What if your a party of 2?
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New DAS System at Walt Disney World 2024
- Thread starter AEfx
- Start date
This is 100% a problem of Disney's own creation.
Back with paper FPs, GACs were an equal trouble as the current DAS because GACs acted like an unlimited FP. Back then, I was just a wee little front-line CM on multiple E-ticket attractions trying to tell management how bad the issue was. But since nothing was electronically recorded, I had no proof beyond my own observation; and a little nobody like me wasn't going to be listened to. And even the managers who knew it was an issue weren't going to speak up, because no one wants to accuse anyone of faking disabilities. Which is understandable. But as an example, I once had a lady come up to me with her brand new GAC, looked me in the eyes and said, "My husband sometimes wobbles if he stands, so they gave us this. It's a fastpass, right?" Yeah. They were giving them out for WOBBLING.
Anyway, fast-forward to FP+ and the DAS...I think that was the smartest FP-related move they ever made at the time. The new DAS was no longer an unlimited FP+. The appeal to abuse it was diminished. I'm sure it was still abused by the same people that abused the GAC, but I never again saw the same families running through the FP line a dozen times or more on their favorite E-tickets because...they couldn't. It automatically cut down abuse just by it's very nature.
I've been gone from the company since covid, so I can't speak to their current issues from a first-hand experience. Apparently FP+ didn't "work," whatever that meant. It always worked for me as a frequent visitor with my kids - and I was often a day-of planner. But whatever. Disney decided to go to Genie+. Now, what once was free is now an additional fee. Per person. Per day. Access to a line that guests were used to using for free for 2 decades was now going to cost hundreds of dollars more for their family to use.
But wait, some people still get to access that line? With no money involved at all? Listen, it's despicable that there are people who would lie about disabilities. But honestly? I get it. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone it! But I get it. You can argue until you're blue in the face that DAS doesn't offer any advantage. But obviously it does, otherwise we wouldn't have people willing to lie about not being able to control their bowels in order to use it. Even if people use it and can only access the lightning lane 3 times a day, well...that's the same number of FP+ people were able to use with that system for free. And I think more people are abusing it now than ever abused the GAC because - again, some people essentially get it for free. The accommodations are perceived to be better than what is offered to able-bodied guests, since there's no free FP anymore. I'm not saying it's true. But it's the perception. And again...it's FREE. Not to mention, you can use it for rides that have “sold out” their LL.
So between Disney not having enough capacity for FP system that works well on top of charging for the LL, they screwed themselves, and in turn, guests - both able-bodied and not.
Back with paper FPs, GACs were an equal trouble as the current DAS because GACs acted like an unlimited FP. Back then, I was just a wee little front-line CM on multiple E-ticket attractions trying to tell management how bad the issue was. But since nothing was electronically recorded, I had no proof beyond my own observation; and a little nobody like me wasn't going to be listened to. And even the managers who knew it was an issue weren't going to speak up, because no one wants to accuse anyone of faking disabilities. Which is understandable. But as an example, I once had a lady come up to me with her brand new GAC, looked me in the eyes and said, "My husband sometimes wobbles if he stands, so they gave us this. It's a fastpass, right?" Yeah. They were giving them out for WOBBLING.
Anyway, fast-forward to FP+ and the DAS...I think that was the smartest FP-related move they ever made at the time. The new DAS was no longer an unlimited FP+. The appeal to abuse it was diminished. I'm sure it was still abused by the same people that abused the GAC, but I never again saw the same families running through the FP line a dozen times or more on their favorite E-tickets because...they couldn't. It automatically cut down abuse just by it's very nature.
I've been gone from the company since covid, so I can't speak to their current issues from a first-hand experience. Apparently FP+ didn't "work," whatever that meant. It always worked for me as a frequent visitor with my kids - and I was often a day-of planner. But whatever. Disney decided to go to Genie+. Now, what once was free is now an additional fee. Per person. Per day. Access to a line that guests were used to using for free for 2 decades was now going to cost hundreds of dollars more for their family to use.
But wait, some people still get to access that line? With no money involved at all? Listen, it's despicable that there are people who would lie about disabilities. But honestly? I get it. Don't get me wrong, I don't condone it! But I get it. You can argue until you're blue in the face that DAS doesn't offer any advantage. But obviously it does, otherwise we wouldn't have people willing to lie about not being able to control their bowels in order to use it. Even if people use it and can only access the lightning lane 3 times a day, well...that's the same number of FP+ people were able to use with that system for free. And I think more people are abusing it now than ever abused the GAC because - again, some people essentially get it for free. The accommodations are perceived to be better than what is offered to able-bodied guests, since there's no free FP anymore. I'm not saying it's true. But it's the perception. And again...it's FREE. Not to mention, you can use it for rides that have “sold out” their LL.
So between Disney not having enough capacity for FP system that works well on top of charging for the LL, they screwed themselves, and in turn, guests - both able-bodied and not.
Last edited:
flynnibus
Premium Member
You are multiple groups still competing for the same attraction capacity. But WHO you impact changes based on which line you are in because of the ratios.
These are not 'front of the line' services - There are two queues, a high priority one and a low priority one. (and separately rules about when you can enter a queue)
People in the high priority queue impact both groups. People in the low priority queue do not impact the people in the high priority queue as significantly.
If you just created a third queue, that was treated the same priority and same ratio as the existing high priority queue.. you don't really help either existing audience.
Just moving people from the high to low queue doesn't change the attraction capacity - but it does reduce how long people in the high priority queue wait... thus effectively increasing the amount of free capacity you have in the queue if you have a target for the maximum wait time.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I feel like what is being missed here is the #1 problem is the actual wait times for the attractions. I mentioned it before but does anyone remember how Disney was testing ways to keep people from waiting in long physical lines? Dumbo at MK with the Circus Tent and pagers and also Rock n roller coaster with the DJ out front?
if Disney addressed the actual problem it would be a solution for everyone.
if Disney addressed the actual problem it would be a solution for everyone.
pigglewiggle
Well-Known Member
Every theme park in the world has lines. Long lines. Thatvis not just a Disney issue.
dothebrdwalk
Well-Known Member
In no world can the health partner quiz a family about the disability in order to prove fraud. If the health partner is wrong about the accusation of fraud and the disability can be proven, Disney is looking at a big lawsuit.
As with the current system, you are unable to tap into the attraction unless the DAS user taps in first- making your argument here irrelevant.
Sometimes it isn't about the length of time but rather the circumstance of the line. I know many DAS holders who only use it for outside lines in the sunlight. Once again, showing that every circumstance is different and will be extremely difficult for Disney to prove fraud.
nickys
Premium Member
I’m going to take a “wild guess” here and say if you’re a party of 2 then it won’t be offered to you.
Did you miss the phrase some applicants?
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
And what does that have to do with what I said? Disney was working on a way to solve that… not sure why those tests didn’t go anywhere. Could be reasons I’m not aware of.
pigglewiggle
Well-Known Member
You said that's the main problem. I'm saying it's not a problem, it's just theme park reality. You will wait in lines.
And no one wants the solution, which is to pay up. Imagine the outrage if Disney started an express pass like most other theme parks.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Huh? Disney has that.
pigglewiggle
Well-Known Member
First, people are already outraged about Genie.
Second, it's not a real express pass.
If they offered a pass such as Universal for high cost, how would that be for a solution? I imagine people would be even angrier.
Yes from what I'm learning maybe Disney needs to do a few things like Universal.
DisneyHead123
Well-Known Member
A DAS exclusive line would not be a “third queue”. It would be a second point of entry for the standby queue.
If I’m understanding you correctly you’re saying that decreasing DAS users would increase space for Genie+ users. I don’t dispute that, what I said was that, hypothetically at least, this should only be because they compete for the same physical space.
Otherwise, DAS users are supposed to essentially be standby users, and this is like saying you have to decrease standby users so that you can increase Genie+ users. I mean maybe they do need standby caps, I don’t know, but that’s a separate issue from DAS. If that’s not the case, though, then a separate check-in point should solve the problem.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
Other than adding more capacity, there is nothing that can be done about waits. Waiting in line is part of going to a theme park.
Many here are going to hate this but as much as Disney created waiting in line problem, Disney guests are as much to blame. Everyone hates waiting in lines but waiting in lines is part of going to a theme park.
I have no issues with people that due to disabilities can't wait in long lines. IMO for everyone else DWI (deal with it)
flynnibus
Premium Member
That's the same thing as another line if anyone in the standby line waits beyond that point. And if they didn't, the 'point of entry' has zero purpose.
Not just G+ users, but LL users too. You're trying to say 'this doesn't add or subtract riders' - But that is only partially true and most of the other stuff you are saying is mangled as you try to make that point.
This doesn't change ride capacity. But because people are potentially waiting less time, they can also then increase the # of attraction riders in the park. In effect, by not being in one queue, they can be in another queue. And the reason DAS can wait less time than standby, is because variability in the LL/return line punishes standby the most.
Moving people out of the high priority queue benefits everyone, even if that person simply moves to the standby queue.
Anytime that check-in point skips someone else in standby line.. you've effectively created a 3rd queue. It doesn't matter if the queue has little to no depth.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
It doesn’t have to be… at least not long lines. I thought the pager system was great for more popular attractions and would serve all guests.
hopemax
Well-Known Member
Yep. As well as what Universal tried with Jimmy Fallon and Fast and the Furious. But neither of those rides were popular enough to stress test a new system.
I’m curious what they have planned for Epic Universe, as I expect Super Nintendo World is going to change the calculus somewhat on who wants to be in a Universal theme park. The facial recognition technology they are testing for ticket entry, could potentially be used to help address access for everyone, by using your face to checkin somewhere but wait elsewhere or at least not in tight switchback lines. And who know what else they have planned.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
It didn't serve all guests as there isn't enough capacity for everyone to use the paper system.
No matter the system, there will always be people waiting in standby.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
My guess is it will run no different than any other park. The majority of guests will be waiting in 2-3 hour lines for the major attractions.
This is becoming a circular argument. WDW does have paid options, but they also have a DAS which is NOT a paid option. The complaint is that those who have paid are allegedly being delayed getting on attractions by those who have not paid for a similar option, especially since many guests have lied/exaggerated to gain the similar, free option.
The arguments have been about how to fix this problem without having a negative impact on either group, while also not having an even more negative impact on guests who, for whatever reason, cannot or will not pay extra.
An express pass only works if a small % of guests have one. When the majority of guests have them - or something very similar - not only does it make the waits longer for those who do not have them, but also for those who have paid to have them. It then lowers the value of having one.
If there were more attractions, or the # of park guests decreased, or the number of guests allowed to purchase Genie+ & LL were capped, along with limiting the # of DAS users per day, it would help.
Only the first solution would make everyone happy.