New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Fido Chuckwagon]

The only tweak will be reverting back to the original system. Wait and see.

Lol, the odds of them going back to the original system are roughly the same as them going back to free fast pass. 0.0 percent.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Tone is hard to convey in a forum. I partly agree with you. I'm more posting more to discuss than to disagree.

As I said though, I'm a bit skeptical that this those who have never used DAS will see a big improvement.

I think those who have never used DAS and use Genie+ will see an improvement, and that is the majority of guests. Those that are standby-only remains to be seen, but it certainly won’t make things worse.

 

[networkpro]

There's not going to be a dog pile class action lawsuit thank to the terms and conditions that everyone accepts when signing up to get evaluated for a DAS. Disney lawyers didn't particularly like when AP holders in California went in that direction over availability for reservations. They've included a clause in the purchase agreement and DAS sign up processes that each participant agrees not to file any group actions. Individuals can still file, but not groups which limit the law firms willing to invest in such actions.

 

[Splash4eva]

The system “failed” because Disney has no capacity. The system “failed” because they want more profit & ultimately the system “failed” because Disney allowed larger parties pre books for NO reason and i will say it again Re rides! How else are you getting to these absurd percentages we are having people claim…

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

just point out that encouraging people to tie up the DOJ’s Civil Rights Division call center with frivolous complaints about a line skip system at a theme park is less than ideal. They have cases of discrimination against those with disabilities to dedicate their limited resources to.

I would say that’s up to the DOJ to decide - if someone has a legitimate complaint I would think they should share that.

 

[Ayla]

The only tweak will be reverting back to the original system. Wait and see.

Not a chance.

 

[RamblinWreck]

There's not going to be a dog pile class action lawsuit thank to the terms and conditions that everyone accepts when signing up to get evaluated for a DAS. Disney lawyers didn't particularly like when AP holders in California went in that direction over availability for reservations. They've included a clause in the purchase agreement and DAS sign up processes that each participant agrees not to file any group actions. Individuals can still file, but not groups which limit the law firms willing to invest in such actions.

I’m guessing it won’t be long before clauses like these are ruled unenforceable

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I've been in LL queues that took some 40 minutes either because it was too packed

This was a major problem with the former system that I don’t think has been addressed, the Space Mtn DAS/LL line at DL for example often exceeds 30 minutes, sometimes as long as an hour, as DAS users we probably had a 50/50 chance of actually using our return time because we’d often get to the top of the ramp only to see 3-4 switchbacks packed full of people, knowing we couldn’t wait in a line that long without it being a risk we’d just leave the line and not ride.

When the DAS lines themself are so long that they no longer provides the needed accommodation changes had to happen.

This was also our major complaint the one time we used Genie+ at WDW, paying an extra $20 each to still stand in 30 minute lines did not feel magical, it felt like a rip off.

 

[Gizmo516]

I think there are people that abuse the system to get DAS, but don't get G+. They get a 120min return time for 7D, then go hop in a 65min space mountain line. Again, I don't think this is automatically abuse but should probably be investigated by Disney (maybe it's an outdoor vs indoor issue for example).

So this gets sticky, too, though. My son can do 60 minutes in the Winnie the Pooh line because it has tons of things to occupy him. He can't even do 40 minutes in a regular "boring" line, though. Well, not without a meltdown and usually kicking me...

 

[DisneyHead123]

I’m guessing it won’t be long before clauses like these are ruled unenforceable

Just from a philosophical standpoint I was kind of curious about this aspect as it seems a person’s ability to sign away their legal rights should be extremely limited. Otherwise, why wouldn’t everyone selling anything have you initial an “I promise not to sue” clause?

Liability waivers for risky activities seem to be common, although I’m not sure if they hold up in court. Other than that, I can’t think of a good example of people being allowed to sign away the right to use the legal system.

 

[RamblinWreck]

So this gets sticky, too, though. My son can do 60 minutes in the Winnie the Pooh line because it has tons of things to occupy him. He can't even do 40 minutes in a regular "boring" line, though. Well, not without a meltdown and usually kicking me...

This should be apparent for many disabilities.

Not all the queues are the same. People who were getting DAS for claustrophobia type reasons might lose their minds in line for Rise of the Resistance or Little Mermaid. But have no issue for Slinky Dog.

It’s really easy for those of us who don’t struggle with disabilities to just think about likes in terms of how long they are as the only factor. It’s obviously not the case. All the queues are unique and I don’t know how each one might affect different people.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Just from a philosophical standpoint I was kind of curious about this aspect as it seems a person’s ability to sign away their legal rights should be extremely limited. Otherwise, why wouldn’t everyone selling anything have you initial an “I promise not to sue” clause?

Liability waivers for risky activities seem to be common, although I’m not sure if they hold up in court. Other than that, I can’t think of a good example of people being allowed to sign away the right to use the legal system.

There are a lot of clauses like that in service agreements though.

Or, at least, they require you to go through their official process and arbitration before bringing suit.

There may be some standing for them since you are buying into a service which is totally optional and agreeing to those terms ahead of time. You could have simply chosen not to use their service. I am not a lawyer though.

 

[OoOHoldmyBowOoO]

First of all I can't imagine what you go through on a daily basis. Sounds absolutely awful. I'm so sorry.

I'm genuinely curious, though, and this is not to downplay what you're going through, at all, but nearly all of the "please fill in all of the available space" type requests happen at points after which DAS will be useful. For example how do you cope with situations like at The Haunted Mansion pre-show, the Tower of Terror library, etc. It's the "large open room" type spaces where guests are often forced to huddle together to fit everyone in. It's exceedingly rare for cast members to be in standby queues asking guests to fill in the available space. By the same token, I'm surprised that LLs are any less dense than the standby lines, they just are often shorter and getting more people through per hour.

None of this is to doubt what you're going through, but I'm just trying to understand how DAS can be helpful in your case (and others like it) given the above.

I don't feel like you're downplaying anything and the more info I give, the more you can understand how I do my park days, which I can totally share. It's taken a while to find a routine so I'm pretty happy to discuss.

I can tell you about Haunted Mansion. Haunted Mansion CMs are the best about it. I am gently moved towards the back and positioned towards a wall so that my fiance can cover me. Once everyone else has left, then I'm taken onto the ride. There's always a CM there who will guide me to where I need to go next. I find Haunted Mansion CMs understand that wheelchairs are very much part of a person and you probably shouldn't be shaking them violently. This is the safest attraction for me and that seems odd because it's a giant room of people, but they're too distracted to smash into my chair. I see Haunted Mansion and I know that this is a safe ride for me.

CMs also take me through the back and I sometimes get to chitchat before I go to the preshow. They're counting how many people can fit in there and they know exactly where my chair can go for safety issues. Please be nice to Haunted Mansion CMs. They are my favorites for how well they've taken care of me and how safe they keep me.

Unfortunately I don't ride Tower of Terror very often. I've been pulled aside much like with Haunted Mansion and I'm the last person out after being placed in a little corner.

It's like airplane logic. I'm the last to leave. I'm out of the way so people don't step on me. And to be honest, the preshows distract people from getting handsy with my chair so these rides tend to be safer. I'm sure someone has been injured since never say never, but it's honestly been really great. I'm a broken record here but Haunted Mansion is the only ride I know I'm not going to get badly hurt on because someone decided to do something stupid.

Being merged into LLs aren't ideal, really. But they get me away from people behaving badly. 45 minutes with a dangerous person or two hours with a dangerous person. In my situation, what do you pick there? Clearly you go "no pain whatsoever" but really, we don't get what we want. I can only limit my exposure to stupid people.

That's harsh but that's how I have to live. It's counting how long I can endure someone being completely unbearable to me physically. That's every single day and not just Disney. It's scoping out the supermarket and making a good guess if someone's going to hit me with a cart. Again.

Sorry if this doesn't give enough information!

 

[DisneyHead123]

There are a lot of clauses like that in service agreements though.

What type of service agreements? Like if a construction worker is injured repairing your office?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

There are a lot of clauses like that in service agreements though.

This is a place of public accommodation though - it’s definitely an interesting move for Disney to make.

 

[LAKid53]

K, I called the ADAA because I figured that agency could give me answers. We are not experts and can debate for a quadrillion yrs but our thoughts are not laws.
The woman I spoke to told me that Disney cannot make people buy an accommodation, ie, Genie+. Now, CMs are not making people buy Genie+, it's a suggestion. She did say it needs to be looked into and that if people are having problems with denials, they should file a complaint. Disney only has to provide reasonable accommodations which I think we all know. No accommodation is not reasonable. So, say if someone goes to a ride CM and is not given a return to the line time and the guest feels this is not reasonable because of their condition, file a claim with file a complaint with the Disability Rights Section (DRS) in the Department of Justice , not the ADA. Note this will not help cheaters because filers will have to prove their disability, especially if the claim moves up the ladder.
My other question was about the class action thing you have to sign and she said they can't answer legal questions.

Genie+ isn't the accomodation system.
The DAS is the "reasonable" accomodation Disney provides to comply with Title III of the ADA.

BTW, the ADA is simply a piece of legislation.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

BTW, the ADA is simply a piece of legislation.

There is, however, an ADA information line that -

“

What Information We Provide​

• Requirements of the ADA
• How the ADA applies to your situation
• How to file a complaint

“

 

[LAKid53]

I am no lawyer but as I understand it the ADA only mandates access to the attraction, as in, you physically being able to get on the ride if you want. It has nothing to do with how long you may have to wait in line to do so, which, you have the option of doing.

The 2010 Standards, Sections 234 & 1002, Amusement Rides, covers the physical design, accessable route to the ride, and load & unload areas. Didn't see anything that addressed waiting times.

 

[LAKid53]

If it does not fundamentally alter the nature of their business. Line accommodations have never been required by the ADA, although that hasn't been tested.

I just read the pertinent sections of the 2010 Standards for Amusement Rides and didn't see anything regarding line accomodations that could infer wait times. Just providing physical access TO the ride and space to transfer from a wheelchair to the ride seat.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I can’t find anything in ADA guidelines that supports that. It is only concerned with physical access to attractions as far as I can tell, as in, ramps, proper clearance and radius, etc. nothing about wait times.

The regulations extend far wider than the Standards for Accessible Design.