the neighborhood of 40-60% at least. I had no idea it was that low - unless, again, the 8% does not include people traveling with DAS users.

 

[Ayla]

In which survey did the CDC use self-diagnosis as a criteria?

I made no mention of the CDC. Thirteen percent of the US population has a disability (including hearing, vision, cognitive, walking, self-care or independent living difficulties), according to numbers from 2021...all self-reported to the Census Bureau.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Let’s do the math. I’m going to make it easier, let’s bump up DAS users to 10% and keep their use at 70% capacity. That means a DAS user gets on 7x more rides than the “family from Denver.” That family gets on 4-6 rides the entire day, and over a 10 hour day means averaging a ride every 2 hours. That would mean DAS guests would be riding 28-42 rides a day, or 3-4 rides an hour. Now some guests are doing more then others and some aren’t there the whole day but averaging 3-4 rides an hour assuming you have a DAS access all set to go for one, get a pass for another one within the hour after the ride and then go standby (or also purchased G+) for 1-2 rides while they wait, totally doable, except midday at AK or DHS.

Since they are not being offered front-of-the-line service, however, I think that still means ride capacity is tiny. Say every single user is in two lines every single second. So you’ve basically doubled 8% to 16% (although again, that’s unrealistically high). 16% of guests can take up the majority of all ride capacity? I just would have assumed capacity was higher.

 

[flynnibus]

Let’s do the math. I’m going to make it easier, let’s bump up DAS users to 10% and keep their use at 70% capacity. That means a DAS user gets on 7x more rides than the “family from Denver.” That family gets on 4-6 rides the entire day, and over a 10 hour day means averaging a ride every 2 hours. That would mean DAS guests would be riding 28-42 rides a day, or 3-4 rides an hour. Now some guests are doing more then others and some aren’t there the whole day but averaging 3-4 rides an hour assuming you have a DAS access all set to go for one, get a pass for another one within the hour after the ride and then go standby (or also purchased G+) for 1-2 rides while they wait, totally doable, except midday at AK or DHS.

This logic doesn't work because it fails to account for the idea that ride cycles have a minimum time. Your time per attraction is not just a wait time.. it's the time it takes to get through the attraction AND wait time.

No one is riding 42 rides a day Even as a walk-on, you will find it hard to get door to door through most attractions in less than 15mins except the smaller older attractions.

 

[Drdcm]

Any way you divvy up the lines, saying that 8% of park goers is enough to fill up the majority of the entire park’s ride capacity is very surprising. It doesn’t matter if those 8% are DAS users or Genie users - I find the overall capacity level there a bit shocking. Presumably it only takes about 10% of guests - or 20% if every single person is in two lines at once - to more or less fill up ride capacity. Again, for the entire park!

That may be the case, but I assumed ride capacity was much higher, more in the neighborhood of 40-60% at least. I had no idea it was that low - unless, again, the 8% does not include people traveling with DAS users.

Before the last change, 1% was taking up 30% of ride capacity. It was disclosed in the court case when they switched to DAS… at least Len mentioned that a few months ago and intend to trust his data because that’s kind of what he does.

If that was true, 8% taking up 70% is actually weirdly an improvement in terms of people taking up a disproportionate amount of ride capacity.

Also, the ride capacity can’t possibly account for double queuing because they can’t really separate the two. It might actually be even worse than the numbers show. If they are real that is…

Edit: to be clear. I don’t have any suggested solution and am not advocating one way or another. Just explaining the numbers a bit.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Cool. Look forward to seeing you in line with the rest of us.

I’m not sure i understand this sentiment. I’ve always said up thread that A) I’m waiting to see how this all plays out and B) if i can’t do Disney anymore i can’t do Disney anymore. It will be sad, but it’s not remotely the first thing I’ve given up after becoming disabled.

And I’ve also said plenty of times that i see the Numbers and agree there needs to be a change.

 

[Touchdown]

This logic doesn't work because it fails to account for the idea that ride cycles have a minimum time. Your time per attraction is not just a wait time.. it's the time it takes to get through the attraction AND wait time.

No one is riding 42 rides a day Even as a walk-on, you will find it hard to get door to door through most attractions in less than 15mins except the smaller older attractions.

I don’t know, I’ve gotten 20+ rides in just being there for a holiday party, 8 hours and I spend 90 min with the entertainment.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

people underestimate the prevalence of disabilities and constantly try to provide less.

Totally and absolutely true. In this case though, we're really just debating the number who need this specific accommodation; not how many need an accommodation of some sort though.

 

[JGamer]

Any way you divvy up the lines, saying that 8% of park goers is enough to fill up the majority of the entire park’s ride capacity is very surprising. It doesn’t matter if those 8% are DAS users or Genie users - I find the overall capacity level there a bit shocking. Presumably it only takes about 10% of guests - or 20% if every single person is in two lines at once - to more or less fill up ride capacity. Again, for the entire park!

That may be the case, but I assumed ride capacity was much higher, more in the neighborhood of 40-60% at least. I had no idea it was that low - unless, again, the 8% does not include people traveling with DAS users.

It isn't 8% of park goers. The 8% have the DAS and then their total party size needs to be taken into account. A party of 4 immediatlely gets you to 32% of the park capacity. That is 1/3 of total guests in the park are attached to a DAS in some form.

You should be extrapolating all numbers based on that, not 8%.

 

[phillip9698]

And that’s the problem. People keep saying the percentage of guests is way too high without knowing what would actually be appropriate. 27% of the US population has a disability, so 8% of park attendees is less than ⅓ of people with a disability at a place that we know attracts people with disabilities at a higher rate than the general population.

The prevalence of disability has been increasing and will continue to increase, especially due to the population aging. This is going to continue to be a problem and solution can’t be to try and just keep pushing people away from accommodations.

The solution is a reasonable accommodation, not” accommodate everyone at all costs to their exact level of satisfaction without burdening them in the slightest.”

I don’t understand how so many people become so disabled they can’t stand in a line the moment they enter Disney theme parks. How did they even get to the park? Teleportation? Honestly how did they get there? How did they leave? You telling me you can wait in a stand still line to catch a bus back to the resort, a line that isn’t air conditioned mind you, but you can’t go though an air conditioned themed queue? How are they handling the wait for a show to start? How are they waiting for food? I’m not talking about everyone, I’m talking about the large percentage of people making up the LL queue.

At a certain point it’s not a reasonable accommodation, it’s extreme preferential treatment for any disability.


And honestly some of the things I see and hear people say are just ridiculous. You are saying you need accommodations for a person who is partially blind, hates the dark, can’t stand loud noises, doesn’t like being confined, panics around new people, and isn’t mobile. But you are putting them on a ride which is in the dark, in a confined space, has loud noises, and is full of strangers. Not only that but it isnt enough for them to ride with one other person in the party, they must ride with the entire party at once no matter how large. Good lord! Be honest, at that point is the experience for them, or is it for you.