Movement for the Death of FASTPASS

i think one way that would majorly improve fastpass would be if guests staying at
WDW resorts were the only ones who could get them (and i know im about to get some hate from OP stayers for saying this)
 

ELopez

Member
I, for one, love the Fastpass system. But then again, I'm not the least bit spontaneous. We've got our daily itineraries and touring plans mapped out 179 days before we go - with specified Fastpass retrieval and redemption times included.

While some may not like the meticulous planning, I do. Sure, I have to criss-cross the parks and go out of my way to get Fastpasses, but I can also tour an entire park in 1/2 to 3/4 of a day, and then go enjoy my hotel, go swimming, take a nap, or just plan relax until dinner, fireworks and EMH.

Fastpass is ingenious. But the one MAJOR flaw is not enforcing the return time. That's the primary reason the standby lines are longer because of FP. The gigantic algorithm that calculates the dispense rate of FPs assumes that the recipient can only come back in his/her allotted time frame. Don't blame Fastpass for the long lines - blame the lax rules.

I do think it would be a good idea to restrict usage to only those staying at a WDW resort. It would cut down the number of people able to use it by at least 1/3 every day, and create one more perk for Disney to use when marketing their hotels.

I don't think they should ever charge for it, because that's one thing they can definitely hold over UO and 6 Flags' heads - it's FREE at Disney!


I totally agree.
 

NewfieFan

Well-Known Member
Or, you could just do what I do for rides I like back to back rerides on, and wait until you collect two or three FPs and then ride back to back (to back!) with basically a walk-on time for each ride! ;) (Another option, of course, is to do the back to back rides right after rope drop without needing FP, but one cannot start with EVERYTHING in the first hour after rope drop, and FP is very helpful to get re-rides in these cases).

Personally, I love the system and find it EXPONENTIALLY increases my enjoyment of the parks.

Thanks to FP, I can go to the MK on the most crowded day of the year (such as New Year's Eve) and get on every attraction in the park and still have time to repeat favorites after that. This would be IMPOSSIBLE to do on a crowded day before the invention of FP! I remember the amount of rides/attractions I could do on a full day before FP, and know for a fact I can get on more now! In my case, at least, my benefit from FP is not an illusion; it's a reality!

Plus, I find it superior to EVERY other "virtual queue" system at other parks because it is FREE and DEMOCRATIC. It is available to EVERYONE regardless of whether you have an AP or a one day ticket. It is free to EVERYONE regardless of whether you are spending 200 bucks a night in a deluxe WDW resort, 200 bucks a week on Highway 192, or not spending ANYTHING on a hotel because you live in the area.

Since everyone has equal access, I feel no guilt whatsoever about utilizing the system to the fullest.

I find Fastpass actually INCREASES my ability to be "spontaneous" in the parks. If I want to ride a FP attraction in the middle of a crowded day, with minimal wait, I can now do so.

Regarding the idea that some have mentioned that using them past the one hour window is "breaking the rules", I have asked numerous Cast Members, ranging from entry-level, front line CMs, to coordinators, to MANAGEMENT about this, and there is NO RULE FORBIDING THIS. I have been clearly told by everyone I asked that Fastpasses DO NOT EXPIRE as long as you use it on the date printed on it, at any point AFTER the first time listed. The rules on the back of the ticket only state that they cannot be accepted early, and must be used on the date printed.

At the "Stars Of the Saga" show at Star Wars Weekends, 2010, the stormtroopers actually talked about this during the always-funny preshow! I may not remember the dialogue exactly, but it went something like this:

Trooper 1: I have to get out of here, I have a Fastpass for Toy Story Midway Mania!

Trooper 2: You can go later. They are good all day long, as long as you use them AFTER the first time listed.

Trooper 1: Really? I did not know that!

Trooper 2: Not a lot of people do!

As far as "negative effects" caused by people using them "late", IMO this all evens out. If someone has a one hour window between say, 12 and 1 PM, and doesn't show up at that time, this means the FP line was one person SHORTER between that hour and whenever the person does show up. So if they come back 6 hours later, 6 hours worth of standby people got on slightly quicker by the FP person coming back "late". By being "late" by six hours, one is, in effect, giving six hours worth of people "cuts", before returning to the line in front of people you are allowed to ride ahead of anyway, due to having the Fastpass acting as a "virtual placeholder" in the queue.

In my experience, when I use one "late", it is often more helpful to the standby queue than if I had been "on time".

For example, when I start with Fantasyland at Park Opening, I can usually finish the entire section in under 90 minutes right after the rope drops. Since this is my favorite section, I often grab a FP for Peter Pan's Flight and/or Pooh while I'm there in the morning, so that if I have time to repeat FL favorites during the magical night hours after I've finished the rest of the park, I know I'm set up with guaranteed walk-ons.

Now, to come back during the "one hour return time" would mean backtracking to attractions I've already ridden that day when I'm more interested in doing the sections and attractions I HAVEN'T done yet. It would also mean coming back to Pan and/or Pooh when the queue is packed in the late morning or early afternoon and being more of an inconvenience to those in the standby line.

But let's say I wait and revisit FL late at night, after the fireworks, during the last hour of the night. Most times Pooh is a walk-on, so I might not even need to use the FP. But if the line is backed up a little bit, having that FP in my pocket serves as "insurance" of a guaranteed walk-on and makes my last hour more "spontaneous" and magical by helping me avoid any waits and therefore get more late-night "goodbye rides" on favorite attractions. Same with Peter Pan, which is more likely to have a line during the last hour than Pooh. But if I do use the Peter Pan FP, this line is always MUCH shorter at this time than if I had ridden during the "One hour window", so by riding "late" in these cases, I'm actually inconveniencing FAR less people than I would have if I had used it during the first available hour when BOTH the standby and FP lines are MUCH more crowded.

I get the option of a guaranteed late night Peter Pan walk-on, which makes my last hour more "spontaneous" and magical; and all the people who waited in the standby and FP queues for the several hours before I used my FP got on ONE PERSON QUICKER because I DIDN'T use it "on time"! (And the people in back of me that last hour get on exactly when they would have had I used it earlier anyway, because I was technically ahead of them in line by virtue of having the Fastpass.)

I LOVE Disney's Fastpass system that ANYONE in the parks is free and welcome to enjoy. May it live FOREVER!!!!!

What he said!

I don't understand all this talk of enforcing the return time... what difference does it make. I have a FP so the system is assuming I will be riding it that day. Whether I ride it at 2pm or 3:30pm, what difference does it make!?! I understand the argument of "What happens when there's an influx of people during a certain hour?"... but the people that showed up during that hour weren't there the hour before... so technically the stand by line moved quicker in the last hour b/c the FP folks who were suppose to be there were not!

I like FP, I use it to my advantage, and there are rides I would never get to ride unless I was there first thing in the morning to experience them! I just don't wait an hour with two small kids!
 

ms7479a

Well-Known Member
As I see it, the fastpass system can best be summed up by the following:

Fastpass is great for those people who have a fastpass for a given attraction, but it is not so good for those people waiting in line who do not have a fastpass.
 

Susan Savia

Well-Known Member
I agree with CMatt...if you snooze then you lose! There are only a few attractions we actually use the Fast Pass system for in the parks. But it does work and it does help. I do think they should enforce the timing on them...if it says 1:00 to 2:00, then it should be. They enforce when you can get on it is most cases, why not the ending time? AND CM's need to check all ticket times, not just holding up a ticket and walking in.
 

MAGICFLOP

Well-Known Member
if you paid and it was only for resort guests then the system would be even quicker

i personally think it would be better if you could 2 or 3 fastpasses at the same time

I think multiple past passes make the system pointless. They should allow every guest 2 fast passes per day. This way each guest spends them on the 2 attractions they truly don't want to miss. Then the the fast pass line moves very fast and standby faster. Most importantly fast passes for soaring or TS wont run out by 11am.

Nothing more frustrating then having to miss your favorite ride cause it's too crowded...
 

cmatt

Active Member
I agree with CMatt...if you snooze then you lose! There are only a few attractions we actually use the Fast Pass system for in the parks. But it does work and it does help. I do think they should enforce the timing on them...if it says 1:00 to 2:00, then it should be. They enforce when you can get on it is most cases, why not the ending time? AND CM's need to check all ticket times, not just holding up a ticket and walking in.

unfortunately - as pumbas said the baying public (when adding the shallow gene pool) are a tad difficult when it comes to:

a) knowing they are in the wrong and have turned up late, but still swearing that the earth orbits round the moon and that it is indeed flat - rather than admit that they are complete imbeciles that have turned up late. The time based system I assume is actually load balancing the ride on an hourly basis.

b) taking things then not actually acting upon them (would be interesting to see the ratio of 'no show' fast pass holder.

^ these two - alone, makes a free fast pass system inefficient... a tiered system would be better with 'bolt ons' for the park ticket. i.e 2 free fast passes a day then make the premium fastpass a reasonable amount so that people would actually use it - would wean out the no shows and people would then actually use their fast passes.......

disney hotel guests only? (who ever said that) - would work for the hotel guests but there is a high proportion of the british contingent (and other europeans) that opt for villas instead of hotels as it is cheaper - you get EMH - so that is more than enough.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
The only reason you, or anyone, perceives any real sort of benefit from Fastpass is because you HAVE to utilize it to avoid the longer wait times that Fastpass itself created in the first place.
That's the most ridiculous poppycock I've ever heard.

I don't "perceive" any real sort of benefit, I experience a significant benefit every time I use the FastPass system to my advantage.

You can fantasize all you want about how great WDW would be if FPs went away, but you'd be wrong. There's no question the regular line would move faster if there were no FP line, but it would also be exponentially longer so you'd end up ultimately waiting nearly as long anyway. Potentially longer since two hours' worth of guests arriving to claim fastpasses who would otherwise be elsewhere waiting their turn would also now be in front of you.

In an overly simplistic view: If everyone who would pick up a fastpass entered the regular line instead and the ride through-put remained the same, when you arrived to enter the regular line, it would just be that many people longer in front of you and you'd end up actually loading at the same time as you would have anyway. Now, I will grant that there would be some intelligent folk in attendance who, on seeing a one-hour+ wat would opt not to ride at all, so chances are you'd get loaded slightly faster, but not as fast as you seem to think.

Rides had faster lines before FastPass was introduced in large part because WDW had fewer guests then than now.
 

cmatt

Active Member
That's the most ridiculous poppycock I've ever heard.

I don't "perceive" any real sort of benefit, I experience a significant benefit every time I use the FastPass system to my advantage.

You can fantasize all you want about how great WDW would be if FPs went away, but you'd be wrong. There's no question the regular line would move faster if there were no FP line, but it would also be exponentially longer so you'd end up ultimately waiting nearly as long anyway. Potentially longer since two hours' worth of guests arriving to claim fastpasses who would otherwise be elsewhere waiting their turn would also now be in front of you.

In an overly simplistic view: If everyone who would pick up a fastpass entered the regular line instead and the ride through-put remained the same, when you arrived to enter the regular line, it would just be that many people longer in front of you and you'd end up actually loading at the same time as you would have anyway. Now, I will grant that there would be some intelligent folk in attendance who, on seeing a one-hour+ wat would opt not to ride at all, so chances are you'd get loaded slightly faster, but not as fast as you seem to think.

Rides had faster lines before FastPass was introduced in large part because WDW had fewer guests then than now.

moreover if t was load balanced appropriately (modelling the queues at different times in a day and allocating fp time slots) and timings on the FP adheared to, the lines would move even quicker :)
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
moreover if t was load balanced appropriately (modelling the queues at different times in a day and allocating fp time slots) and timings on the FP adheared to, the lines would move even quicker :)
Perhaps, but if I arrive to get an FP and the current times being distributed happen to coincide with my ADR at Le Cellier, I'm quite happy to know they'll let me ride after the times on my FP. If I could choose from available timeslots while I'm at the FP machine, then I'd be happy to honour the timeslot I get, but without knowing when a preferred slot will be available, I can't necessarily pick a window that is 100% perfectly aligned with things I booked six months prior.

Disney's system works just fine.
 

David S.

Member
unfortunately - as pumbas said the baying public (when adding the shallow gene pool) are a tad difficult when it comes to:

a) knowing they are in the wrong and have turned up late, but still swearing that the earth orbits round the moon and that it is indeed flat - rather than admit that they are complete imbeciles that have turned up late. The time based system I assume is actually load balancing the ride on an hourly basis.

b) taking things then not actually acting upon them (would be interesting to see the ratio of 'no show' fast pass holder.

Sorry, but when MANAGERS tell me they don't consider it "Breaking the rules" by coming anytime between the first time and park closing, I don't consider that a rule, nor is anyone who comes "late" an "imbecile".

But if people on these boards want to get upset about people "breaking rules" that as far as the people operating the parks are concerned DO NOT EXIST, that's their perogative!

EDITED TO ADD: I found a video of the stormtroopers saying it's OK to use a "late" FP as long as it's after the first time listed. So you know coming late must not be considered "breaking the rules" since the stormtroopers are real sticklers for following the rules! But seriously, Disney would not have allowed this dialogue if they weren't OK with people using them "late". The dialogue about FP begins at around the 1:55 mark of this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C1KJS3aOtQ

Also, there is nothing wrong with taking a FP that you think you might need, and then not using it for whatever reason (didn't have time to do the extra ride you were getting it for; ended up not needing it because the standby queue became a walk-on, etc). If anything, not using a FP even though you have one makes the standby wait shorter, so that should make the FP haters happy!
 

GoofyFan1

Active Member
In theory, the FASTPASS system works. Guests use their park tickets to make a reservation for a return time (in the form of a ticket known as a FASTPASS), which guarantees them a short wait time of 10-20 minutes.

However, at the most popular attractions (like Toy Story Midway Mania or Soarin'), these FASTPASSes just plain run out, sometimes before noon. Then, for the rest of the day, other guests feel cheated because they didn't have the opportunity to get a FASTPASS before they were gone.

The FASTPASS is also responsible for those insane Standby wait times. Because FASTPASS has priority, the Standby line is held while a certain number FASTPASS guests move forward through the line. Then, a much smaller number of Standby move forward. Then, a much larger number of FASTPASS move forward, and so forth. The ratio allows so that FASTPASS has a much shorter wait time than Standby... which results in a much longer wait for Standby.

If there was no FASTPASS, the Standby line would continue moving and the wait time would be significantly less. Thus, every guest is a VIP and has the same wait time, rather than some guests leaving with the feeling that they are not so much of a priority as those with a FASTPASS.

I don't think this is fair. I think it causes more problems than it solves. I think it works for shows like Finding Nemo the Musical and Indiana Jones because both sets of guests enter the theater at the same time. One line isn't held while the other goes through. When it comes to attractions, however, it just isn't the most effective way to handle a line.

What do you guys think? Wouldn't the removal of FASTPASS make the system more fair?

NO!
Learn how to use it, plan, and then enjoy. The great thing about WDW's fastpass is that it is available to ALL visitors without shelling out another $25 for moving to the front of the line.
What I would like is for people to stop whinning about how fastpqass doesn't work or isn't fair. It just takes a couple of seconds to look at the times board and decide which ride/attraction would be the best to get thhe fastpass for. For the traditionally busy rides like Soarin...go right there for your pass first thing and then wait the hour before you can get another fastpass. There's a wicked good chance that your return time for Soarin will be in the afternoon so go enjoy the park and then go back to enjoy the shorter line.
BTW...If some visitors arrive at the park later and expect fastpasses for those rides they're going to learn quickly to arrive earlier. If visitors aren't savy enough to use fastpass, too bad for them life isn't fair and you are already a VIP by having access to free fastpasses.:shrug:
 

wizards8507

Active Member
NO!
Learn how to use it, plan, and then enjoy. The great thing about WDW's fastpass is that it is available to ALL visitors without shelling out another $25 for moving to the front of the line.
What I would like is for people to stop whinning about how fastpqass doesn't work or isn't fair. It just takes a couple of seconds to look at the times board and decide which ride/attraction would be the best to get thhe fastpass for. For the traditionally busy rides like Soarin...go right there for your pass first thing and then wait the hour before you can get another fastpass. There's a wicked good chance that your return time for Soarin will be in the afternoon so go enjoy the park and then go back to enjoy the shorter line.
BTW...If some visitors arrive at the park later and expect fastpasses for those rides they're going to learn quickly to arrive earlier. If visitors aren't savy enough to use fastpass, too bad for them life isn't fair and you are already a VIP by having access to free fastpasses.:shrug:

I agree completely. Right now, I'm pretty sure that *most* people don't even know how to use FASTPASS in the first place. Let's say that 30% use FASTPASS. Hypothetically, Disney starts charging for FASTPASS and that number drops to 25%. Is this really going to make any difference? Right now, the system benefits those who are smart enough to use it. If they were to start charging, it would only benefit those who are smart enough to use it AND frivolous enough to pay for it.

This will be my retirement from this thread. I don't know why I can't stay away, but it makes me want to jump out the window onto an exploding firework.
 
Absolutely correct, however, the Fastpass machines themselves calculate under the assumption that only a certain number of Fastpasses return during any hour window. If the "return window" was actually a rule, the Fastpass line would be more regulated and there would never be too many* people in the Fastpass line.

*in theory. Ignoring people in the Fastpass line with guest relations passes, child swap tickets, etc.
That "wait time of 1" would be significantly reduced without Fastpass, and in the end it would just even out to where you spend the same amount of time in lines either way.

For all of you doubting that no fastpass = faster moving standby line, seriously, just go to any park at opening or during an evening EMH when Fastpass is not distributed.

It makes me "wonder about the intelligence" of people on a messageboard unwilling to admit that some things at Disney are in fact, not perfect, and OMGZ ITS BETTAR THAN UNIVERSELS BCUZ ITZ FREE LOLOL!!!1"

If you go to Universal on a crowded day, their Express Pass is totally worth the money, and I never once thought I was being ripped off for having to pay for it because of just how much more you benefit from having it.

The only reason you, or anyone, perceives any real sort of benefit from Fastpass is because you HAVE to utilize it to avoid the longer wait times that Fastpass itself created in the first place.
it's really not that hard to figure out how to use a fastpass to benefit you. get one and go wait in line for another ride. not that hard. hit the popular rides early and often. so basically you want long lines for everything that way you can't get as much done during the day??? is that right?
 
Fastpass is a great concept for those with the intelligence to figure out how it works. Mongs tend to get upset at its complexity and whine insesiently on message boards about it. But then thats the risk when your dads wife is also his sister.
perfectly said!!! fastpass is the best thing to help with lines:sohappy:
 

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