New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Touchdown]

Posters here are talking about the return to line thing as a reasonable accommodation but how in the heck is this going to work.

We have all been in the Disney lines.

When my Grandpas leg pain becomes unbearable and he needs to get out of line he is suppose to start jumping ropes?

Having exit points won’t work especially with how often there are unforeseen delays causing the line not to move.

I mean if you stop to think about this idea and the lines at Disney it’s becomes clear this isn’t going to work.

Disney is increasing staffing, maybe every line will have attendants like RotR and they can assist. Again let Disney implement their plan before dismissing it out right.

 

[lentesta]

Many of the users here want to discuss whether a guest has a disability and/or what’s a reasonable accommodation to that, while ignoring in this context Disney need only provide such accommodations to the extent they do not “fundamentally” affect their ability to provide services to the public (disabled and not-disabled alike).

It sounds like Disney’s ability to provide those services has been fundamentally altered by the current DAS scheme, and would be even more acute when TBA comes on board.

Along those lines, I was referred to the case in 2022 where Ticketmaster was sued by Taylor Swift fans who claimed Ticketmaster did not do enough to prevent scalpers and bots from buying the ADA-designated seats.

I was told that the DOJ might have pointed Ticketmaster to their Feb 2020 update of the ADA section titled "Prevention of Fraud in Purchase of Tickets for Accessible Venues".

In short, the DOJ guidance is along the lines of "If you have demonstrable proof that the people who need these accommodations are being harmed by fraud, you can take additional steps to prevent that fraud, as long as the end result is that the people needing accommodation are better off than they were before."

I will leave it to your imagination to consider what a multi-billion-dollar transnational company with the resources of a nation/state might be able to collect as "demonstrable proof."

 

[KDM31091]

You have to consider party size. Each DAS user has people with them. So if i get approved for DAS i have my daughter and My partner. Sometimes an aunt. So that’s one person using DAS but four people in the LL.

Now consider that the old cap was 6 people and IT was very loosey goosey. So say i have DAS but i have my 7 immediate family members with ME and 2 cousin’s and they GS allow it. That’s 1 person on DAS but 10 people in the LL

This exactly. To me it’s not fair that one person using DAS equates 10 people in the LL that’s just excessive.

 

[Splash4eva]

Posters here are talking about the return to line thing as a reasonable accommodation but how in the heck is this going to work.

We have all been in the Disney lines.

When my Grandpas leg pain becomes unbearable and he needs to get out of line he is suppose to start jumping ropes?

Having exit points won’t work especially with how often there are unforeseen delays causing the line not to move.

I mean if you stop to think about this idea and the lines at Disney it’s becomes clear this isn’t going to work.

There is zero chance a “return to line” system is gonna work.

 

[Splash4eva]

This exactly. To me it’s not fair that one person using DAS equates 10 people in the LL that’s just excessive.

Agreed and if others in the party want to ride they can easily wait in line granted it be tough to time riding together… again getting rid of the 2 pre books will ease a ton of pain

 

[Ayla]

On average, Bill Gates and I are billionaires.

Who says number-crunchers don't get rich?!

 

[Ayla]

Do we know if Disney adjusts individual LL capacity based on expected DAS demand or if they're totally independent decisions?

Based on the fact the right hand at Disney never knows what the left hand is doing, I'm going with totally independent decisions.

 

[Trauma]

Based on the fact the right hand at Disney never knows what the left hand is doing, I'm going with totally independent decisions.

I feel bad for the cast. If they haven’t started training already this is going to be a disaster in 5 weeks.

 

[KDM31091]

I really don’t see the return to line thing working in any type of scale especially on busy/ crowded queue which is basically any of them. It seems like Disney expects a very small percentage of guests to use that accommodation.

 

[Trauma]

I really don’t see the return to line thing working in any type of scale especially on busy/ crowded queue which is basically any of them. It seems like Disney expects a very small percentage of guests to use that accommodation.

It could be a small percentage because it doesn’t work.

Why use something that doesn’t help with your needs.

 

[wdisney9000]

Im sure this has been pointed out, but i havent had a chamce to catch up on the thread.

The "return to line" concept seems to be very difficult to manage. Will a CM escort you out of the line and then back to where you were in line once you return? How do they account for a variance in the wait time if it increases or decreases while the guest was out of line? Won't other guests in line become curious or frustrated when they see multiple guests being escorted in front of them and ask what's going and then it gives them the idea to try and use DAS as well?

Or will they allow the guest to return through LL entrance? If so, couldn't someone just enter the queue, then leave the line and wait a few minutes then return to LL?

The more moving parts the system has, the more potential issues it will cause. Just a guess.

 

[Grantwil93]

You have to consider party size. Each DAS user has people with them. So if i get approved for DAS i have my daughter and My partner. Sometimes an aunt. So that’s one person using DAS but four people in the LL.

Now consider that the old cap was 6 people and IT was very loosey goosey. So say i have DAS but i have my 7 immediate family members with ME and 2 cousin’s and they GS allow it. That’s 1 person on DAS but 10 people in the LL

Yeah, this is exactly how 10% having passes can turn into 40-70% LL capacity.

Especially parties that get 2 DAS passes to cover everyone and are like 10+ppl

Again, not saying I want ppl not getting what they need. Im 100% for everyone being accommodated in any way they need and having fun. I want any system to achieve exactly that outcome


But, the current system has snowballed to a huge degree that I think not everyone truly grasps. Whether it's the fault of charging for G+ or something else, it needs to be changed or operations legitimately will implode on itself.

 

[jaklgreen]

Genie+ is Fastpass, though. Just without the ability to pre-book in advance. It's almost exactly what MaxPass used to be at Disneyland.

Disney is undercharging for G+ considering Universal charges $200 for their service.

That is not true. With FP, you were not limited to only going on a ride one time, like you do with Genie+. So say someone has a kid that really loves Pirates, but they have been denied the DAS they need, with Genie+, they could only use it once per day for Pirates and then the only other option would be to go in the standby line. That is why Genie+ is not a good alternative to DAS for those who need it.
This is not about the money for many people, but the limitations of Genie+.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Im sure this has been pointed out, but i havent had a chamce to catch up on the thread.

The "return to line" concept seems to be very difficult to manage. Will a CM escort you out of the line and then back to where you were in line once you return? How do they account for a variance in the wait time if it increases or decreases while the guest was out of line? Won't other guests in line become curious or frustrated when they see multiple guests being escorted in front of them and ask what's going and then it gives them the idea to try and use DAS as well?

Or will they allow the guest to return through LL entrance? If so, couldn't someone just enter the queue, then leave the line and wait a few minutes then return to LL?

The more moving parts the system has, the more potential issues it will cause. Just a guess.

1) it is not a part of DAS so nobody needs DAS to use it

2) they likely think this will work because it’s currently used by parents with potty training toddler’s and it works Well because it’s such a small number of users

3) if you can pop out of line with no time limit they may as well use VQs for every ride because that’s more agreeable to pretty much every one rather than waiting in the queue

This can only work if nobody uses it

 

[jaklgreen]

Because it wouldn’t be an automatic DAS for every ride. It woudl be “yeah you can get out of line if you need to but you still need to get in line in the first place.” And there would obviously need to be systems in place to detect/deter abuse. At the very least it would stop the kind of soft DAS abuse that happens every time a DAS user uses DAS for a short line that they could otherwise wait in even if they need it for the longer lines. It wouldn’t prevent all abuse but it would certainly be one way to drive it down. Depending on how complex they can make/staff it, then it could be returns to predetermined points based on timing, not just a return to the merge. I’m not stating this is what they are doing, but I am betting that what they are doing isn’t just some chaotic system people are envisioning here where people are constantly leaving line and then pushing their way back to where they were or back to their party.

That seems extremely complicated. Wouldn't be long before people learn that if you wait 15 minutes into a 70 minute line and then keep "having" to go use the restroom, that you will just be fast tracked to the LL. Then we will be in the same position where people who truly need it are being called scammers.

 

[jaklgreen]

Let me put it this way: I was told on Tuesday night that there was genuine concern that when Tiana's opens in June, a plausible worst-case scenario would require almost 100% of the Lightning Lane line to be dedicated to DAS.

You can imagine the impact to everyone else in the park.

And I was reminded about the ADA: "They're guidelines, not a suicide pact."

Surprised that they are not going VQ for it in the beginning.

 

[jaklgreen]

Even if every single DAS user is telling the absolute truth and qualifies under Disney’s existing system, then it’s still a really big problem that 8-10 percent of users are using 40 - 70 percent of ride capacity. That trend, if it continues, means that the system will collapse. Reasonable accommodations are supposed to put persons with disabilities on even footing with those without. Clearly the current system is not doing that. At the individual level, every DAS user who feels “I’m disabled, and you’re a jerk for not wanting to let me use DAS as it currently exists because it just adds a few minutes to your ride” is missing the point that in the aggregate, it’s not just a few minutes added to a person’s wait, it’s a majority of ride capacity going to a small amount of people. Disney has to find a new equilibrium as the current system is not sustainable. Clearly DAS users are going on far more rides than non-DAS users under the current system. A “return to line” pass option to help reset this equilibrium is a reasonable solution.

They are not using 40-70% of the ride capacity. That number was how many were in the LL, which is a line designed to have a fraction of what the standby line holds. I think you all are misunderstanding the numbers here. And of course there will be DAS users in the line, that is where they are supposed to be. That is like saying that you can't believe that 100% of the cars waiting in line at a car wash are there to get their car's washed. That's THEIR line.

 

[Jrb1979]

They are not using 40-70% of the ride capacity. That number was how many were in the LL, which is a line designed to have a fraction of what the standby line holds. I think you all are misunderstanding the numbers here. And of course there will be DAS users in the line, that is where they are supposed to be. That is like saying that you can't believe that 100% of the cars waiting in line at a car wash are there to get their car's washed. That's THEIR line.

They shouldn't be taking up 40-70% of the LL capacity. Genie+ users should be the majority of users in LL not DAS. That is the problem that everyone ignores. It not just about making DAS users happy but all guests happy. I'm sorry but if I'm paying for Genie+ and my availability is lowered due to DAs users taking the majority of capacity I would be upset.

It's why there has to be a balance.

 

[jaklgreen]

Posters here are talking about the return to line thing as a reasonable accommodation but how in the heck is this going to work.

We have all been in the Disney lines.

When my Grandpas leg pain becomes unbearable and he needs to get out of line he is suppose to start jumping ropes?

Having exit points won’t work especially with how often there are unforeseen delays causing the line not to move.

I mean if you stop to think about this idea and the lines at Disney it’s becomes clear this isn’t going to work.

This is what I am saying. If you are 30 minutes into a 70 minute line, how the heck are you getting out to meet these needs? The whole "excuse me, excuse me" while you hope you don't soil your pants is going to be fun. Then try to find the nearest cast member and explain while you are in your emergency state? It think that the people that came up with this have never had to wait in a line.

 

[DeadyRoosevelt]

They shouldn't be taking up 40-70% of the LL capacity. Genie+ users should be the majority of users in LL not DAS. That is the problem that everyone ignores. It not just about making DAS users happy but all guests happy. I'm sorry but if I'm paying for Genie+ and my availability is lowered due to DAs users taking the majority of capacity I would be upset.

It's why there has to be a balance.

I'm sure I'm missing a consideration or two, but this is why I think the key is to limit the number of people associated with a DAS pass. Perhaps a DAS user can select a "primary" partner on their account. This person can accompany them on all rides, every time. After that, they can choose 2 "secondary" partners from their party (creating a max DAS party size of 4 at any given time). However, the secondary partners can not enter the LL a second time, similar to G+.

This paired with a verification system (that may or may not be legally dubious, I'm still fuzzy on that) could help cut down on DAS capacity and maybe some abuse.

---

Additionally, maybe there could be two types of DAS. Type A for developmental disabilities, and Type B for other disabilities. The difference being Type A offers unlimited LL whereas Type B is more like Genie+. Your DAS party can enter the LL only once per attraction.