New Concept Art

[Jon81uk]

Easy, because this is Disney World. Just because they're build a "mall" doesn't mean it can't be special or unique.

It's just another opportunity they're losing by not going the extra step and making Disney Springs something truly exciting and unique. The more they make things the same as something you could find at home, the less likely people are to spend the money to take a Disney vacation.

I've always loved Downtown Disney and the idea of a shopping district at WDW. Why not use it as a selling point and a draw, rather than just plopping a mall on property just to keep foreign tourists from spending their money elsewhere?

City Walk at Uni is a perfect example. It looks nothing like anything you'd find at home and has amazing atmosphere. It's part of the draw to staying at a Uni hotel and is another fantastic part of the Universal experience.

Disney Springs doesn't look to be any more of a draw to the Disney vacation than the Premier Outlets across I-4 (besides location).

The difference is West Side and The Landing (formerly Pleasure Island) are the equivilant to City Walk, there are bars, restaurants, small stores, a cinema etc. Marketplace and Town Center there is no equivalent at City Walk really, there isn't as much shopping at City Walk. Generally CityWalk is more about nightlife, whereas at DTD, Pleasure Island & the West Side is/was nightlife.

Also it is something that can't be found at home, if the USA isn't your home. At CityWalk at Universal Hollywood we got dinner and I bought loads of candy from It'Sugar as I can't get American candy as cheaply in the UK. If Goofy's at Marketplace actually sold less Disney-branded stuff and more Hershey's, Jelly Belly, M&Ms etc then trust me, there would be even more Brits shopping there.

 

[danlb_2000]

No, but the artist could have misunderstood that the top portion wasn't going to be utilized. I completely agree that they SHOULD utilize the top layer, but that doesn't mean it was ever part of the plan and it does seem to contradict why they were creating the highline in the first place (which was to give shade).

Why is this still being debated, it was part of the original plan.

 

[flynnibus]

The difference is West Side and The Landing (formerly Pleasure Island) are the equivilant to City Walk, there are bars, restaurants, small stores, a cinema etc. Marketplace and Town Center there is no equivalent at City Walk really, there isn't as much shopping at City Walk. Generally CityWalk is more about nightlife, whereas at DTD, Pleasure Island & the West Side is/was nightlife.

And now they are polarizing themselves even more... more shopping, more shopping, and less entertainment/uniqueness.

Win for duty/VAT shoppers... loss for most domestic travelers.

I already have huge shopping experiences like Tysons Corner around me... I won't be attracted to goto Disney vs somewhere else because they have a boutique mall on property.

And if Disney's mall is more expensive then the other malls in the area... are the UK shoppers who are in FL for 2 weeks going to stay at Disney's mall?

 

[GoofGoof]

Exactly but there's no reason it couldn't be themed and unique as well (as Pleasure Island and much of the existing DTD was). It is still part of Disney World after all.

It's just another thing that could be used to make the argument of spending the money to take a trip to Disney World rather than just staying home. It's about creating a place that's different from anything you could find anywhere else. The more that goes away, the less likely people are to visit Disney World.

I am pretty confident it will be themed and have the same high quality look and feel of the rest of DS. Those leaked renderings look a little off to me. People may not like or get the theme, but that's a different issue. In other words it won't just be cinder block buildings with the look of a local mall. When I say local mall I'm referring to a mall in the "mall capital" of the country, NJ. It won't likely be completely unique, but I'm ok with that as long as it's well done and fits in with the rest of Disney Springs (quality wise not necessarily the exact look).

I hear what you are saying about people going to WDW to experience something you can't get at home. The Town Center area is not that, but I would argue that Disney Springs combined offerings is unique and better than anything most guests have at home. I know near my house there isn't any mall or entertainment district that can compete with the total package. Plus I'm going for the parks. DS provides some ancillary activities that compliment my resort and park time. For me it's about the whole package and DS when complete will be a significant upgrade over DTD.

 

[Kman101]

CityWalk is overrated and I don't find it special or a draw. I can go to Panda Express or Burger King anytime I want. They have some unique options but so does Downtown Disney. I find neither all that special to be honest.

 

[Mouse Detective]

A few years ago Downtown Disney had 2 women's jeans stores added. Both closed. Jeans and other mall things are not what people are looking for at Disney World or at Disney's shopping center, even if they're from Europe or Brazil. Tourists are not stupid and they know there are real malls up the road with bargain prices. Disney Springs is going to have to deliver unique stores with items and brands not found up the road.

 

[Kman101]

The outlet malls aren't really that much of a bargain anymore though. Not from what I'm hearing. They're overcrowded and getting pricey. Not saying Disney won't be and they're going to be better, but I think Disney could actually do without the town center shopping mall. No one plans their trip to go to Downtown Disney or CityWalk. And locals constantly say how "touristy" they are. They need to find a way to appeal to both.

 

[mm121]

I'm sorry, but you're WAY too wrapped up on the "town" concept. It's just the name and something a story an imagineer came up with in (probably) an afternoon when some suit gave them the project to try to come up with a Disney-style concept to placate the fanbois. You're reading entirely too much into it.

The idea of utilizing the upper stories is completely silly as well. No one is going to want to walk a flight of stairs or wait for an elevator to shop. The old mall design is even dead. People want things on one floor where they can get on and get out. There was even a plan for turning the old Virgin site into an indoor mall but it was decided that plan was too risky because they were afraid people wouldn't want to come in and explore.

maybe i am wrapped up in the literal interpretation, but in the past disney held itself to a higher standard and the real life creation would live up to its name.

why is using the upper levels silly? new malls are still being built that have more than one level, and I dont know the last time i walked up a flight of stairs at a mall/public place, thats what escalators are for, by your theory there shouldn't be any 2 story stores anywhere, which would be just stupid.

when i said multiple levels i was meaning something similar to say merrick park in coral gables, where there are three levels of stores on one side that back up to the parking garage, and the other side is open to a park/lower level buildings, while the design would need tweeked to make it look more townish, it defintly would of been a better utilization in space at least in the section that backs up directly to the parking structure,

turning the virgin store into a mall would of been a bad idea as it would of been all closed up, I'm not proposing anything thats all closed up, but something open and airy that has visual sight lines all over the property.

Easy, because this is Disney World. Just because they're build a "mall" doesn't mean it can't be special or unique.

It's just another opportunity they're losing by not going the extra step and making Disney Springs something truly exciting and unique. The more they make things the same as something you could find at home, the less likely people are to spend the money to take a Disney vacation.

I've always loved Downtown Disney and the idea of a shopping district at WDW. Why not use it as a selling point and a draw, rather than just plopping a mall on property just to keep foreign tourists from spending their money elsewhere?

City Walk at Uni is a perfect example. It looks nothing like anything you'd find at home and has amazing atmosphere. It's part of the draw to staying at a Uni hotel and is another fantastic part of the Universal experience.

Disney Springs doesn't look to be any more of a draw to the Disney vacation than the Premier Outlets across I-4 (besides location).

the risk they run with this "mall" is that for some its possible the mall component will become the first thing that comes to mind, and it may overshaddow many of the other offerings that disney springs has to offer

and its possible that people may avoid going to disney springs, for fear of dealing with mall traffic parking etc, just in order to grab a meal etc.

The outlet malls aren't really that much of a bargain anymore though. Not from what I'm hearing. They're overcrowded and getting pricey. Not saying Disney won't be and they're going to be better, but I think Disney could actually do without the town center shopping mall. No one plans their trip to go to Downtown Disney or CityWalk. And locals constantly say how "touristy" they are. They need to find a way to appeal to both.

agreed, they are on a line that will need to be managed. as if the shops aren't what tourists want they will go off property anyways, and if the stores bring additional traffic/ headaches that could scare away locals who just want to stop by for a meal but dont want to deal with going to the "mall"

 

[Ignohippo]

Why is this still being debated, it was part of the original plan.

You even stated it was only on the rendering. It doesn't mean it was part of the plan. Artists very often take liberties with these types of renderings.

 

[Pumbaa1222]

And now they are polarizing themselves even more... more shopping, more shopping, and less entertainment/uniqueness.

Win for duty/VAT shoppers... loss for most domestic travelers.

I already have huge shopping experiences like Tysons Corner around me... I won't be attracted to goto Disney vs somewhere else because they have a boutique mall on property.

And if Disney's mall is more expensive then the other malls in the area... are the UK shoppers who are in FL for 2 weeks going to stay at Disney's mall?

Not all of "domestic travelers" have expansive malls around them. At least 1/3 of Americans live in more rural areas that don't have all the same national chains. I'm from the most populated/developed part of a small area, and I'm thrilled to be able to walk around this "mall" and check out stuff I don't get to see every day.

Disney Springs has many different "zones" for a reason, so appeal to many different people.

 

[danlb_2000]

You even stated it was only on the rendering. It doesn't mean it was part of the plan. Artists very often take liberties with these types of renderings.

Then I follow up with a link to the video of the official Disney announcement of the project where they say that the top of the highline would be used for seating.

Here is a video of the official annoucement froom Disney, at 9:25 they say that the plan was to allow people to sit on top.

 

[flynnibus]

Not all of "domestic travelers" have expansive malls around them. At least 1/3 of Americans live in more rural areas that don't have all the same national chains. I'm from the most populated/developed part of a small area, and I'm thrilled to be able to walk around this "mall" and check out stuff I don't get to see every day.

I get that... but is it going to draw you to visit Disney? Or cause you to extend your stay? Or cause you to spend money you might not have otherwise?

Those international shoppers are still the whales... because of the tax/duty and market size issues.

 

[Ignohippo]

Then I follow up with a link to the video of the official Disney announcement of the project where they say that the top of the highline would be used for seating.

Here is a video of the official annoucement froom Disney, at 9:25 they say that the plan was to allow people to sit on top.

Good to know. Thanks for correcting me and digging up the original statements.

I always thought it was a great idea (just never saw definitive proof that it was part of the original plans). If it was cut because they were afraid of people throwing things, then I'd think there would be ways to alleviate that possibility. It's a shame the upper story seating was cut. It really makes no sense not to have it.

 

[Next Big Thing]

Ehrm, since when did leaked 3D renders suddenly become concept art?

It's clear that these renders, in the areas where we can already see finished work, do not represent the exact look and feel of the areas, but instead the overall technical approach. And for gods sake, they leaked, nothing officially released by Disney, which means they could be old and outdated and what not.

Yeah, it looked like something that was made in Minecraft more than actual concept art.

 

[LL2WDW]

I get that... but is it going to draw you to visit Disney? Or cause you to extend your stay? Or cause you to spend money you might not have otherwise?

Those international shoppers are still the whales... because of the tax/duty and market size issues.

But...did Downtown Disney, or the Village Market ever draw you to Disney for your vacation?

They are expanding an already existing shopping and dining venue (and a very popular one at that!). Why does it suddenly have to be a main reason you visit Disney? DS was never meant to be a main draw. Rather, an improved and expanded amenity of a vast resort complex.

 

[Next Big Thing]

But...did Downtown Disney, or the Village Market ever draw you to Disney for your vacation?

They are expanding an already existing shopping and dining venue (and a very popular one at that!). Why does it suddenly have to be a main reason you visit Disney? DS was never meant to be a main draw. Rather, an improved and expanded amenity of a vast resort complex.

well tbh, Pleasure Island was a draw in and of itself. Mannequinns was one of the best dance clubs in the COUNTRY for it's entire existence, the comedy clubs offered a nice way to end the day and were both different experiences and the other clubs also were different, yet still fun.

I don't doubt that The Landing will be a great place to bar hop. However, if I want to bar hop, there's plenty of other places not only in Orlando, but on property that I can do that.

People planned trips specifically around going to PI. DS won't have guests doing that.

 

[GoofGoof]

But...did Downtown Disney, or the Village Market ever draw you to Disney for your vacation?

They are expanding an already existing shopping and dining venue (and a very popular one at that!). Why does it suddenly have to be a main reason you visit Disney? DS was never meant to be a main draw. Rather, an improved and expanded amenity of a vast resort complex.

PI did for a certain demographic. I visited WDW when I was 19 with a group of college friends. We probably would have gone anyway, but knowing PI was there made it a must do for us.

Outside of PI I can't imagine anyone going on vacation just to shop, but some people do really, really like it.

 

[GoofGoof]

maybe i am wrapped up in the literal interpretation, but in the past disney held itself to a higher standard and the real life creation would live up to its name.

why is using the upper levels silly? new malls are still being built that have more than one level, and I dont know the last time i walked up a flight of stairs at a mall/public place, thats what escalators are for, by your theory there shouldn't be any 2 story stores anywhere, which would be just stupid.

when i said multiple levels i was meaning something similar to say merrick park in coral gables, where there are three levels of stores on one side that back up to the parking garage, and the other side is open to a park/lower level buildings, while the design would need tweeked to make it look more townish, it defintly would of been a better utilization in space at least in the section that backs up directly to the parking structure,

turning the virgin store into a mall would of been a bad idea as it would of been all closed up, I'm not proposing anything thats all closed up, but something open and airy that has visual sight lines all over the property.
View attachment 76093
View attachment 76094



the risk they run with this "mall" is that for some its possible the mall component will become the first thing that comes to mind, and it may overshaddow many of the other offerings that disney springs has to offer

and its possible that people may avoid going to disney springs, for fear of dealing with mall traffic parking etc, just in order to grab a meal etc.



agreed, they are on a line that will need to be managed. as if the shops aren't what tourists want they will go off property anyways, and if the stores bring additional traffic/ headaches that could scare away locals who just want to stop by for a meal but dont want to deal with going to the "mall"

My hope is that the Town Center section will have the same feel of quality as the mall in these pictures. It might not have the multiple levels, but I think if it meets the standards of the rest of the project it will at least look very nice.

I think for locals they do run the risk of people avoiding the area if it becomes too popular. The direct highway access should make getting in and out easy, but if you want to avoid crowds and tourists especially during busy times it won't likely be an inviting place to go. Being a victim of its own success isn't a bad thing as long as people are actually spending money and not just browsing and soaking in some of the free entertainment.

I'm still not sure what happened to the indoor section from the concept art. Maybe that's still on the table or maybe the plans have changed. We'll have to wait until more construction gets underway to know.

 

[flynnibus]

But...did Downtown Disney, or the Village Market ever draw you to Disney for your vacation?

They are expanding an already existing shopping and dining venue (and a very popular one at that!). Why does it suddenly have to be a main reason you visit Disney? DS was never meant to be a main draw. Rather, an improved and expanded amenity of a vast resort complex.

Don't make a strawman by twisting my question. I never said anything about 'main reason'. But just like Typhoon Lagoon, or hitting elements of AK you like... they were reasons that when added up helped tip the scales to do Disney.. and extend.. and spend more.

They aren't really expanding an existing shopping and dining venue. They are replacing dining and entertainment with 3rd party shopping and some dining and limited entertainment. And IMO, the replacements don't have any appeal. So in my particular situation - the only thing they are doing is making DTD more of a shopping destination for Central FL and finally filling in the PI dead zone.

 

[GoofGoof]

Don't make a strawman by twisting my question. I never said anything about 'main reason'. But just like Typhoon Lagoon, or hitting elements of AK you like... they were reasons that when added up helped tip the scales to do Disney.. and extend.. and spend more.

They aren't really expanding an existing shopping and dining venue. They are replacing dining and entertainment with 3rd party shopping and some dining and limited entertainment. And IMO, the replacements don't have any appeal. So in my particular situation - the only thing they are doing is making DTD more of a shopping destination for Central FL and finally filling in the PI dead zone.

Unless you count the long closed PI clubs there isn't anything being replaced is there? The Town Center area is being built on an existing parking lot. Cap'n Jack's is the only restaurant that closed to make way for the new bridge area. They are adding a bunch of new restaurants and bars to the total area. The existing entertainment (Disney Quest, Cirque, HOB, Splitsville, AMC theater, balloon thingy) is all still part of the new DS.

The new nightlife is unlikely to live up to what PI once was, but it should be a whole lot better than what existed for the last decade or so and there will be a significant upgrade on dining. I'm not sure how this project is replacing dining and entertainment with shopping. It really is an expansion.