New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024

[AEfx]

Because the issues with many people inflicted with this is they can have triggers around patterns and wants.. many can not handle 'change' very well. So their schedule and patterns are very key. Unlike a physical handicap where you are simply trying to avoid a physical constraint... in many of these cases you are dealing with mental and psychological issues that you can't simply rationalize with like you could another person.

And that's really where the law needs to start making the distinction, and hopefully the current lawsuits will lead to where the responsibility lies.

That's going to be a challenge, because it's so subjective in many ways, and honestly, a lot of it in many cases depends on the attitude of the parents towards their child's disability.

There is one camp that simply believes that they have no responsibility for helping their child to cope as best they can in the world, and that the world just needs to totally shift around their needs/wants. Anything that requires their child to adapt, is discriminatory or offensive.

Then you have other parents who try to equip their kid as best at they are able to function in the world as possible. For example, I have known parents that "practiced" standing in line at home well before a trip to some place like WDW. Starting just around the house. And then working up to some place public. Working with them to develop strategies and to find out what works for them.

Now, obviously, that doesn't work for everyone - but in many cases, it can - unless there is a truly severe disability. And it only makes sense - you have a kid that hates or can't wait in lines - but if you never work with them to wait in one, and they are just used to walking up to the front of the lunch line at school every day, and never being exposed to them - clearly, they never have the opportunity to even possibly overcome or be in any control of it.

It's a sticky situation, no doubt - but clearly I think it is one that some sort of determination has to be made legally.

 

[DisneyCane]

It might be, depends on the individual. Some folks with autism will have issues if the party separates, some won't.

Now we're going down the slippery slope to unreasonable accommodations. Are you saying that this Autistic person is always near all members of their family outside of WDW?

 

[DisneyCane]

Because the issues with many people inflicted with this is they can have triggers around patterns and wants.. many can not handle 'change' very well. So their schedule and patterns are very key. Unlike a physical handicap where you are simply trying to avoid a physical constraint... in many of these cases you are dealing with mental and psychological issues that you can't simply rationalize with like you could another person.

When they are at Disney (or any place away from home/school), they are not following their normal pattern. They are in a hotel room, eating in different places, using different bathrooms. You can't say that their pattern is that that they must embark on an attraction within 15 minutes of passing the entrance.

The whole trip is "change" and, if somebody can't handle that kind of change, they shouldn't be subjected to it by their family.

Maybe Disney can accommodate autistic people reliant on strict adherence to patterns by giving them Apple Vision Pro to wear and giving them a VR experience like they are still at home.

 

[Disstevefan1]

This is going to be interesting to watch. We know from the moment the new DAS system launches, Disney will be making money from selling more Genie+ as I suspect families will not have the time to fight and just give in and get the Genie+ as its the next best thing, not as good as DAS, but again, families don't have time to fight, especially when they have already pre booked their VERY EXPENSIVE Disney vacation.

I think Disney is "banking" on this. Disney wins again.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Im not advocating for this.

However.

Based on the tone of this thread a fair response would be -

That’s on the caregiver to figure out. The autistic guest has been provided equal accommodations by Disney.

Now get out of my way I need to get on this ride quicker!

I think the real answer is that autistic people have more advocates and those advocates have been more litigious than advocates for other disabilities in the past.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Now we're going down the slippery slope to unreasonable accommodations. Are you saying that this Autistic person is always near all members of their family outside of WDW?

It is likely that when traveling to crowded tourist destinations, that yes this is the case.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I presume there are a lot of folks will skip Disney to go to EPIC mostly because Families have only so much money and vacation time and they will make a choice. Its possible the DAS change pushed them over the edge.

Having said that, there are also die hard Disney fans that will PAY THE PRICE for Genie+

Lets see what happens.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Just saying what could happen… hence why there is a big concern for abuse.

I won’t respond to your questions anymore

I get what you were trying to say earlier, and it was one of the more constructive posts in this thread. Now, you did have the family somehow going from BTMRR- walking to Fantasyland- and all the way through Peter Pan in under 25 minutes, but the sentiment was there.

I've seen WDW on level 10 crowd days, but also on level 1 days, when just about every attraction was walk-on. Even when Mk was empty, we could only do so many rides per hour. i am sometimes surprised by how few rides we do on those days.

Seems like someone always wants to stop for something.

 

[Andrew25]

I presume there are a lot of folks will skip Disney to go to EPIC mostly because Families have only so much money and vacation time and they will make a choice. Its possible the DAS change pushed them over the edge.

Disney is essentially matching Universal's newer DAS program that debuted last year... DAS is definitely not a reason why families are picking between both resorts.

DAS abuse is far more rampant at WDW thanks to a load of factors (increased downtime, lack of incremental capacity, etc.)

 

[DisneyHead123]

And that's really where the law needs to start making the distinction, and hopefully the current lawsuits will lead to where the responsibility lies.

That's going to be a challenge, because it's so subjective in many ways, and honestly, a lot of it in many cases depends on the attitude of the parents towards their child's disability.

There is one camp that simply believes that they have no responsibility for helping their child to cope as best they can in the world, and that the world just needs to totally shift around their needs/wants. Anything that requires their child to adapt, is discriminatory or offensive.

Then you have other parents who try to equip their kid as best at they are able to function in the world as possible. For example, I have known parents that "practiced" standing in line at home well before a trip to some place like WDW. Starting just around the house. And then working up to some place public. Working with them to develop strategies and to find out what works for them.

Now, obviously, that doesn't work for everyone - but in many cases, it can - unless there is a truly severe disability. And it only makes sense - you have a kid that hates or can't wait in lines - but if you never work with them to wait in one, and they are just used to walking up to the front of the lunch line at school every day, and never being exposed to them - clearly, they never have the opportunity to even possibly overcome or be in any control of it.

It's a sticky situation, no doubt - but clearly I think it is one that some sort of determination has to be made legally.

I get what you are saying about the difference between those who want to totally accept neurodivergence as-is on one end of the spectrum, vs. those who take the behaviorist approach on the other. That is certainly a debate where there are some... um... strong... feelings. But there is a large, fairly sensible middle ground between those groups, of parents who try with varying degrees of success to help their kids in different ways, and a lot of these issues simply persist. Even very high functioning children can have severe sensory issues, crippling anxiety, explosive behavior issues, etc. I've known a few parents who tried just everything they could think of, and really nothing but medication helped (and that of course has side effects and parents get flak for using it.)

 

[flynnibus]

It's a sticky situation, no doubt - but clearly I think it is one that some sort of determination has to be made legally.

That's why these interpretations of limitations should be made by medical professionals - not judges trying to interpret what is parenting vs disabilities.

 

[flynnibus]

When they are at Disney (or any place away from home/school), they are not following their normal pattern. They are in a hotel room, eating in different places, using different bathrooms. You can't say that their pattern is that that they must embark on an attraction within 15 minutes of passing the entrance.

Maybe you should talk to the people who actually live this and how they manage day to day vs just broadly assume. Or probably better... just not get in the middle period. You don't know what the triggers are for each individual.

 

[RamblinWreck]

I get what you were trying to say earlier, and it was one of the more constructive posts in this thread. Now, you did have the family somehow going from BTMRR- walking to Fantasyland- and all the way through Peter Pan in under 25 minutes, but the sentiment was there.

I've seen WDW on level 10 crowd days, but also on level 1 days, when just about every attraction was walk-on. Even when Mk was empty, we could only do so many rides per hour. i am sometimes surprised by how few rides we do on those days.

Seems like someone always wants to stop for something.

And all those stops just make DAS even better comparatively.

Because you’re “waiting in line” the whole time you are making those stops.

 

[Tha Realest]

This is going to be interesting to watch. We know from the moment the new DAS system launches, Disney will be making money from selling more Genie+ as I suspect families will not have the time to fight and just give in and get the Genie+ as its the next best thing, not as good as DAS, but again, families don't have time to fight, especially when they have already pre booked their VERY EXPENSIVE Disney vacation.

I think Disney is "banking" on this. Disney wins again.

I question the logic of this argument - that this is a pure money grab for more G+ - which people keep raising.

As it stands, G+ infrequently sells out. Some have estimated it’s only sold out 5% of the days since its introduction. The variable price certainly shifts that daily calculus, but the demand is hardly ever exceeding the supply.

If the DAS changes do result in less people in LL lines, that *should* also increase the standby line flow through, theoretically lowering standby wait times.

Now, if that is the case, wouldn’t simple economics dictate that there would be less reason to motivate people to buy G+, if the wait times lowered to a more reasonable number?

 

[RamblinWreck]

I question the logic of this argument - that this is a pure money grab for more G+ - which people keep raising.

As it stands, G+ infrequently sells out. Some have estimated it’s only sold out 5% of the days since its introduction. The variable price certainly shifts that daily calculus, but the demand is hardly ever exceeding the supply.

If the DAS changes do result in less people in LL lines, that *should* also increase the standby line flow through, theoretically lowering standby wait times.

Now, if that is the case, wouldn’t simple economics dictate that there would be less reason to motivate people to buy G+, if the wait times lowered to a more reasonable number?

I agree.

I mentioned somewhere in this massive thread that I believe DAS abuse was actually helping G+ sales because it made the lines so much worse, and Disney actually liked it that way for a while.

But it was also a self-perpetuating thing. Longer lines led to more Genie+ but also more DAS abuse. Even longer lines led to even more Genie+ and even more DAS abuse.

It reached a point where it wasn’t sustainable anymore. I feel bad for anyone who visited during the busy spring break weeks of 2024 and wasn’t on the DAS pass.

 

[flynnibus]

Now, if that is the case, wouldn’t simple economics dictate that there would be less reason to motivate people to buy G+, if the wait times lowered to a more reasonable number?

You skip the other outcome...

G+ return line waits decrease, while availability stays strong.. or even more LL spots can be sold. It makes G+ more attractive when it gets back to 'almost no wait' vs the trainwreck it's become.

Imagine a world where availability increased enough where they were to make G+ not be limited to one use anymore... then imagine what that could do to sales.

 

[Tha Realest]

You skip the other outcome...

G+ return line waits decrease, while availability stays strong.. or even more LL spots can be sold. It makes G+ more attractive when it gets back to 'almost no wait' vs the trainwreck it's become.

Imagine a world where availability increased enough where they were to make G+ not be limited to one use anymore... then imagine what that could do to sales.

Perhaps. It all depends on how rigid they stick to the DAS guardrails. How stringent are they on cracking down on specious developmental disability claims? How rigid are they with the “only” developmental disabilities get DAS (do they really withhold from those with extreme physical disabilities?)

Basically, if they reduce DAS usage by, say, 25% from what it is now (scammers and those who can be accommodated differently), will that really result in that much more of an enticing G+ experience?

 

[Disstevefan1]

I question the logic of this argument - that this is a pure money grab for more G+ - which people keep raising.

As it stands, G+ infrequently sells out. Some have estimated it’s only sold out 5% of the days since its introduction. The variable price certainly shifts that daily calculus, but the demand is hardly ever exceeding the supply.

If the DAS changes do result in less people in LL lines, that *should* also increase the standby line flow through, theoretically lowering standby wait times.

Now, if that is the case, wouldn’t simple economics dictate that there would be less reason to motivate people to buy G+, if the wait times lowered to a more reasonable number?

I hear you, but I think the DAS changes will greatly increase the purchase in Genie+, because these former DAS folks STILL HAVE THE ISSUE that qualified them for the old DAS, so they need something, so they will go to Genie+

Will there be less folks in LL lines? Possibly. Think about the competition for LL return times in Genie+ with the increase of folks using it. If folks try to get return times for attractions too late in the morning, return times could be 6 hours away and folks will not be in the LL line for 6 hours and may not even bother to use that return time.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Perhaps. It all depends on how rigid they stick to the DAS guardrails. How stringent are they on cracking down on specious developmental disability claims? How rigid are they with the “only” developmental disabilities get DAS (do they really withhold from those with extreme physical disabilities?)

Basically, if they reduce DAS usage by, say, 25% from what it is now (scammers and those who can be accommodated differently), will that really result in that much more of an enticing G+ experience?

It seems they are trying to cut DAS usage by far more than 25%.

I don’t know what they are targeting but my guess is closer to 80%.

They are trying to use different accommodations from DAS for nearly every disability.

 

[Disstevefan1]

All this is super interesting. Everyone has different viewpoints and it makes me think about this from all these different viewpoints. I cant wait to see how this goes.

Who knows, Disney will make more money on Genie+ AND queues will be shorter.