New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Ayla]

In which survey did the CDC use self-diagnosis as a criteria?

I made no mention of the CDC. Thirteen percent of the US population has a disability (including hearing, vision, cognitive, walking, self-care or independent living difficulties), according to numbers from 2021...all self-reported to the Census Bureau.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Let’s do the math. I’m going to make it easier, let’s bump up DAS users to 10% and keep their use at 70% capacity. That means a DAS user gets on 7x more rides than the “family from Denver.” That family gets on 4-6 rides the entire day, and over a 10 hour day means averaging a ride every 2 hours. That would mean DAS guests would be riding 28-42 rides a day, or 3-4 rides an hour. Now some guests are doing more then others and some aren’t there the whole day but averaging 3-4 rides an hour assuming you have a DAS access all set to go for one, get a pass for another one within the hour after the ride and then go standby (or also purchased G+) for 1-2 rides while they wait, totally doable, except midday at AK or DHS.

Since they are not being offered front-of-the-line service, however, I think that still means ride capacity is tiny. Say every single user is in two lines every single second. So you’ve basically doubled 8% to 16% (although again, that’s unrealistically high). 16% of guests can take up the majority of all ride capacity? I just would have assumed capacity was higher.

 

[flynnibus]

Let’s do the math. I’m going to make it easier, let’s bump up DAS users to 10% and keep their use at 70% capacity. That means a DAS user gets on 7x more rides than the “family from Denver.” That family gets on 4-6 rides the entire day, and over a 10 hour day means averaging a ride every 2 hours. That would mean DAS guests would be riding 28-42 rides a day, or 3-4 rides an hour. Now some guests are doing more then others and some aren’t there the whole day but averaging 3-4 rides an hour assuming you have a DAS access all set to go for one, get a pass for another one within the hour after the ride and then go standby (or also purchased G+) for 1-2 rides while they wait, totally doable, except midday at AK or DHS.

This logic doesn't work because it fails to account for the idea that ride cycles have a minimum time. Your time per attraction is not just a wait time.. it's the time it takes to get through the attraction AND wait time.

No one is riding 42 rides a day Even as a walk-on, you will find it hard to get door to door through most attractions in less than 15mins except the smaller older attractions.

 

[Drdcm]

Any way you divvy up the lines, saying that 8% of park goers is enough to fill up the majority of the entire park’s ride capacity is very surprising. It doesn’t matter if those 8% are DAS users or Genie users - I find the overall capacity level there a bit shocking. Presumably it only takes about 10% of guests - or 20% if every single person is in two lines at once - to more or less fill up ride capacity. Again, for the entire park!

That may be the case, but I assumed ride capacity was much higher, more in the neighborhood of 40-60% at least. I had no idea it was that low - unless, again, the 8% does not include people traveling with DAS users.

Before the last change, 1% was taking up 30% of ride capacity. It was disclosed in the court case when they switched to DAS… at least Len mentioned that a few months ago and intend to trust his data because that’s kind of what he does.

If that was true, 8% taking up 70% is actually weirdly an improvement in terms of people taking up a disproportionate amount of ride capacity.

Also, the ride capacity can’t possibly account for double queuing because they can’t really separate the two. It might actually be even worse than the numbers show. If they are real that is…

Edit: to be clear. I don’t have any suggested solution and am not advocating one way or another. Just explaining the numbers a bit.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Cool. Look forward to seeing you in line with the rest of us.

I’m not sure i understand this sentiment. I’ve always said up thread that A) I’m waiting to see how this all plays out and B) if i can’t do Disney anymore i can’t do Disney anymore. It will be sad, but it’s not remotely the first thing I’ve given up after becoming disabled.

And I’ve also said plenty of times that i see the Numbers and agree there needs to be a change.

 

[Touchdown]

This logic doesn't work because it fails to account for the idea that ride cycles have a minimum time. Your time per attraction is not just a wait time.. it's the time it takes to get through the attraction AND wait time.

No one is riding 42 rides a day Even as a walk-on, you will find it hard to get door to door through most attractions in less than 15mins except the smaller older attractions.

I don’t know, I’ve gotten 20+ rides in just being there for a holiday party, 8 hours and I spend 90 min with the entertainment.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

people underestimate the prevalence of disabilities and constantly try to provide less.

Totally and absolutely true. In this case though, we're really just debating the number who need this specific accommodation; not how many need an accommodation of some sort though.

 

[JGamer]

Any way you divvy up the lines, saying that 8% of park goers is enough to fill up the majority of the entire park’s ride capacity is very surprising. It doesn’t matter if those 8% are DAS users or Genie users - I find the overall capacity level there a bit shocking. Presumably it only takes about 10% of guests - or 20% if every single person is in two lines at once - to more or less fill up ride capacity. Again, for the entire park!

That may be the case, but I assumed ride capacity was much higher, more in the neighborhood of 40-60% at least. I had no idea it was that low - unless, again, the 8% does not include people traveling with DAS users.

It isn't 8% of park goers. The 8% have the DAS and then their total party size needs to be taken into account. A party of 4 immediatlely gets you to 32% of the park capacity. That is 1/3 of total guests in the park are attached to a DAS in some form.

You should be extrapolating all numbers based on that, not 8%.

 

[phillip9698]

And that’s the problem. People keep saying the percentage of guests is way too high without knowing what would actually be appropriate. 27% of the US population has a disability, so 8% of park attendees is less than ⅓ of people with a disability at a place that we know attracts people with disabilities at a higher rate than the general population.

The prevalence of disability has been increasing and will continue to increase, especially due to the population aging. This is going to continue to be a problem and solution can’t be to try and just keep pushing people away from accommodations.

The solution is a reasonable accommodation, not” accommodate everyone at all costs to their exact level of satisfaction without burdening them in the slightest.”

I don’t understand how so many people become so disabled they can’t stand in a line the moment they enter Disney theme parks. How did they even get to the park? Teleportation? Honestly how did they get there? How did they leave? You telling me you can wait in a stand still line to catch a bus back to the resort, a line that isn’t air conditioned mind you, but you can’t go though an air conditioned themed queue? How are they handling the wait for a show to start? How are they waiting for food? I’m not talking about everyone, I’m talking about the large percentage of people making up the LL queue.

At a certain point it’s not a reasonable accommodation, it’s extreme preferential treatment for any disability.


And honestly some of the things I see and hear people say are just ridiculous. You are saying you need accommodations for a person who is partially blind, hates the dark, can’t stand loud noises, doesn’t like being confined, panics around new people, and isn’t mobile. But you are putting them on a ride which is in the dark, in a confined space, has loud noises, and is full of strangers. Not only that but it isnt enough for them to ride with one other person in the party, they must ride with the entire party at once no matter how large. Good lord! Be honest, at that point is the experience for them, or is it for you.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

I think there is a lot of ‘I or a member of my party literally cannot wait in some or all lines without major hardship because X, Y, and Z’ getting mixed in with the people for whom waiting in line would be more time consuming (those who occasionally have to leave it and return), and people who feel as if DAS is intended to improve their whole day and not just provide access to attractions. The last group is I think why this is so emotionally charged. It isn’t intended to make it so a group with one or more members who faces difficulties spending extended hours in the parks gets an “equivalent” experience. The appeals to emotion (“well I would wait 5 extra minutes so somebody with a disability can ride”) are not what this is about at all.

If the numbers we have are anywhere in the ballpark of accurate, I can see why Disney would pull back and focus DAS much more directly on attraction access, who cannot use any other work around, and not the whole park day picture.

 

[DryerLintFan]

What is the appropriate percentage based on the prevalence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

And that’s the problem. People keep saying the percentage of guests is way too high without knowing what would actually be appropriate. 27% of the US population has a disability, so 8% of park attendees is less than ⅓ of people with a disability at a place that we know attracts people with disabilities at a higher rate than the general population.

The prevalence of disability has been increasing and will continue to increase, especially due to the population aging. This is going to continue to be a problem and solution can’t be to try and just keep pushing people away from accommodations.

Having a disability shouldn’t qualify you to skip lines. Having a disability that impacts your ability to wait without moderate to severe discomfort should be accommodated this way. But not everyone with a disability will need that.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Let’s do the math. I’m going to make it easier, let’s bump up DAS users to 10% and keep their use at 70% capacity. That means a DAS user gets on 7x more rides than the “family from Denver.” That family gets on 4-6 rides the entire day, and over a 10 hour day means averaging a ride every 2 hours. That would mean DAS guests would be riding 28-42 rides a day, or 3-4 rides an hour. Now some guests are doing more then others and some aren’t there the whole day but averaging 3-4 rides an hour assuming you have a DAS access all set to go for one, get a pass for another one within the hour after the ride and then go standby (or also purchased G+) for 1-2 rides while they wait, totally doable, except midday at AK or DHS.

This just confused me who is doing 28-42 rides a day?!

Or is that for the whole party? Like for a party of four that would be 7 rides a day?

Sorry, stroke brain. The graph up thread was helpful but not i feel lost again

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am aware, which is why I pointed out that we’re looking at about ⅓ of people with disabilities. In children, up to 17% have been diagnosed with a developmental disability. Even with things like parking and seating, where there are established standards, people underestimate the prevalence of disabilities and constantly try to provide less.

You can say it five more times…the math still ain’t lining up to the working estimate of DAS use/% of ride consumption

 

[DryerLintFan]

It isn't 8% of park goers. The 8% have the DAS and then their total party size needs to be taken into account. A party of 4 immediatlely gets you to 32% of the park capacity. That is 1/3 of total guests in the park are attached to a DAS in some form.

You should be extrapolating all numbers based on that, not 8%.

Wait, so are we saying then that 1/3 of the people in the park are either holding a DAS or has someone in their party holding a DAS?

If that’s the case wouldn’t preventing joining other queues while in a DAS wait almost completely solve the issue?

 

[DisneyHead123]

Before the last change, 1% was taking up 30% of ride capacity. It was disclosed in the court case when they switched to DAS… at least Len mentioned that a few months ago and intend to trust his data because that’s kind of what he does.

That I can see a little more because of the line skip aspect that used to exist, so I assume they meant over the course of a park day and not at any one static point in time. (If they did mean at one static point in time, again, that speaks to surprisingly low ride capacity.)

 

[DryerLintFan]

The solution is a reasonable accommodation, not” accommodate everyone at all costs to their exact level of satisfaction without burdening them in the slightest.”

I don’t understand how so many people become so disabled they can’t stand in a line the moment they enter Disney theme parks. How did they even get to the park? Teleportation? Honestly how did they get there? How did they leave? You telling me you can wait in a stand still line to catch a bus back to the resort, a line that isn’t air conditioned mind you, but you can’t go though an air conditioned themed queue? How are they handling the wait for a show to start? How are they waiting for food? I’m not talking about everyone, I’m talking about the large percentage of people making up the LL queue.

At a certain point it’s not a reasonable accommodation, it’s extreme preferential treatment for any disability.


And honestly some of the things I see and hear people say are just ridiculous. You are saying you need accommodations for a person who is partially blind, hates the dark, can’t stand loud noises, doesn’t like being confined, panics around new people, and isn’t mobile. But you are putting them on a ride which is in the dark, in a confined space, has loud noises, and is full of strangers. Not only that but it isnt enough for them to ride with one other person in the party, they must ride with the entire party at once no matter how large. Good lord! Be honest, at that point is the experience for them, or is it for you.

To be honest i think for a lot people I’ve seen post it’s not always the standing in line that poses the biggest difficulty, its the type of line.

Like, the Jungle Cruise line is outside, and they have fans and the line generally moves steady and quickly, so a line like this might be doable for more people with disabilities than a line like Pirates, next door. That one is enclosed, and while it’s shaded and cool, it’s loud and chaotic and everything echoes and its walls are tight and the line moves a lot slower.

I mean, i can see someone prone to panic attacks having one in the one queue, but not because of the line itself. If that makes sense

 

[DryerLintFan]

That I can see a little more because of the line skip aspect that used to exist, so I assume they meant over the course of a park day and not at any one static point in time. (If they did mean at one static point in time, again, that speaks to surprisingly low ride capacity.)

Ride capacity is a sunk issue. It’s done. What’s done is done. We’re here right now and the problem needs to be fixed within the parameters of what we have now.

But yes, i am also surprised about the low ride capacity, especially given that i was under the impression Disney falsely crowded the parks in slower seasons by running less ride vehicles or closing sides

 

[DisneyHead123]

It isn't 8% of park goers. The 8% have the DAS and then their total party size needs to be taken into account. A party of 4 immediatlely gets you to 32% of the park capacity. That is 1/3 of total guests in the park are attached to a DAS in some form.

You should be extrapolating all numbers based on that, not 8%.

That’s what I was going back and forth about. To me saying 8% is DAS users only makes more sense, as with groups of 5 that could be 40% of park goers.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This will be interesting to watch. Many legitimate folks who previously used it will be blocked from using it and the cheaters will continue to cheat. Cheaters win!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be honest i think for a lot people I’ve seen post it’s not always the standing in line that poses the biggest difficulty, its the type of line.

Like, the Jungle Cruise line is outside, and they have fans and the line generally moves steady and quickly, so a line like this might be doable for more people with disabilities than a line like Pirates, next door. That one is enclosed, and while it’s shaded and cool, it’s loud and chaotic and everything echoes and its walls are tight and the line moves a lot slower.

I mean, i can see someone prone to panic attacks having one in the one queue, but not because of the line itself. If that makes sense

Well this is circular…

But then natural instinct is to wonder why the most crowded amusement parks in the world?

Where do you go in a slow day? The Vegas strip on Saturday night or the nyc subway 10 minutes after the macys parade rolls by?