New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[Basil of Baker Street]

"Disney is doing fine attendance-wise." At some point if guest satisfaction is not made a priority, that will no longer be true.

The parks are the earnings star:
"If ever there was a business which has found the magic formula for making profits it is Disney's theme park division. Last year alone it generated 69.6% of the media giant's $12.9 billion operating income on just 36.6% of the revenue.Apr 13, 2024"
Make Disney earn your park dollars.

Fixing DAS will largely improve guest satisfaction.

 

[lentesta]

Regarding all the math from a few pages back... I think these are the relevant post (thank you Len):

Lens counting at HM they counted 1,750 people enter the LL in an hour, they also know that ~300 of those are G+ so but this count ~82% of the LL for HM was DAS, Golden Oak, or Rider Swap.

Apparently Len has gotten some confirmation that his numbers are close if not a little low.

Finally official word from Disney... but it's all outdated that GAC was 3.3% of people, but could take up to 30% of TSMM capacity. Also DAS has Tripled in the past 5 years (which I can't find the number but I think Len said this was also low.

So if we combine this data. 3.3%*3= 9.9% minimum now probably have DAS. Also they are taking ~80% of the HM LL in any given hour. I think these are probably conservative numbers to use when trying to look at the effect these DAS changes will have on the Standby and or LL queues.

What I can't see much evidence on (and would be very helpful for our hypotheticals) is average Standby vs LL ratio and the average party size at WDW. @lentesta any help on those 2 numbers?

My understanding is that for most G+ attractions, the default Lightning Lane to Standby guest ratio was 4:1, the same as it was for FastPass+.

I believe the average party size is slightly under 3.0, but I haven't checked that in a while. It was slightly higher for out-of-state families than in-state, and 3.0 was close enough and made the math easier.

We're going to re-count LL usage now that it's after May 20, to see if/how these new changes have affected LL use. Will report back next week.

 

[Ayla]

My understanding is that for most G+ attractions, the default Lightning Lane to Standby guest ratio was 4:1, the same as it was for FastPass+.

I believe the average party size is slightly under 3.0, but I haven't checked that in a while. It was slightly higher for out-of-state families than in-state, and 3.0 was close enough and made the math easier.

We're going to re-count LL usage now that it's after May 20, to see if/how these new changes have affected LL use. Will report back next week.

Some people now will still be on pre-change rules, so another count may be in order after June 20th.

 

[Splash4eva]

Well it's not just me that thought this, clearly Disney did as well.

And im sure their decision had Zero to do about money…. Fyi this new system is still going to be broken and the cheats will still cheat & laugh their way to the front of the line mocking people who actually need the service…

 

[Splash4eva]

The spirit of the service is that it is available to use when you NEED it, not simply because it is available. It is never just 1 person doing something like that, so the argument that it doesn't impact wait times for others ignores the scale of the many users who do it and the fact that most parkgoers aren't solo travelers. Those users are still in 2 lines at once or taking up a line spot while doing something else (bathroom break, getting a snack or QS meal, etc.), which is something the non-DAS guests can't do. Doing that when you don't need to is absolutely taking advantage of the service. There is no justification for it. If the answer to the question "Do I need DAS to ride this attraction right now?" is "No," then the answer to the question "SHOULD I use DAS for this attraction right now?" is also "No."

Not sure where Disney states this in their DAS policies. Feel free to send me this once you find it. TYIA

 

[JAN J]

To them: it's a compromise. They know the park experience suffers when there are too many people in the park, but their one option to control demand (price increases) is furiously rebuffed by their audience. The somewhat nonsensical, counter intuitive dilemma they are in, is that a large portion of their audience will accept long lines and fewer attractions, as long as they are guaranteed to be paying the least amount for entry. They are in direct competition with the people who would rather pay more for a better experience.

Hence the compromise.

I think this is backwards.

Audiences will not accept fewer attractions and longer lines just to pay less.
They have to accept it because the upcharge to stay in the parks later is way too high for most parties (more than your regular ticket, baring maybe 1- or 2-day tickets on certain times of the year).
On a quick tangent, I (and many here) remember when going to Disney during holidays was special because of all the different events they would experience AS PART OF their regular day ticket. Disney just added the upcharge later to monetize a lot on a few that could afford it, and effectively worsened the experience for those who couldn't pay (a.k.a. the majority)

Price increases are not their "one" option to control demand.
In fact, they don't want to control demand, they likely want it as high as possible. The (thankfullly now gone) reservation system aimed at steering it for maximal efficiency (from their perspective but dealing a major blow to guest experience).

They have other options like, such as longer park hours, changing (lowering) the ratio of LL / Stand-by guests entering on the conversion points at queues, reviewing / optimizing preventative and scheduled maintenance... not to mention focus on expansion rather than replacement with new rides.
All of these cost money and take longer to implement, though I believe they create better guest loyalty in the long run.
It is simpler and easier to just raise prices and put paywalls on your park stay. But it's a lot easier to price people out than to make them dislike the parks.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Not sure where Disney states this in their DAS policies. Feel free to send me this once you find it. TYIA

This attitude amongst those using the last iteration of DAS is why that iteration failed.

 

[Chi84]

People are going to use whatever is available to them to its fullest extent. It’s not productive to blame them for doing so. The problem is that the program was designed to be too generous and that’s why Disney is changing it.

 

[JAN J]

Not sure where Disney states this in their DAS policies. Feel free to send me this once you find it. TYIA

He did say it was the "spirit" of the service. Of course from an actual perspective, if granted DAS, you are free to use it as you see fit within the rules and guidelines.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

does that mean 3.3% of guest were the disabled person or does the 3.3% include their entire party...

I can’t imagine it went from 3.3% total to 8% users plus the parties but anything is possible.

 

[Purduevian]

So if we combine this data. 3.3%*3= 9.9% minimum now probably have DAS. Also they are taking ~80% of the HM LL in any given hour. I think these are probably conservative numbers to use when trying to look at the effect these DAS changes will have on the Standby and or LL queues.

What I can't see much evidence on (and would be very helpful for our hypotheticals) is average Standby vs LL ratio and the average party size at WDW. @lentesta any help on those 2 numbers?

My understanding is that for most G+ attractions, the default Lightning Lane to Standby guest ratio was 4:1, the same as it was for FastPass+.

I believe the average party size is slightly under 3.0, but I haven't checked that in a while. It was slightly higher for out-of-state families than in-state, and 3.0 was close enough and made the math easier.

We're going to re-count LL usage now that it's after May 20, to see if/how these new changes have affected LL use. Will report back next week.

So relevant day for what I will call Legacy DAS:

• ~10% of people had DAS minimum
• Average party size is ~3
• DAS users can take ~80% of an attractions LL on rides like HM
• Standard ride capacity is ~80% LL 20% Standby

So Legacy DAS on a ride like HM could take (.8*.8) ~64% of a rides capacity by (.1*3) 30% of the guests.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Not sure where Disney states this in their DAS policies. Feel free to send me this once you find it. TYIA

It's common sense. Why does DAS exist? To accommodate guests who CANNOT wait in lines due to medical issues. Therefore, it is only logical to assume that it is not - and never was - intended to be used by guests who do not need it. When I go to the bank and they have lollipops on the counter for customers to take, I've obviously violated the spirit of the offer if I dump the entire container into a bag and walk out. I don't NEED 50 lollipops and there's no sign saying I CAN'T do that, but it is understood by anyone not looking to take advantage.

 

[Ayla]

It's common sense. Why does DAS exist? To accommodate guests who CANNOT wait in lines due to medical issues. Therefore, it is only logical to assume that it is not - and never was - intended to be used by guests who do not need it. When I go to the bank and they have lollipops on the counter for customers to take, I've obviously violated the spirit of the offer if I dump the entire container into a bag and walk out. I don't NEED 50 lollipops and there's no sign saying I CAN'T do that, but it is understood by anyone not looking to take advantage.

Unfortunately, common sense is in short supply these days.

 

[Splash4eva]

It's common sense. Why does DAS exist? To accommodate guests who CANNOT wait in lines due to medical issues. Therefore, it is only logical to assume that it is not - and never was - intended to be used by guests who do not need it. When I go to the bank and they have lollipops on the counter for customers to take, I've obviously violated the spirit of the offer if I dump the entire container into a bag and walk out. I don't NEED 50 lollipops and there's no sign saying I CAN'T do that, but it is understood by anyone not looking to take advantage.

You are making a ton of assumptions…

And was “heat intolerance” really w valid excuse for DAS?!? Ive never heard anyone that has used it with that disability

 

[JAN J]

And was “heat intolerance” really w valid excuse for DAS?!? Ive never heard anyone that has used it with that disability

I don't know if they used as the only reason but I saw (in this forum) people mention it as one of the consequences of their disability. Whether it was mentioned to a CM when DAS was issued, that I don't know.

 

[zann285]

My understanding is that for most G+ attractions, the default Lightning Lane to Standby guest ratio was 4:1, the same as it was for FastPass+.

I believe the average party size is slightly under 3.0, but I haven't checked that in a while. It was slightly higher for out-of-state families than in-state, and 3.0 was close enough and made the math easier.

We're going to re-count LL usage now that it's after May 20, to see if/how these new changes have affected LL use. Will report back next week.

If they intended to do a 4:1 ration on most rides, why were they only selling 300 per hour for HM? Was it purely because they thought DAS use was that high? Even from before they implemented Genie+? But there were no reports that early of "DAS abuse". Obviously people were using it, but I think people would have been up in arms in those days if half every ride's capacity was visibly going to people going through the Fast Pass lanes when FP wasn't offered.

I'll also note as a member of a party with wheelchairs, HM is another attraction that occasionally will assign wheelchair users and ECV users a wheelchair return time, typically if the queue is stretching through the dock area. This can skew numbers, similar to Space Mountain's wheelchair return system.

 

[Section106]

Now, if my wife no longer qualifies for DAS (wheelchair bound, MS, heat intolerance, chronic pain, Trigeminal Neuralgia, PTSD, legally blind, etc...) and we don't purchase G+/ILL then we will wait longer than those in the standby line for many rides.

This past December we had to wait 15 extra minutes for the wheelchair car at Remy. MMRR was a 20 minute wait for the wheelchair car. 7DMT is always an additional 10 minutes while the CMs get their bearings. Star Tours is 10 minutes extra. TSMM can be 20 minutes or more for the wheelchair car and the elaborate process to secure the chair. RRC is a seperate load area were we wait for the signal to board. JC we have to wait for the wheelchair boat. BTMR and Splash are load through the exit but we do wait to board. These two are the quickest. Pirates, FEA, Navi River are all really difficult as I have to bend down to put her in the boats without dropping her. We don't ride those often. ToT I have to carry her on. She will never do Tron again as it set off a Trigeminal attack. To ride Space Moutain we have to use their wheelchair which I have to push up two large inclines. When we last went the moving floor was broken. That was a workout. She hasn't been on that one since.

All of this is to say, while we got to wait outside of the standby line in the past we did (and will) have to wait longer that the posted times for the wheelchair accomodations. And if as some have suggested more chairs will be in the standby then our wait times.will be increased again. I don't know the answers to fix this problem. All I know is that our Disney trips have gotten that much harder for my family. We purchased DVC because of the accommodations afforded with DAS. Now my wife is very worried and upset that another part of her life could be limited or harmed through no fault of her own.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Obviously people were using it, but I think people would have been up in arms in those days if half every ride's capacity was visibly going to people going through the Fast Pass lanes when FP wasn't offered.

At Disneyland there are several attractions where you can easily see DAS users and even when there is a long line it seems they may be taking up at most 25-30% of capacity.

Example, every 3 or 4 vehicles gets loaded from the DAS line.

And this is only when the DAS is extremely long - usually it’s not.

 

[JAN J]

At Disneyland there are several attractions where you can easily see DAS users and even when there is a long line it seems they may be taking up at most 25-30% of capacity.

Example, every 3 or 4 vehicles gets loaded from the DAS line.

And this is only when the DAS is extremely long - usually it’s not.

I was there about a month ago, it seemed there were a lot more people loaded from the DAS / ILL queue than stand-by at any given boarding area.

 

[Happyday]

Now, if my wife no longer qualifies for DAS (wheelchair bound, MS, heat intolerance, chronic pain, Trigeminal Neuralgia, PTSD, legally blind, etc...) and we don't purchase G+/ILL then we will wait longer than those in the standby line for many rides.

This past December we had to wait 15 extra minutes for the wheelchair car at Remy. MMRR was a 20 minute wait for the wheelchair car. 7DMT is always an additional 10 minutes while the CMs get their bearings. Star Tours is 10 minutes extra. TSMM can be 20 minutes or more for the wheelchair car and the elaborate process to secure the chair. RRC is a seperate load area were we wait for the signal to board. JC we have to wait for the wheelchair boat. BTMR and Splash are load through the exit but we do wait to board. These two are the quickest. Pirates, FEA, Navi River are all really difficult as I have to bend down to put her in the boats without dropping her. We don't ride those often. ToT I have to carry her on. She will never do Tron again as it set off a Trigeminal attack. To ride Space Moutain we have to use their wheelchair which I have to push up two large inclines. When we last went the moving floor was broken. That was a workout. She hasn't been on that one since.

All of this is to say, while we got to wait outside of the standby line in the past we did (and will) have to wait longer that the posted times for the wheelchair accomodations. And if as some have suggested more chairs will be in the standby then our wait times.will be increased again. I don't know the answers to fix this problem. All I know is that our Disney trips have gotten that much harder for my family. We purchased DVC because of the accommodations afforded with DAS. Now my wife is very worried and upset that another part of her life could be limited or harmed through no fault of her own.

I totally understand we as well are counted in the extra wait having to wait for accessible ride vehicles. We almost had an issue with the length of wait for TSM that one can get long, sometimes beyond the wait tolerance of our individual and this is one of the rides we have an extended tolerance for.