New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[lentesta]

So 8 percent to 10 percent of people are using 40 to 70 percent of ride capacity. This actually sounds like a worse situation than what led to the original GAC lawsuit when it was 3 percent of people using 30 percent of capacity.

Let me put it this way: I was told on Tuesday night that there was genuine concern that when Tiana's opens in June, a plausible worst-case scenario would require almost 100% of the Lightning Lane line to be dedicated to DAS.

You can imagine the impact to everyone else in the park.

And I was reminded about the ADA: "They're guidelines, not a suicide pact."

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Let me put it this way: I was told on Tuesday night that there was genuine concern that when Tiana's opens in June, a plausible worst-case scenario would require almost 100% of the Lightning Lane line to be dedicated to DAS.

You can imagine the impact to everyone else in the park.

And I was reminded about the ADA: "They're guidelines, not a suicide pact."

And now the May 20th start date makes a lot of sense. As always, your information and insight is always very valuable.

 

[lazyboy97o]

According to Disney's two numbers, somewhere between 8% and 10% of park-goers have a DAS pass.

But how does that compare to the baseline incidence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

 

[lentesta]

In other words, real economics.

Yeah, you'd think that if the supply of G+ reservations is about to increase substantially, the price should go down.

This isn't a perfect market, obviously:

• Nobody has perfect information on what the actual standby wait is, which impairs decision-making
• Disney holds a monopoly on the supply of G+ reservations within a park
• Even if Universal could be considered "competition", it's like getting hurt far from home: Sure, you could theoretically travel to another location where you know the hospital prices are better. But practically speaking, you can't. And first-timers aren't going to have all that information anyway.

 

[lentesta]

Genuine question. With all this talk about autism and Disney, I do have to ask: Why are people with autism attracted to Disney? This is just an observation of my own, but I have noticed that a lot of Disney fans could be on the spectrum. And it might not just be Disney, but theme parks in general?

I don’t mean any hate with this question. I am genuinely asking. Some friends of mine have always joked with me that I’m on the spectrum, and I have always loved Disney. So, that’s another reason I’m asking. I can’t even answer the question myself. If anyone has any theories, it would be interesting to hear. I tried Googling the question, but didn’t find much.

I was diagnosed as a middle-age adult (we grew up not well off, so paying for doctors appointments for then little-known conditions was not an option when I was a kid). I tell the story of my diagnosis on next week's podcast.

I think the things that appeal to a lot of people, besides the fact that theme parks are fun:

• With enough time, you can understand everything in the bubble. You know where everything is, you know what happens there, and you know what to expect.
• It is endlessly detailed and you can focus on it for yearsssss and still learn things.
• The environment is friendly, non-judgemental, and nobody expects you to sit still for hours, like in school. Heck, you're literally encouraged to get up and dance sometimes.

Obviously, it's going to be different for everyone.

On the day it closed, I got to ride Snow White's Scary Adventures with Ben and his dad, Ron. It was one of Ben's 3,500 rides on that attraction. I got the sense from Ron that the familiarity was very comforting to Ben. (Also, I asked Ron how he managed to pass the time on the ride and he said he imagined it with other characters, like Stitch, to make it go faster.)

ETA: I expect me saying I'm on the spectrum will be exactly zero surprise to anyone who's ever met or heard me.

 

[Happyday]

Sorry to be clear my thought was about Tron, Guardians, the ones with virtual queues, which for rhe most part in the first year of opening most guests can only ride once. But the rerides could be an added on accommodation rather than standard, determined at the interview.

Even with DAS you need to have a virtual que number or pay. I am lost on this conversation.

 

[Happyday]

Do you have any idea of the percentage of wheelchair and ECV returns for Space Mountain? Since they’re all effectively issued a DAS return if they want to ride, that attraction ironically may just see it’s problem exacerbated by pushing more people to mobility aids.

That's a good question. I would like to know that as well. Especially since even without difficulties I can't ride that anymore I used to love Space Mountain it was one of the first coasters I rode. It is way to jerky and hits every joint in my body.

 

[Splash4eva]

According to Disney's two numbers, somewhere between 8% and 10% of park-goers have a DAS pass.

So if the number of DAS users is this low & its tough to argue this % is high by any means it seems like Disney needs to figure a way out to change how the system is allowed to be used not deny people access. As been discussed eliminating 2 pre booked rides is a start. The 10 min wait time will help a little. Also limiting how many can use it in your party which they are doing as well. Can they turn around and say you can only ride something via DAS 2 times? Probably not but imo its something that may be worth trying. Either way i dont know how much “abuse” is happening by people requesting DAS if the % is that low.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

But how does that compare to the baseline incidence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

Even if every single DAS user is telling the absolute truth and qualifies under Disney’s existing system, then it’s still a really big problem that 8-10 percent of users are using 40 - 70 percent of ride capacity. That trend, if it continues, means that the system will collapse. Reasonable accommodations are supposed to put persons with disabilities on even footing with those without. Clearly the current system is not doing that. At the individual level, every DAS user who feels “I’m disabled, and you’re a jerk for not wanting to let me use DAS as it currently exists because it just adds a few minutes to your ride” is missing the point that in the aggregate, it’s not just a few minutes added to a person’s wait, it’s a majority of ride capacity going to a small amount of people. Disney has to find a new equilibrium as the current system is not sustainable. Clearly DAS users are going on far more rides than non-DAS users under the current system. A “return to line” pass option to help reset this equilibrium is a reasonable solution.

 

[DryerLintFan]

Genuine question. With all this talk about autism and Disney, I do have to ask: Why are people with autism attracted to Disney? This is just an observation of my own, but I have noticed that a lot of Disney fans could be on the spectrum. And it might not just be Disney, but theme parks in general?

I don’t mean any hate with this question. I am genuinely asking. Some friends of mine have always joked with me that I’m on the spectrum, and I have always loved Disney. So, that’s another reason I’m asking. I can’t even answer the question myself. If anyone has any theories, it would be interesting to hear. I tried Googling the question, but didn’t find much.

You know what to expect going in. Sure things change slightly, but not enough to throw you

The CMs are SO welcoming and patient, especially the characters.

A lot of people with autism have a developmental age much younger than actual age, so they enjoy the parks like a younger child/person would for longer than a neurotypical might

The accommodations at Disney have been historically helpful for people with autism, so Disney has a reputation as a good place to go

Even if it’s your first visit you can go online and find almost any information you need. You can do ride videos so you know what to expect. There are floor maps to every room in every hotel, some with pictures of the views. Food reviews and event description’s and diagrams of where bathroom’s and benches are. Armed with information like this it’s so much less scary to try be things like a new ride, a new hotel, or even just going to the parks the first time

There are chicken nuggets EVERYWHERE. Like, you don’t have to take your chances at a seafood restaurant at the beach. You know what they’re going to feel like on your teeth and taste like. That’sa huge safety net.

I was diagnosed as a middle-age adult (we grew up not well off, so paying for doctors appointments for then little-known conditions was not an option when I was a kid). I tell the story of my diagnosis on next week's podcast.

I think the things that appeal to a lot of people, besides the fact that theme parks are fun:

• With enough time, you can understand everything in the bubble. You know where everything is, you know what happens there, and you know what to expect.
• It is endlessly detailed and you can focus on it for yearsssss and still learn things.
• The environment is friendly, non-judgemental, and nobody expects you to sit still for hours, like in school. Heck, you're literally encouraged to get up and dance sometimes.

Obviously, it's going to be different for everyone.

On the day it closed, I got to ride Snow White's Scary Adventures with Ben and his dad, Ron. It was one of Ben's 3,500 rides on that attraction. I got the sense from Ron that the familiarity was very comforting to Ben. (Also, I asked Ron how he managed to pass the time on the ride and he said he imagined it with other characters, like Stitch, to make it go faster.)

ETA: I expect me saying I'm on the spectrum will be exactly zero surprise to anyone who's ever met or heard me.

I’m going to try that trick i wish I’d thought about that with Splash. I loved the characters but my kid made me go on it sometimes six times in a day

 

[DryerLintFan]

So if the number of DAS users is this low & its tough to argue this % is high by any means it seems like Disney needs to figure a way out to change how the system is allowed to be used not deny people access. As been discussed eliminating 2 pre booked rides is a start. The 10 min wait time will help a little. Also limiting how many can use it in your party which they are doing as well. Can they turn around and say you can only ride something via DAS 2 times? Probably not but imo its something that may be worth trying. Either way i dont know how much “abuse” is happening by people requesting DAS if the % is that low.

You have to consider party size. Each DAS user has people with them. So if i get approved for DAS i have my daughter and My partner. Sometimes an aunt. So that’s one person using DAS but four people in the LL.

Now consider that the old cap was 6 people and IT was very loosey goosey. So say i have DAS but i have my 7 immediate family members with ME and 2 cousin’s and they GS allow it. That’s 1 person on DAS but 10 people in the LL

 

[lentesta]

But how does that compare to the baseline incidence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

I went over CDC and Social Security numbers in a thread last year. Let me find it.

 

[lentesta]

But how does that compare to the baseline incidence of qualifying disabilities in the general population?

This thread might be helpful. It contains estimates of the US population considered "disabled" by the CDC and Pew Research, along with data from the Social Security Information around the age distribution of those considered disabled.

Obviously, a lot of the disabled are elderly and live alone. That demographic does not visit Walt Disney World very often compare to others. So if Disney says "we're trying to get this down to single-digit use", that probably makes sense.

 

[lentesta]

You have to consider party size. Each DAS user has people with them. So if i get approved for DAS i have my daughter and My partner. Sometimes an aunt. So that’s one person using DAS but four people in the LL.

Now consider that the old cap was 6 people and IT was very loosey goosey. So say i have DAS but i have my 7 immediate family members with ME and 2 cousin’s and they GS allow it. That’s 1 person on DAS but 10 people in the LL

The kids call this a "multiplier effect." You know how those dang kids are with their lingo. Always trying to be cool.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Disney needs to figure a way out to change how the system is allowed to be used not deny people access

That’s exactly what they’re doing by creating a system that allows people to take breaks and then return to line. And those people then necessarily no longer need a full line-skip system as their needs have been met.

 

[lentesta]

Please note that these are average times, not times for specific days during a specific time frame. So, the times could be less than 12 minutes - even 0 - and more than 17 minutes - even 20+

On average, Bill Gates and I are billionaires.

 

[Splash4eva]

You have to consider party size. Each DAS user has people with them. So if i get approved for DAS i have my daughter and My partner. Sometimes an aunt. So that’s one person using DAS but four people in the LL.

Now consider that the old cap was 6 people and IT was very loosey goosey. So say i have DAS but i have my 7 immediate family members with ME and 2 cousin’s and they GS allow it. That’s 1 person on DAS but 10 people in the LL

I have DAS and fully understand how it works. All im saying is the number being so low indicates to me “abuse” by being granted access to the system is NOT the issue at hand. Its the rules surrounding it. Ie party size pre booked rides etx. So Disney could have simply started to fix this problem by limiting guests and eliminating pre books to start not look to cause this uproar and reinvent the wheel and again maybe look to limit how many times a day one can ride.

 

[Doberge]

Do we know if Disney adjusts individual LL capacity based on expected DAS demand or if they're totally independent decisions?

 

[Splash4eva]

That’s exactly what they’re doing by creating a system that allows people to take breaks and then return to line. And those people then necessarily no longer need a full line-skip system as their needs have been met.

The amount of inconvenience and confusion and just plain aggravation that will cause to me will not be worth doing what they are looking to do if the % is this low. What happens when 20 people need to leave the line and just think now someone has to say. Find the nearest bathroom or find the nearest resting spot or shaded area whatever the reason. Makes no sense. Just my thoughts.

 

[Tha Realest]

Let me put it this way: I was told on Tuesday night that there was genuine concern that when Tiana's opens in June, a plausible worst-case scenario would require almost 100% of the Lightning Lane line to be dedicated to DAS.

You can imagine the impact to everyone else in the park.

And I was reminded about the ADA: "They're guidelines, not a suicide pact."

Many of the users here want to discuss whether a guest has a disability and/or what’s a reasonable accommodation to that, while ignoring in this context Disney need only provide such accommodations to the extent they do not “fundamentally” affect their ability to provide services to the public (disabled and not-disabled alike).

It sounds like Disney’s ability to provide those services has been fundamentally altered by the current DAS scheme, and would be even more acute when TBA comes on board.