New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Splash4eva]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the 10 minute rule again?

When using DAS you use to be able to book another ride once tapping in. Now you have to wait 10 minutes before getting another one

 

[DisDude33]

When using DAS you use to be able to book another ride once tapping in. Now you have to wait 10 minutes before getting another one

Thanks!

 

[flynnibus]

My new favorite take is how I have seen on quite a lot of other sites people stating that AQR can't count as an accommodation if everyone can get it. Basically insinuating that if anybody can use it then it doesn't count.

A great example of

For anyone reading along and is unsure... said claim is complete bunkus

 

[Chi84]

As someone who thinks DAS was abused to an unsustainable level and the changes were warranted, the one big issue in all of this seems to be a lack of training and consistency about the "replacement" options. People are being told different things from ride to ride. Someone may be able to get a RTQ for themselves, as they're traveling alone with just a minor child, while at another ride they are being told the minor child must wait in the queue while the disabled person waits alone.

Feels like the DAS part of it was well trained and the game plan was ready to go, but they dropped the budget ball on the park ops side.

I wonder if some of that isn't based on different queuing systems for different rides. The part about the "minor" doesn't really bother me since minor children 14 and over can get into the parks by themselves. I doubt Disney is having 5-year-olds stand in lines by themselves. (I'll save you the trouble of finding an example of that and tell you right now I won't believe it.)

The ADA requires equal access but does not require that the business remove all difficulty or discomfort. If people want their parties together while standing in every line (or waiting for each ride) as well on the actual ride, there is always Genie+/ILLs.

 

[flynnibus]

Breaking News - Elevators are no longer a valid means to provide ADA compliant accessibility since it was discovered non-disabled people were using the elevators... Facebook Group demands exclusive personal lifting devices... News at 11

(Complete with video of someone screaming 'I know my rights!')

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Rider switch is a choice and has nothing to do with disabilities. And then there is the whole human decency aspect to this. Disney has built their reputation on being friendly to those with disabilities, that is why so many go to the Disney parks when they wouldn't be able to go elsewhere. And I don't know how anyone can argue that not separating disabled people from their family is an "entitlement".
Disney has a lot of disabled guests because they made it possible for those with disabilities to tour halfway "normal".

Just realized I never responded to this. I don't think it's helpful to indicate that there is a lack of "human decency" in those who are suggesting an alternative accommodation for a disability. If there are posters who have posted that the disabled just shouldn't come to WDW at all, or if WDW itself suggested that, then I'd agree that kind of comment would show a lack of human decency. But a different accommodation that is less disruptive to overall park operations? Calling that a "lack of human decency" is pretty hyperbolic in my opinion.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

But a different accommodation that is less disruptive to overall park operations? Calling that a "lack of human decency" is pretty hyperbolic in my opinion.

It depends on what the “different accommodation” is and how it can be used.

I’m personally tired of the whole “DAS was causing disruptions to park operations” WDW has made such a mess of park operations by cutting live entertainment and park hours but yet this is supposed to be some noble effort? Eh, I’m not buying it.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

It depends on what the “different accommodation” is and how it can be used.

The different accommodation in question was AQR. You can debate it's efficacy, but to call the idea itself a "lack of human decency" is pretty over the top.

 

[Splash4eva]

Oh the inhumanity --wait 10 minutes

Not sure what that means… this was actually something i said way back when would help ease some of the DAS pain

 

[Purduevian]

It depends on what the “different accommodation” is and how it can be used.

I’m personally tired of the whole “DAS was causing disruptions to park operations” WDW has made such a mess of park operations by cutting live entertainment and park hours but yet this is supposed to be some noble effort? Eh, I’m not buying it.

Just to clarify you do not believe that DAS users were taking up significantly disproportion amount of ride capacity on high profile rides?

 

[John park hopper]

Not sure what that means… this was actually something i said way back when would help ease some of the DAS pain

being sarcastic

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Just to clarify you do not believe that DAS users were taking up significantly disproportion amount of ride capacity on high profile rides?

Correct. The numbers from Disney during the GAC case were for a family ride when DHS only had 1 family ride. It’s really unfair to use them as an example.

 

[Purduevian]

Correct. The numbers from Disney during the GAC case were for a family ride when DHS only had 1 family ride. It’s really unfair to use them as an example.

Do you put any faith into Len's HM counting?

 

[Drdcm]

I actually think it’s a legitimate positive that that particular poster changed her mindset and point of view. She went from advocating (in that post I linked) for the idea that disabled people shouldn’t even go to Disney World to being one of their biggest defenders in this thread. That’s what I mean when I say everyone should give this new system a chance and not assume the worst of the people who are disagreeing with you in this thread.

Edit: Here's the quote in question:

Source: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/gac-to-become-das.873666/page-34#post-5727553

A mentioned, that same poster is now one of the biggest defenders of the disabled in this thread, so I think views on this have definitely softened over time, and what is being debated in this thread is really just around the edges. Everyone agrees there needs to be accommodations for the disabled to be able to experience WDW. We are only disagreeing on what those accommodations look like. People should not assume the worst of the people they are discussing this with in this thread.

Yeah I get it. I wasn’t being critical of anyone.

I do think it’s a good example of not really grasping the degree of suffering many people encounter until you’re put in that position yourself.

I do a lot of work and school accommodation recommendations. I also help with evaluations to evaluate the degree of impairment at the VA for service connection (essentially disability benefits with a few extra caveats). I’ve learned that it’s really hard to pin people down with a static accommodation because there are fluctuations within a single person depending on the circumstances. That makes “reasonable” accommodations very very difficult because it then becomes dependent on time, day, mood, etc… that’s why there are so many people coming up with “what if situations” in the forum of people that can neither sit nor stand in line.

One anecdote I will contribute is that professionally I come across way more people trying to fake cognitive/psych disabilities than other types of physical issues - chronic pain is up there too. I would bet money that’s the case at Disney and am interested to see how this plays out.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Do you put any faith into Len's HM counting?

Some. But do we know if that was only DAS or that included Physical disabilities? Or does Mansion load physical disabilities from the exit so they don’t get scanned?

And is it only DAS that gets the blue light or do others get it?

 

[Angel Ariel]

One anecdote I will contribute is that professionally I come across way more people trying to fake cognitive/psych disabilities than other types of physical issues - chronic pain is up there too. I would bet money that’s the case at Disney and am interested to see how this plays out.

That's infuriating, but also sadly unsurprising. Issues that can be easily observed/verified are harder to fake than ones that are "invisible."

I suppose one benefit to these unending back and forth and what if conversations in these threads is it's making me pay more attention to exactly how DD struggles every day, esp with waiting. She had a 2.5 hr medical appt today - just a normal specialty follow-up, and I felt like I'd finished a marathon by the time we got home. It's easy to downplay/overlook how difficult things are when they're your daily reality.

 

[Purduevian]

Some. But do we know if that was only DAS or that included Physical disabilities? Or does Mansion load physical disabilities from the exit so they don’t get scanned?

And is it only DAS that gets the blue light or do others get it?

Regarding all the math from a few pages back... I think these are the relevant post (thank you Len):

Lens counting at HM they counted 1,750 people enter the LL in an hour, they also know that ~300 of those are G+ so but this count ~82% of the LL for HM was DAS, Golden Oak, or Rider Swap.



Apparently Len has gotten some confirmation that his numbers are close if not a little low.


Finally official word from Disney... but it's all outdated that GAC was 3.3% of people, but could take up to 30% of TSMM capacity. Also DAS has Tripled in the past 5 years (which I can't find the number but I think Len said this was also low.


So if we combine this data. 3.3%*3= 9.9% minimum now probably have DAS. Also they are taking ~80% of the HM LL in any given hour. I think these are probably conservative numbers to use when trying to look at the effect these DAS changes will have on the Standby and or LL queues.

What I can't see much evidence on (and would be very helpful for our hypotheticals) is average Standby vs LL ratio and the average party size at WDW. @lentesta any help on those 2 numbers?

But do we know if that was only DAS or that included Physical disabilities? Or does Mansion load physical disabilities from the exit so they don’t get scanned? Len counted people entering the LL, so anyone that was using an alternative entrance would not have been counted

And is it only DAS that gets the blue light or do others get it? He couldn't see the color of the light is my understanding.

Overall from what was posted DAS was taking up ~80% of HMs LL while he counted.

 

[Drdcm]

That's infuriating, but also sadly unsurprising. Issues that can be easily observed/verified are harder to fake than ones that are "invisible."

I suppose one benefit to these unending back and forth and what if conversations in these threads is it's making me pay more attention to exactly how DD struggles every day, esp with waiting. She had a 2.5 hr medical appt today - just a normal specialty follow-up, and I felt like I'd finished a marathon by the time we got home. It's easy to downplay/overlook how difficult things are when they're your daily reality.

That sounds tough. That’s a long appt!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Len counted people entering the LL, so anyone that was using an alternative entrance would not have been counted

So guests using wheelchairs, etc. don’t scan in at the LL entrance? I think they do at DL so maybe that’s where my confusion is coming.

Overall from what was posted DAS was taking up ~80% of HMs LL while he counted.

No…. IF we know for a fact what the genie+ number is and we know that nobody else was given LL as guest compensation, etc. during that time - then we know around 80% was a mix of DAS, Rider Swap, Golden Oak, and Club 33 as well correct?

 

[Drdcm]

After much observation and discussion… here’s my take.

I’m not a fan of DAS because too many people are using it nowadays. BUT, it isn’t all the people using it that bother me. I don’t like it because it doesn’t work and perpetuates the issue of long lines and overcrowding popular attractions. The more people that use DAS, the longer the lines get everywhere and the fewer people can tolerating waiting in any attraction’s line. Therefore forcing more people to use DAS and so on.

I don’t think tons of people are deliberately faking. Its use has exploded since 2019, which coincides with many cuts and reductions in operations. Not to mention G+. I haven’t seen more disability applications or more people faking at work, so I don’t really have any reason to believe that more people have become lying scumbags.

Maybe genie+ is the culprit, but I’m rather optimistic about humanity in general and don’t really believe a bunch of people have suddenly thrown morality out the window for the sake of a 30$ add on. It really is a tough sell to me that’s the source of the influx, and I really haven’t come across anyone willing to acknowledge they have lied in that way - and people tell me some of their darkest secrets because they are a source of shame.

I think the core issue is the range of disabilities pushing people to apply DAS has widened because the ability to wait in line and pace your day out have been severely hampered by lack of capacity, fewer non-ride things to do, and shortened park hours. In short everyone is trying to do the same thing at the same time with less time to do so. This is a mismanagement related issue that has nothing to do with DAS itself. It’s the product of poor planning. Easier said than done.

I am not judging people for using DAS. I’m not saying DAS isn’t an appropriate accommodation. I’m not accusing people of faking or embellishing. I just think DAS allows Disney to perpetuate and worsen an already bad situation and this new change isn’t going to make much of a difference because they didn’t fix the underlying problem.