New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[ditzee]

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And this is why Disney's attitude towards guest happiness is not the priority anymore. Disney can take take a crud on people's heads and some will say, "Oh but it's Disney's crud and it's really not crud, it's Mickey bars with extra chocolate.". It's like a bad relationship where one side has all the power and the other side cowers and won't stand up for themselves.
I hope Epic really does slam Disney. People will reach a breaking point with Disney. The question is when and how. The parks are bringing in bucks and the movies are losing bucks.
Make Disney earn your park money. If the company is providing a lesser experience for you and your family, let them know.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Also I lament the practice of running rides at partial capacity at open. If they were running full tilt from the get go lines would build up slower and more people could ride.

We are all fighting about DAS, meanwhile, running rides at partial capacity is a HUGE problem and is 100 percent Disney's doing in order to save costs.

 

[Splash4eva]

We are all fighting about DAS, meanwhile, running rides at partial capacity is a HUGE problem and is 100 percent Disney's doing in order to save costs.

Nope easy to blame people with disabilities and berate them instead of dare i say criticize the Mouse

 

[Comped]

Fun fact, in the era pre-DAS, they had "Guest Assistance Cards," which basically replaced the old wheelchair passes from the 90s. You'd go to GR, tell them what your specific needs were and from there they had a half dozen stamps they could put on your GAC, one of which was to offer a shaded wait area for guests who had trouble with sunlight. So they very much tried a (analog) system that allowed Disney to determine

With time people figured out what to say to get the best "enter the FP line" stamp and the other stamps basically started gathering dust, to the point where GR barely even had them on hand anymore.

I still have my actual card from those trips in the early 2000s. Ironically it was a better system.

This is the kind of soft abuse that likely ultimately doomed the program. Few think they were “abusing” DAS, but every single person who used DAS when they didn’t need to ultimately led to its downfall. The user who really could wait in that 15 minute peoplemover line and has no problem waiting in the 20 minute Soarin LL, but used DAS for peoplemover anyway, because why not? The power users who made sure they were always doing something else taking up two spots while waiting in their virtual line because “why wouldn’t they?” “Abuse” doesn’t just mean people who lied to get DAS. It definitely includes people who used DAS when they didn’t need to.

I honestly had no idea Peoplemover had a DAS option. Just never saw it on the list, and always waited in the line assuming it wasn't ridiculously long.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

Is you think this is what failed the system i will respectfully disagree with you…
Pre books re rides and party size to me again are the major issues with the problem …

Well it's not just me that thought this, clearly Disney did as well.

 

[Fido Chuckwagon]

And this is why Disney's attitude towards guest happiness is not the priority anymore. Disney can take take a crud on people's heads and some will say, "Oh but it's Disney's crud and it's really not crud, it's Mickey bars with extra chocolate.". It's like a bad relationship where one side has all the power and the other side cowers and won't stand up for themselves.
I hope Epic really does slam Disney. People will reach a breaking point with Disney. The question is when and how. The parks are bringing in bucks and the movies are losing bucks.
Make Disney earn your park money. If the company is providing a lesser experience for you and your family, let them know.

Lot to unpack there. Disney is doing just fine attendance-wise. This forum represents a small sliver of superfans who will always find something to dislike about WDW, but everyone I know who casually goes to WDW still loves it. And this statement:

 

[Vacationeer]

But WDW decided to increase the number of paid events in the evenings, which has made the experience worse for the guests who have not paid extra.

Yep. WDW likes it because it pushes even more people to buy the paid events, further exacerbating the issue fo day guests. Rinse and repeat. It’s like their secret sauce has become making things hard for guests so they’ll pay more money and per capita spending increases. Profits are nice but there’s not endless dials of increased spending and reducing experience. They own some responsibility in why G+ is dysfunctional.

 

[ditzee]

Lot to unpack there. Disney is doing just fine attendance-wise. This forum represents a small sliver of superfans who will always find something to dislike about WDW, but everyone I know who casually goes to WDW still loves it. And this statement:

"Disney is doing fine attendance-wise." At some point if guest satisfaction is not made a priority, that will no longer be true.

The parks are the earnings star:
"If ever there was a business which has found the magic formula for making profits it is Disney's theme park division. Last year alone it generated 69.6% of the media giant's $12.9 billion operating income on just 36.6% of the revenue.Apr 13, 2024"
Make Disney earn your park dollars.

 

[el_super]

A system being used correctly can still be flawed system

Yes DAS was broken, and most likely still is. Yes the systems that came before it were broken too. It's easier for me to accept a broken system that let through a few scofflaws, than accepting fixes that potentially turn away people that genuinely need assistance for access.

Making access harder for everyone, including those that genuinely need it, isn't worth the hassle.

 

[ConfettiCupcake]

Nope easy to blame people with disabilities and berate them instead of dare i say criticize the Mouse

For me it’s all about being realistic. I’d love for them to go back to the hours of 15-20 years ago, I’d love them to knock it off with the up charges, and I’d love them to run the parks at full capacity not just as little as they can get away with. I know that isn’t happening.

In the scope of this conversation I’m not ignoring all those major contributors to the crowded feel, nor am I defending Disney, rather I’m just pointing out what I feel is pretty obvious - that Disney saw DAS as it was as a problem when it came to the LL and their G+ program. DAS is certainly not the reason touring is how it is.

 

[el_super]

But WDW decided to increase the number of paid events in the evenings, which has made the experience worse for the guests who have not paid extra.

To them: it's a compromise. They know the park experience suffers when there are too many people in the park, but their one option to control demand (price increases) is furiously rebuffed by their audience. The somewhat nonsensical, counter intuitive dilemma they are in, is that a large portion of their audience will accept long lines and fewer attractions, as long as they are guaranteed to be paying the least amount for entry. They are in direct competition with the people who would rather pay more for a better experience.

Hence the compromise.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney saw DAS as it was as a problem when it came to the LL and their G+ program.

Agreed. Disney now wants most of the folks who previously qualified for DAS to now PAY for G+ and ILL.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

They know the park experience suffers when there are too many people in the park, but their one option to control demand (price increases) is furiously rebuffed by their audience.

Raising prices is not about controlling demand - they are pretty much at the limit of what they can charge right now and based on attendance in Florida - they may have reached that limit.

You don’t close attractions, end live entertainment, close food options, and limit hours of the park because you have too much demand.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Raising prices is not about controlling demand - they are pretty much at the limit of what they can charge right now and based on attendance in Florida - they may have reached that limit.

You don’t close attractions, end live entertainment, close food options, and limit hours of the park because you have too much demand.

Wait till EPIC opens. You ain't seen nothin' yet!

 

[ditzee]

Raising prices is not about controlling demand - they are pretty much at the limit of what they can charge right now and based on attendance in Florida - they may have reached that limit.

You don’t close attractions, end live entertainment, close food options, and limit hours of the park because you have too much demand.

I can remember when people said Disney would charge for an FP like experience and when it was said that Disney would allow more benefits depending upon Disney resort level stay. Others were outraged because Disney would never do anything like that. There were very heated discussions. Where are we now? Disney doesn't have a limit. Any limits would have to be set by guests who refuse to spend their vacation money at Disney. The resorts charge outrageous prices for beautiful lobbies and mediocre rooms but people, including me, have paid those prices.

 

[networkpro]

Reduction of party size & pre booked rides frees up slots. So does eliminating re rides. They simply are trying to fix this by telling most people no more DAS sell more Genie & thats that. Wait times are not magically disappearing

I respectfully disagree. You fail to take into account the impact unplanned Das users have on the ll/ill ratios at merge.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Again if you need DAS for whatever reason and use it within the rules its not abuse imo…
Now with that being said i can somewhat see your point and yes there are plenty of times where lines are short ill walk on and not bother but those rides whether some books a das or not is not causing an issue. A 15 minute walk on and someone books a Das is not causing issues

The spirit of the service is that it is available to use when you NEED it, not simply because it is available. It is never just 1 person doing something like that, so the argument that it doesn't impact wait times for others ignores the scale of the many users who do it and the fact that most parkgoers aren't solo travelers. Those users are still in 2 lines at once or taking up a line spot while doing something else (bathroom break, getting a snack or QS meal, etc.), which is something the non-DAS guests can't do. Doing that when you don't need to is absolutely taking advantage of the service. There is no justification for it. If the answer to the question "Do I need DAS to ride this attraction right now?" is "No," then the answer to the question "SHOULD I use DAS for this attraction right now?" is also "No."

 

[Purduevian]

Regarding all the math from a few pages back... I think these are the relevant post (thank you Len):

Lens counting at HM they counted 1,750 people enter the LL in an hour, they also know that ~300 of those are G+ so but this count ~82% of the LL for HM was DAS, Golden Oak, or Rider Swap.

We've been counting the number of guests entering both the standby line and the Lightning Lane, per hour, at key attractions.

We've seen instances where the number of guests entering the LL is:

• Equal to or greater than the number entering the standby line
• More than half of the attraction's hourly capacity

For example, at Haunted Mansion we counted roughly 1,750 guests entering the LL line in one hour, and slightly less than that entering the standby line. None of them - zero - appeared to be VIP tours.

We also think that the number of G+ reservations sold by Disney for HM is not more than 300 per hour.

So there's ~1,450 guests that are somehow using the LL line. None of them were VIP tours.

Some of them could reasonably be rider swap. But HM isn't a roller coaster and there's no height limit, so I'd expect that rider swap number to be super low.

Apparently Len has gotten some confirmation that his numbers are close if not a little low.

This is pretty much it. We had some numbers from Disney's lawsuit testimony and public comments. We added our own data, which fit into that range really well. And then we heard we were a bit low for some popular rides that we hadn't yet counted.

Finally official word from Disney... but it's all outdated that GAC was 3.3% of people, but could take up to 30% of TSMM capacity. Also DAS has Tripled in the past 5 years (which I can't find the number but I think Len said this was also low.

I think we can be sure it rose just from Disney's own statements on it.

In this 2020 lawsuit about ADA accommodation at its parks, the court found this data from Disney persuasive (emphasis mine):

In a two-week study conducted by Disney's Industrial Engineering team in April 2013, the team found that GAC pass usage at five of the most popular attractions at Disney (the "GAC Study") was much higher than the percentage of guests in the park who held a GAC pass. ​

​

At that time, approximately 3.3% of guests at Disney used a GAC pass, yet the percentage of guests on the most popular rides who had a GAC pass and entered through the FastPass line was significantly higher than 3.3%. ​

​

The GAC Study showed that 11% of riders on Space Mountain, 13% of riders on Splash Mountain, and 30% on Toy Story Mania used a GAC pass to access the ride. ​

​

Disney's industrial engineers concluded that the small portion of the guest population who held GAC pass was consuming a substantial portion of the ride capacity. ​

​

For example, guests with a GAC pass were riding Toy Story Mania an average of ten times more than guests who did not have a GAC pass.​

Cite: A.L. v. Walt Disney Parks & Resorts US, Inc., 469 F. Supp. 3d 1280, 1294 (M.D. Fla. 2020). The quote above is on the right-hand side of page 9.

Disney said when announcing DAS changes that use of the system has tripled in the last 5 years. (Second cite here.)

So if we combine this data. 3.3%*3= 9.9% minimum now probably have DAS. Also they are taking ~80% of the HM LL in any given hour. I think these are probably conservative numbers to use when trying to look at the effect these DAS changes will have on the Standby and or LL queues.

What I can't see much evidence on (and would be very helpful for our hypotheticals) is average Standby vs LL ratio and the average party size at WDW. @lentesta any help on those 2 numbers?

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Finally official word from Disney... but it's all outdated that GAC was 3.3% of people, but could take up to 30% of TSMM capacity.

That was always a tricky fact since TSMM was the only family ride at the park at that time. The MK attractions quoted had 11% and 13% - which would be about right if 3.3% of guests had GAC and the average party size was 3.

 

[Purduevian]

That was always a tricky fact since TSMM was the only family ride at the park at that time. The MK attractions quoted had 11% and 13% - which would be about right if 3.3% of guests had GAC and the average party size was 3.

Also with how GAC vs DAS works, it was so much easier for families to just re-ride TSMM back to back without issues. I think the important number from that post is that back when there was "3.3% of guests at Disney used a GAC pass" the think I don't know is does that mean 3.3% of guest were the disabled person or does the 3.3% include their entire party...