Movement for the Death of FASTPASS

wizards8507

Active Member
*Edit

As proof that fastpass has very little to do with standby wait time, EVERY park that has been cited as having the wonderful "pay" fastpass has huge standby wait times just the same as WDW. Difference is, the benefit of fastpass is only available to the ruling elite.
 

thelookingglass

Well-Known Member
The Disney set ratio of Fastpass to Standby is about 80% to 20%. However, when it is crowded, it can go up to 90% or even 95%.

This means that on any given crowded day, where there is a constant flow of Fastpass users, the standby line comes to a grinding hault because only 10% of the people riding are actually from the standby line.

Ever notice at Disney how the standby lines move much faster in the first hour of the park being open? This is because there is not enough Fastpass people returning yet to make an impact. A line length that would take 30 minutes in the afternoon takes 10 minutes without Fastpass.

Lets say I want to ride Test Track and have a Fastpass. I use it, ride, and then I want to ride again. Now I have to wait 80 minutes because of Fastpass. Remove Fastpass completely and I would have waited something like 20 minutes each time instead. Its all a big catch-22 and Fastpass only gives you the illusion that you are benefiting from it.
 

Krack

Active Member
*Edit

As proof that fastpass has very little to do with standby wait time, EVERY park that has been cited as having the wonderful "pay" fastpass has huge standby wait times just the same as WDW. Difference is, the benefit of fastpass is only available to the ruling elite.

Um ... this isn't really "proof" that fastpass has very little to do with standby wait time. It might be proof of something, but not that.
 

David S.

Member
Lets say I want to ride Test Track and have a Fastpass. I use it, ride, and then I want to ride again. Now I have to wait 80 minutes because of Fastpass. Remove Fastpass completely and I would have waited something like 20 minutes each time instead. Its all a big catch-22 and Fastpass only gives you the illusion that you are benefiting from it.

Or, you could just do what I do for rides I like back to back rerides on, and wait until you collect two or three FPs and then ride back to back (to back!) with basically a walk-on time for each ride! ;) (Another option, of course, is to do the back to back rides right after rope drop without needing FP, but one cannot start with EVERYTHING in the first hour after rope drop, and FP is very helpful to get re-rides in these cases).

Personally, I love the system and find it EXPONENTIALLY increases my enjoyment of the parks.

Thanks to FP, I can go to the MK on the most crowded day of the year (such as New Year's Eve) and get on every attraction in the park and still have time to repeat favorites after that. This would be IMPOSSIBLE to do on a crowded day before the invention of FP! I remember the amount of rides/attractions I could do on a full day before FP, and know for a fact I can get on more now! In my case, at least, my benefit from FP is not an illusion; it's a reality!

Plus, I find it superior to EVERY other "virtual queue" system at other parks because it is FREE and DEMOCRATIC. It is available to EVERYONE regardless of whether you have an AP or a one day ticket. It is free to EVERYONE regardless of whether you are spending 200 bucks a night in a deluxe WDW resort, 200 bucks a week on Highway 192, or not spending ANYTHING on a hotel because you live in the area.

Since everyone has equal access, I feel no guilt whatsoever about utilizing the system to the fullest.

I find Fastpass actually INCREASES my ability to be "spontaneous" in the parks. If I want to ride a FP attraction in the middle of a crowded day, with minimal wait, I can now do so.

Regarding the idea that some have mentioned that using them past the one hour window is "breaking the rules", I have asked numerous Cast Members, ranging from entry-level, front line CMs, to coordinators, to MANAGEMENT about this, and there is NO RULE FORBIDING THIS. I have been clearly told by everyone I asked that Fastpasses DO NOT EXPIRE as long as you use it on the date printed on it, at any point AFTER the first time listed. The rules on the back of the ticket only state that they cannot be accepted early, and must be used on the date printed.

At the "Stars Of the Saga" show at Star Wars Weekends, 2010, the stormtroopers actually talked about this during the always-funny preshow! I may not remember the dialogue exactly, but it went something like this:

Trooper 1: I have to get out of here, I have a Fastpass for Toy Story Midway Mania!

Trooper 2: You can go later. They are good all day long, as long as you use them AFTER the first time listed.

Trooper 1: Really? I did not know that!

Trooper 2: Not a lot of people do!


As far as "negative effects" caused by people using them "late", IMO this all evens out. If someone has a one hour window between say, 12 and 1 PM, and doesn't show up at that time, this means the FP line was one person SHORTER between that hour and whenever the person does show up. So if they come back 6 hours later, 6 hours worth of standby people got on slightly quicker by the FP person coming back "late". By being "late" by six hours, one is, in effect, giving six hours worth of people "cuts", before returning to the line in front of people you are allowed to ride ahead of anyway, due to having the Fastpass acting as a "virtual placeholder" in the queue.

In my experience, when I use one "late", it is often more helpful to the standby queue than if I had been "on time".

For example, when I start with Fantasyland at Park Opening, I can usually finish the entire section in under 90 minutes right after the rope drops. Since this is my favorite section, I often grab a FP for Peter Pan's Flight and/or Pooh while I'm there in the morning, so that if I have time to repeat FL favorites during the magical night hours after I've finished the rest of the park, I know I'm set up with guaranteed walk-ons.

Now, to come back during the "one hour return time" would mean backtracking to attractions I've already ridden that day when I'm more interested in doing the sections and attractions I HAVEN'T done yet. It would also mean coming back to Pan and/or Pooh when the queue is packed in the late morning or early afternoon and being more of an inconvenience to those in the standby line.

But let's say I wait and revisit FL late at night, after the fireworks, during the last hour of the night. Most times Pooh is a walk-on, so I might not even need to use the FP. But if the line is backed up a little bit, having that FP in my pocket serves as "insurance" of a guaranteed walk-on and makes my last hour more "spontaneous" and magical by helping me avoid any waits and therefore get more late-night "goodbye rides" on favorite attractions. Same with Peter Pan, which is more likely to have a line during the last hour than Pooh. But if I do use the Peter Pan FP, this line is always MUCH shorter at this time than if I had ridden during the "One hour window", so by riding "late" in these cases, I'm actually inconveniencing FAR less people than I would have if I had used it during the first available hour when BOTH the standby and FP lines are MUCH more crowded.

I get the option of a guaranteed late night Peter Pan walk-on, which makes my last hour more "spontaneous" and magical; and all the people who waited in the standby and FP queues for the several hours before I used my FP got on ONE PERSON QUICKER because I DIDN'T use it "on time"! (And the people in back of me that last hour get on exactly when they would have had I used it earlier anyway, because I was technically ahead of them in line by virtue of having the Fastpass.)

I LOVE Disney's Fastpass system that ANYONE in the parks is free and welcome to enjoy. May it live FOREVER!!!!!
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Fastpass is a great concept for those with the intelligence to figure out how it works. Mongs tend to get upset at its complexity and whine insesiently on message boards about it. But then thats the risk when your dads wife is also his sister.
 

David S.

Member
I do think it would be a good idea to restrict usage to only those staying at a WDW resort. It would cut down the number of people able to use it by at least 1/3 every day, and create one more perk for Disney to use when marketing their hotels.

So, locals, including those of us who moved near WDW to get "Closer to the Magic" year round or seasonally, would then have to do without something they are used to, and would start getting on a lot less attractions per day. Not everyone who doesn't stay onsite is being "cheap". If you LIVE in the area (year round or seasonally) you don't NEED a hotel! I spend thousands a year at WDW (food, souvenirs, AP cost) despite not needing a hotel. Taking away my FP privileges after having them for so long would make me feel like a second class citizen while in the parks, despite being an extremely loyal and frequent customer. Plus, resort guests already get extra perks like EMH. Taking away FP from everyone else would just contribute even further to the subtle sense that tourists who are resort guests are considered more "important" than locals.

So I am against this idea and respectfully disagree. And even if AP's were included too, I would still be against cutting off non-APs and non-resort guest from FP. I like Walt Disney's quote "At Disneyland, every guest is a VIP"!


I don't think they should ever charge for it, because that's one thing they can definitely hold over UO and 6 Flags' heads - it's FREE at Disney!

Now this, I agree with 100 Percent! ;)
 

The Disney Kid

Well-Known Member
With Fastpass I can go on two rides with the waittime of one. Why in the world would I want to change that? Makes me wonder about the intelligence of people who want to do away with fastpass.
 

parkgoer

Member
Not true. There are too many variables involved.

For example...

Let's say that everyone goes to Peter Pan at park open to grab a fastpass, and the return times range from 9:00AM - 12:00PM...but everyone who grabbed a fastpass decided to go back right after lunch, let's say at 1:00PM.

Everyone who is in the standby line now has 3 more hours worth of FP people potentially in front of them, not just those who would have returned at ~ 1:00PM.

The problem is the return time on the FP's are almost never enforced if it's after return window.

That puts a big wrench in the theory about FP's not causing longer standby lines. It's basically a crapshoot.

I agree that's a huge problem with it too. It must be that the majority of people returning are within that window that the ones arriving after the window won't throw off the line too much. It's also a problem that this is becoming known among guests.

It's funny how strictly they enforce the start time but not a word is mentioned when you show up 3 hours late..
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
With Fastpass I can go on two rides with the waittime of one. Why in the world would I want to change that? Makes me wonder about the intelligence of people who want to do away with fastpass.

If you only want to do 2 attractions, then it's great...if you want to do most attractions, you probably will eventually end up waiting longer for some than you normally would, due to lack of FP availability or not able to get a FP in the correct timeframe, etc.
 
WOW! fastpass is the best. you just have to know how to make them work to your advantage. get to the park early and make the popular rides your number one stop. if you figure out how to make them work for you, then you'll love them and can get a lot done in a short amount of time:sohappy:
 

Tom

Beta Return
So, locals, including those of us who moved near WDW to get "Closer to the Magic" year round or seasonally, would then have to do without something they are used to, and would start getting on a lot less attractions per day. Not everyone who doesn't stay onsite is being "cheap". If you LIVE in the area (year round or seasonally) you don't NEED a hotel! I spend thousands a year at WDW (food, souvenirs, AP cost) despite not needing a hotel. Taking away my FP privileges after having them for so long would make me feel like a second class citizen while in the parks, despite being an extremely loyal and frequent customer. Plus, resort guests already get extra perks like EMH. Taking away FP from everyone else would just contribute even further to the subtle sense that tourists who are resort guests are considered more "important" than locals.

I'm not even sure why I said that the way I did (it was almost 1am). What I should have said was IF they're wanting to limit the number of guests, I'd vote for the resort vs off-site thing. But throwing in FL residents would be a good gesture too. I'm sure they'd extend the offer to APers, so as not to make them mad, but most APers stay on property anyway (except FL residents, but they'd be covered).

Essentially, limiting access gets too complicated at WDW because there are too many groups or categories of guests. I like it how it is - FREE for everyone. It's a great selling point. They just really need to enforce the return time, even though there are arguments above that show how nice it is to come back anytime you want

Regarding the fact that it's not "really" a rule to enforce the come-back time, I'm thinking back to the early days of Fastpass when they DID enforce it. We were there during its infancy, and I clearly remember the CMs enforcing the come back time.

If it's not a rule now, it's because of evolution. WDI fully intended for the comeback time to be enforced - or else the system wouldn't work - but the apathy among CMs and Mgmt eventually got to the point where WDI and execs couldn't overcome the pure ignorance at the bottom of the totem pole. Eventually WDI gave up and said, "Fine. Run the system however you kids want. But don't blame us when it doesn't work and you end up with long Standby Lines all day and night!"
 

The Disney Kid

Well-Known Member
If you only want to do 2 attractions, then it's great...if you want to do most attractions, you probably will eventually end up waiting longer for some than you normally would, due to lack of FP availability or not able to get a FP in the correct timeframe, etc.


Never have. And I use fastpass repeatedly through the day.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
No not really. Thank you though for mis-qouting me.

Maelstrom
Dinosaur
Star Tours

Havent seen a wait over about 20 minutes for those in a long time:shrug:
Probably because these are not very popular attractions. Dinosaur - maybe, but it has a high capacity and people are too busy using their Fastpasses on Kilimanjaro Safaris and Expedition Everest.
 

thelookingglass

Well-Known Member
Regarding the idea that some have mentioned that using them past the one hour window is "breaking the rules", I have asked numerous Cast Members, ranging from entry-level, front line CMs, to coordinators, to MANAGEMENT about this, and there is NO RULE FORBIDING THIS. I have been clearly told by everyone I asked that Fastpasses DO NOT EXPIRE as long as you use it on the date printed on it, at any point AFTER the first time listed. The rules on the back of the ticket only state that they cannot be accepted early, and must be used on the date printed.
Absolutely correct, however, the Fastpass machines themselves calculate under the assumption that only a certain number of Fastpasses return during any hour window. If the "return window" was actually a rule, the Fastpass line would be more regulated and there would never be too many* people in the Fastpass line.

*in theory. Ignoring people in the Fastpass line with guest relations passes, child swap tickets, etc.
With Fastpass I can go on two rides with the waittime of one. Why in the world would I want to change that? Makes me wonder about the intelligence of people who want to do away with fastpass.
That "wait time of 1" would be significantly reduced without Fastpass, and in the end it would just even out to where you spend the same amount of time in lines either way.

For all of you doubting that no fastpass = faster moving standby line, seriously, just go to any park at opening or during an evening EMH when Fastpass is not distributed.

It makes me "wonder about the intelligence" of people on a messageboard unwilling to admit that some things at Disney are in fact, not perfect, and OMGZ ITS BETTAR THAN UNIVERSELS BCUZ ITZ FREE LOLOL!!!1"

If you go to Universal on a crowded day, their Express Pass is totally worth the money, and I never once thought I was being ripped off for having to pay for it because of just how much more you benefit from having it.

WOW! fastpass is the best. you just have to know how to make them work to your advantage. get to the park early and make the popular rides your number one stop. if you figure out how to make them work for you, then you'll love them and can get a lot done in a short amount of time:sohappy:
The only reason you, or anyone, perceives any real sort of benefit from Fastpass is because you HAVE to utilize it to avoid the longer wait times that Fastpass itself created in the first place.
 

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
Well, I know DHS does not do Fastpass for EMH anymore. Go on an EMH night, wait about an hour (for leftover Fastpasses from earlier to phase out), and observe how significantly faster the line moves at Rock n Rollercoaster!

I'm not saying I don't use Fastpass, but would you rather have to wait 40 minutes for one ride because of Fastpass to be able to not wait in line for another? Or have all Fastpass attractions' wait times be reduced by probably 75% on a busy day by just getting rid of it alltogether?*

* I realize Disney will never get rid of it, but it should be revamped.


Oh I agree with fastpasses increasing the wait times at the rides, I know this first hand. Every night when I'm at mgm, I always rush to TSM about 10 to 5 min. before park closing because I know once it closes the line begans moving quicker. But I don't agree that they should get rid of it. Like someone else said, you can basically stand in line for two things at once. Have a fastpass for TSM and rush to the line in the morning before they start accepting fastpasses, then you could ride it twice quicker than you would without fastpass. It all falls down to one's perspective I think, and how you utilize it.

But I do think without fastpasses, the lines would still reach their 70-90 min. waits. It's just that they would move quicker, but they may have to add extra switchbacks to accommodate everyone, including the people who would be "waiting" for their fastpass return.
 

David S.

Member
The only reason you, or anyone, perceives any real sort of benefit from Fastpass is because you HAVE to utilize it to avoid the longer wait times that Fastpass itself created in the first place.

I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but I know for a fact I get on more attractions per day in the FP era than I did BEFORE FP's existed and had the alledged shorter standby wait times. The very first day I used the system, I noticed a definitive improvement in not only the amount of what I could do per day, but also the convenience of being able to ride some of the major attractions during the most crowded part of the day with walk-on waits thanks to FP.

Before FP, on a crowded day you had to skip around the MK in the morning trying to hit all the major stuff early before the attendence peaked. If you missed anything major, it was either waiting in a long queue, or saving these attractions for the late night hours in hopes the ride would be a walk-on then.

Thanks to FP, I can enjoy touring the parks by "land", by entering a land, getting a FP for an attraction in that land, doing everything else in the land, and by then it's time to use the FP. The system actually allows me to backtrack less, for the most part!

I know my single-day personal record for MK attractions experienced in a day, including re-rides, was on a New Year's Eve after the invention of FP. I would have NEVER been able to do everything I did that day in the era before FP, because even if the standby lines would have been shorter then, they still would not have been as short as the near walk-ons I got by using my FP's!
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
Over the years Ive read a fair amount of half baked nonsense but I can always rely on Fastpass threads to bring out the big guns.

I find that all lines go quicker when there are fewer people in them. Its also darker when theres no light.
 

The Disney Kid

Well-Known Member
Absolutely correct, however, the Fastpass machines themselves calculate under the assumption that only a certain number of Fastpasses return during any hour window. If the "return window" was actually a rule, the Fastpass line would be more regulated and there would never be too many* people in the Fastpass line.

*in theory. Ignoring people in the Fastpass line with guest relations passes, child swap tickets, etc.
That "wait time of 1" would be significantly reduced without Fastpass, and in the end it would just even out to where you spend the same amount of time in lines either way.

For all of you doubting that no fastpass = faster moving standby line, seriously, just go to any park at opening or during an evening EMH when Fastpass is not distributed.

It makes me "wonder about the intelligence" of people on a messageboard unwilling to admit that some things at Disney are in fact, not perfect, and OMGZ ITS BETTAR THAN UNIVERSELS BCUZ ITZ FREE LOLOL!!!1"

If you go to Universal on a crowded day, their Express Pass is totally worth the money, and I never once thought I was being ripped off for having to pay for it because of just how much more you benefit from having it.

The only reason you, or anyone, perceives any real sort of benefit from Fastpass is because you HAVE to utilize it to avoid the longer wait times that Fastpass itself created in the first place.

Sounds like you shouldn't use it, but, please, don't make that decision for for me.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
Fastpass is a great concept for those with the intelligence to figure out how it works. Mongs tend to get upset at its complexity and whine insesiently on message boards about it. But then thats the risk when your dads wife is also his sister.

Haven't read much of this thread besides this response (for obvious reasons), but it sums up my thoughts. You all can and moan about FastPass until you're blue in the face, but the fact is that it is advantageous to you because you're more well-versed on WDW touring strategy (and this even goes for those playing short of a full deck here--almost just by virtue of you being here, odds are that you know how to take in WDW better than the average guest) than the park-going public.

Personally, I love it.
 

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