New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[ditzee]

Yes. Actually no, that's not in your post.

They would also have to prove that Disney's other accommodations (leave the line, etc.) are unreasonable and won't work. Not just DAS.

Sorry, it's there now. I thought I had included this.

 

[ditzee]

They aren’t making anyone buy anything though. The accommodation when you’re denied DAS is the exit and return to line (not go buy Genie), which unless I’m misunderstanding doesn’t even require approval to use.

If there’s one thing I know about Disney is that they covered themselves legally before making moves here.

In my post, I did not claim that CMs are making anyone buy anything:
Now, CMs are not making people buy Genie+, it's a suggestion.

 

[Chi84]

K, I called the ADA because I figured that agency could give me answers. We are not experts and can debate for a quadrillion yrs but our thoughts are not laws.
The woman I spoke to told me that Disney cannot make people buy an accommodation, ie, Genie+. Now, CMs are not making people buy Genie+, it's a suggestion. She did say it needs to be looked into and that if people are having problems with denials, they should file a complaint. Disney only has to provide reasonable accommodations which I think we all know. No accommodation is not reasonable. So, say if someone goes to a ride CM and is not given a return to the line time and the guest feels this is not reasonable because of their condition, file a claim with the ADA. Note this will not help cheaters because filers will have to prove their disability, especially if the claim moves up the ladder.
My other question was about the class action thing you have to sign and she said they can't answer legal questions.

You know this means nothing, right?

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

In my post, I did not claim that CMs are making anyone buy anything:
Now, CMs are not making people buy Genie+, it's a suggestion.

I know that, but what you were told was basically they can’t make people buy anything. They arent (which I know you pointed out too), and they have accommodations for those who are denied DAS.

Sounds like people would not get very far disputing it at this point in time.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

They aren’t making anyone buy anything though. The accommodation when you’re denied DAS is the exit and return to line (not go buy Genie), which unless I’m misunderstanding doesn’t even require approval to use.

If there’s one thing I know about Disney is that they covered themselves legally before making moves here.

Plus the Rider Switch option. So that's two alternatives to DAS being offered. There's also the big issue that the ADA comes with the following caveat: "A business does not need to modify a policy if it would fundamentally alter the nature of the business’s goods or services."

Businesses That Are Open to the Public

Information to help businesses or people with a disabilities get started familiarizing themselves with the ADA.

www.ada.gov

 

[ditzee]

I know that, but what you were told was basically they can’t make people buy anything. They arent (which I know you pointed out too), and they have accommodations for those who are denied DAS.

Sounds like people would not get very far disputing it at this point in time.

Apparently, accommodations are on the ride CM to decide. The accommodation is not a given and the ones being offered may not be reasonable for certain conditions.
Here I thought speaking to an expert might help both sides of the discussion - just goes to show what I get for thinking. I did not say people should file claims. I repeated what the woman with the ADA told me.

 

[JAN J]

1. Change how the system works so it's far worse for those who actually get it, but fixes the massive issues it's causing at the scale it's currently used by guests

2. Massively reduce the number of ppl with DAS without tweaking how it actually functions and offer alternate accommodations to try to fix the operational issues.

They mostly picked option 2, with some more minor adjustments in line with option 1.

I like the analogy.

Maybe tweaking DAS to where you have to scan before AND after your ride, only allowing one use on attractions that have ILL ...

 

[DisneyHead123]

I think they had to be very limited in their recommendations. If you get in the weeds too much with various conditions, it will be 500 pages.

That's my point - they probably shouldn't give a simplistic answer to a complicated question. Especially since it comes across as a bit "too cute", since everyone knows they're trying to get DAS users out of lines at the moment. Just mention that there are long lines and give examples of wait times.

Most of their recommendations are good for ANYONE visiting the parks. There are plenty of neurotypical people who have convinced themselves post pandemic that they CAN’T wait in line, including the people who boasted online about lying for DAS. Someone needs to tell them, “yes, you can.”

They tried being nice and trusting toward everyone and it was unsustainable.

I agree that the current system is unsustainable, but I think that's because there will be more and more people with disabilities and likely increasing legal challenges to their systems. I think Disney will have to completely restructure what they're doing now, probably with something that utilizes reservations for all park goers more but gives priority to paid reservations. What they're doing now is a bandaid that won't last long.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I thought the entire point of DAS was to provide a return time for those that can not wait in a line... If they then go wait in an hour long line without any issue isn't that abuse?

To compare it to your analogy, its like watching someone park in a handicap spot for one store, then go to another store immediately after and park in a decently far spot and walk in and out just fine. I'll concede that it doesn't 100% mean abuse, but it is certainly suspicious and worth looking into.


I think there are people that abuse the system to get DAS, but don't get G+. They get a 120min return time for 7D, then go hop in a 65min space mountain line. Again, I don't think this is automatically abuse but should probably be investigated by Disney (maybe it's an outdoor vs indoor issue for example).

I think people are talking past each other.

Most the posts I've read talk about riding Peoplemover while they wait for Space Mtn. You know, Peoplemover, the no-wait moving park bench that's next to Space Mtn.?

Alas though, having a handicapped parking permit does not = a handicapped parking spot is available. So no, it is not suspicious to see a disabled person parking in a regular parking spot.

 

[Patcheslee]

The variety of needs here (long waits are okay in some lines not in others) will definitely be seen by Disney as confirmation that in-line accommodations that fit the exact need at the moment are more appropriate than DAS.

We arrive July 4th and assume I'll be using the return to queue. I plan on emailing them about the top 6 attractions we want to do, and hope they can give me information on what the processes are. At least knowing what I'm getting into will ease my anxiety prior to going.

 

[Splash4eva]

I think people are talking past each other.

Most the posts I've read talk about riding Peoplemover while they wait for Space Mtn. You know, Peoplemover, the no-wait moving park bench that's next to Space Mtn.?

Alas though, having a handicapped parking permit does not = a handicapped parking spot is available. So no, it is not suspicious to see a disabled person parking in a regular parking spot.

My Mom has a handicap tag which we bring to Disney i cant recall the last time i actually found at the hotel when coming back from the parks…

 

[JAN J]

You forgot biting, throwing things, pinching and scratchingall of these are possible reactions from an overstimulated individual with Developmental delays or anyone with a diagnosis that affects the brain.

The sad part is I am starting to wonder if that high support needs young boy with violent meltdowns is even going to qualify. The parents just need to practice more with him

I think it's pretty clear cut that, in these instances, DAS will still be issued.

I imagine that parents who have kids on these situations don't deal with it only in lines, it's likely a constant worry.

So, it stands to reason that they wouldn't just watch the kid melting down because a line it's taking too long.

I've been in LL queues that took some 40 minutes either because it was too packed (i.e. during or after a shutdown).
And I don't think there's a set in stone max amount of time the kid can handle the stress, it's likely subjective.

The kid having an outburst and injuring h(im/er)self and/or others could mean not only problems for Disney, but for the family as well.

 

[Happyday]

I think it's pretty clear cut that, in these instances, DAS will still be issued.

I imagine that parents who have kids on these situations don't deal with it only in lines, it's likely a constant worry.

So, it stands to reason that they wouldn't just watch the kid melting down because a line it's taking too long.

I've been in LL queues that took some 40 minutes either because it was too packed (i.e. during or after a shutdown).
And I don't think there's a set in stone max amount of time the kid can handle the stress, it's likely subjective.

The kid having an outburst and injuring h(im/er)self and/or others could mean not only problems for Disney, but for the family as well.

Hopefully. And yes this is a daily possibility and I will say for us it is not the line itself but again I will not advertise what the issue is.

 

[ditzee]

I think it's pretty clear cut that, in these instances, DAS will still be issued.

I imagine that parents who have kids on these situations don't deal with it only in lines, it's likely a constant worry.

So, it stands to reason that they wouldn't just watch the kid melting down because a line it's taking too long.

I've been in LL queues that took some 40 minutes either because it was too packed (i.e. during or after a shutdown).
And I don't think there's a set in stone max amount of time the kid can handle the stress, it's likely subjective.

The kid having an outburst and injuring h(im/er)self and/or others could mean not only problems for Disney, but for the family as well.

Yes, people with true disabilities still have them outside of Disney. It's something we have to deal with on a daily basis. A lot of us must have accommodations in our own homes that others might not realize.

 

[Purduevian]

Not to speak for that poster, but I didn't think they were referring to that type of situation. I thought it was about someone getting a DAS return for a 90 minute wait for Slinky and then going to wait in a 75 minute long standby line for Tower of Terror.

I think people are talking past each other.

Most the posts I've read talk about riding Peoplemover while they wait for Space Mtn. You know, Peoplemover, the no-wait moving park bench that's next to Space Mtn.?

Alas though, having a handicapped parking permit does not = a handicapped parking spot is available. So no, it is not suspicious to see a disabled person parking in a regular parking spot.

OK, people are getting hung up on all the specifics and an imperfect analogy I didn't even start...

My main point is that Disney has all this data from multiple systems, DAS useage, LL usage, ride wait time, tracking of individuals on specific rides at specific times, outdoor temperature, nature of queues, reason DAS was given, ect. All I was saying was that when a guest is located at an attraction a simple computer program should run.

Is this guest registered for DAS? Did they use the standby line to access this ride? Was the standby line above X minutes when they would have gotten into it? Does this ride/queue fit their DAS profile of one they cannot wait a long time in?

If the answer to all of the questions is yes, the computer should flag this for a human review. The human would then take other factors into account and possibly even security footage to see if the person was lying about the reason they need DAS, or if maybe that person was having a good few hour and could stand in the line at this time, but not other times.

Maybe these cases are so rare that it's pointless. However, I think cracking down on it even for a few weeks would steer many people away from lying to get DAS in the future for fear of getting banned.

 

[KDM31091]

I am no lawyer but as I understand it the ADA only mandates access to the attraction, as in, you physically being able to get on the ride if you want. It has nothing to do with how long you may have to wait in line to do so, which, you have the option of doing.

 

[Happyday]

I am no lawyer but as I understand it the ADA only mandates access to the attraction, as in, you physically being able to get on the ride if you want. It has nothing to do with how long you may have to wait in line to do so, which, you have the option of doing.

I'm not trying to disagree with you I just find it funny because there are rides I am sure would interest a certain set of individuals that are not accessible at all to them. (I'm looking at you FOP). So even then there are barriers to ADA.

 

[mikejs78]

I am no lawyer but as I understand it the ADA only mandates access to the attraction, as in, you physically being able to get on the ride if you want. It has nothing to do with how long you may have to wait in line to do so, which, you have the option of doing.

No, that's not what the ADA requires. It requires that you accommodate a disability. If a disability prevents you from waiting in a queue, and in order to access the line you have to wait in a queue, they need to accommodate that.

 

[KDM31091]

No, that's not what the ADA requires. It requires that you accommodate a disability. If a disability prevents you from waiting in a queue, and in order to access the line you have to wait in a queue, they need to accommodate that.

I can’t find anything in ADA guidelines that supports that. It is only concerned with physical access to attractions as far as I can tell, as in, ramps, proper clearance and radius, etc. nothing about wait times.

 

[hopemax]

This is the threshold conversation. A person may be able to wait 15-20 mins, but not be able to wait 60+. Going on something like tea cups with a 5-10 min wait while waiting for a 60+ min wait on SDMT doesn't mean they're lying or abusing anything. This was actively encouraged by Disney - in practice and in writing.

I don't think this is what the PP poster meant by waiting in line on another attraction. More the TSMM scenario a lot of people used when it was original Fastpass. Step 1: Grab you "come back later ticket." Step 2: get in line anyway. Step 3: Use your come back later ticket. 2 rides for the price of one wait.

Legitimate DAS users are probably not doing this, because they really can't. Maybe some kids with fixation issues, on their favorite ride. The one time they can tolerate the longer line or as Disney says "practice waiting in line." But the people who were told by a friend, to "just tell them the kid is autistic and use these magic words...?" That's the question: how large is the group doing this?

And it doesn't necessarily have to be the same attraction. It's hard to get everything in, on a normal day, for regular folks, which is why the pass attracts abuse. So the abusers could also do things like get a DAS entry time for Splash which is 90 minutes, and riding BTMRR which is 50. The abuser would still count this as shaving valuable time off, and making applying for the pass worth it. Anywhere there are a pair of popular attractions close together... if I were, as was suggested by people, looking into guest usage patterns. That's where I'd start. So RnRC / ToT, RotR / Smugglers Run, Slinky Dog / TSMM, Space Mountain / Buzz Lightyear etc.