Movement for the Death of FASTPASS

[thelookingglass]

I've said for years Disney should start charging for an express pass like Universal has. Make it available only to resort guests. To non-resort guests, too bad.

I also agree with other people saying the people that whine about fastpass are the ones that don't know how to use it properly. We go every summer when it's packed, ride everything, and never wait more than 20 minutes.

oh hey look someone didn't read the thread.

Also, they'll never start charging for it or making it for resort guests only (thats what EMH are for) because that would be a guest relations nightmare.

 

[GoofyFan1]

It seems to me, thelookingglass, you are looking for some kind of park social justice. Because standby lines are longer than fastpass lines the fastpass users must give up their advantage, one that is available to everyone, so that the standby lines can be shorter. Again, fastpass, in whatever form WDW has established, is a tool to make your visit more enjoyable. Every guidebook covers this topic. Every Disney channel at the resorts discuss this topic. Even the park maps/guides have a blurb about fastpass. I understand your point about coming back after the time on your ticket has expired. However, I quickly learned from a CM that it was ok to use the ticket after the expired time when I showed up late with tickets in hand and started for the standby line and the CM called me back to the fastpass line and explained the way fastpass really works.

I'm not sure why you seem to be so angry about the visitors that show up early with a "commando" plan or those that claim if you know how to use fastpass you will enhance your visit but that is something you can deal with. As someone that only has a Six Flags close enough to visit on a regular basis, I appreciate the fastpass system at WDW and will continue to use it to my advantage...just as everyone else in the park is free to do to their advantage.

This may be the teacher in me, but you may want to try a more civil tone in some of your posts. Comments like "oh hey look someone didn't read the thread" will not further the discussion. :animwink:

 

[mike10]

This is why my family will always go during non-peak times. My wife and I went the last 2 weeks of Oct. last year and we barely needed the FP for the most part outside of 1 or two rides the average wait time was about 20mins.


When we did use the FP we only waited like about less than 5 mins. We are going this year at the 2nd and 3rd week of Nov. I have heard it's even more dead during that time.

Do we have to endure shorter park hrs? Of course but when you add in that the average wait time is only about 20mins or less I think I would take that everytime especially when you add in that we stay at the resort so we get EMH on top of that.

 

[GenerationX]

But the aggregate time of everyone waiting in the non-FastPass attractions has gone up. Either way (park with FastPass vs. same park with no FastPass) the same amount of people are going to be able to experience the same amount of attractions, with all other factors being equal (number of guests, hours of operation, rides open, assuming shopping, eating and non-wait attraction habits remain static).

I remember this discussion from another thread. You made insightful points, and I believe we agreed on the factors involved except the bolded assumption above - I contend that FP causes an increase in no-wait attraction/shopping/eatery attendance. You are correct that lines at all other non-FP activities increase in an FP park.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

For the benefit of the hard of thinking and inbreds I suggest that increased park attendance with no increase or in some cases fewer operating attractions may be more of a factor than some half baked Fastpass theory.

As for wait times, based on Q length I had some really bad waits on Soarin during EMH when there was no Fastpass, the ride was broken, but the Q was still longer. Go figure.

Anyway Ill wave cheerily as I waft past with my overdue fastpass in hand and head up that small Q safe in the knowledge that my strategy for maximising ride time works for me and that grabbing that little bit of paper early in the day keeps me moving. the prolls.

 

[Jeff456]

If you understand how the fastpass system works(and I am sure everyone here does) and plan accordingly if anything it saves you time, sure if you want to go on Soarin' 5 times in a row fastpass doesn't help, but for making sure you hit the headliner attractions at least once it's great!

 

[Mickey is King]

I've said for years Disney should start charging for an express pass like Universal has. Make it available only to resort guests. To non-resort guests, too bad.

I also agree with other people saying the people that whine about fastpass are the ones that don't know how to use it properly. We go every summer when it's packed, ride everything, and never wait more than 20 minutes.

I'm totally o.k. w/ free FP for resort guests , season pass holders, and DVC members of course. Not really feeling the pay idea....possibly,maybe for walk -in guests on a day ticket.

I also agree with knowing how to work them is the key. I have never waited more than 20 min. with a FP- normally about 10 min. even when the parks are packed.

 

[Krack]

For the benefit of the hard of thinking and inbreds I suggest that increased park attendance with no increase or in some cases fewer operating attractions may be more of a factor than some half baked Fastpass theory.

As for wait times, based on Q length I had some really bad waits on Soarin during EMH when there was no Fastpass, the ride was broken, but the Q was still longer. Go figure.

Anyway Ill wave cheerily as I waft past with my overdue fastpass in hand and head up that small Q safe in the knowledge that my strategy for maximising ride time works for me and that grabbing that little bit of paper early in the day keeps me moving. the prolls.

Oh, hey look ... the troll came out from under the bridge again. :wave: Quick, someone give him some attention.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Is that the best youve got to counter the points Ive made? Well it is on par with the rest of the Ertha Kitt youve posted on the subject. But if you havent got a genuine case I guess that what you have to resort to.

Bolt ya nugget. :lol:

 

[cmatt]

here you - that be right.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Im gonna rip yer jaaawwwwwww. :animwink:

 

[Krack]

Is that the best youve got to counter the points Ive made? Well it is on par with the rest of the Ertha Kitt youve posted on the subject. But if you havent got a genuine case I guess that what you have to resort to.

Bolt ya nugget. :lol:

Ad hominem attacks and personal insults are not "making points"; it's a cry for attention. "Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look, I just dropped my pants. Please look at me."

 

[cmatt]

Im gonna rip yer jaaawwwwwww. :animwink:

i was like that pure mad hangin' out (with) yer grannae

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Ad hominem attacks and personal insults are not "making points"; it's a cry for attention. "Look at me. Look at me. Look at me. Look, I just dropped my pants. Please look at me."

Attacks, on whom? I suggest you get a belt or do you have a habit of getting the little fellow out in front of the children?

But please do explain why park attendance doesnt impact wait times. Id love to hear your theory on that one.
:lol:

 

[Krack]

I remember this discussion from another thread. You made insightful points, and I believe we agreed on the factors involved except the bolded assumption above - I contend that FP causes an increase in no-wait attraction/shopping/eatery attendance. You are correct that lines at all other non-FP activities increase in an FP park.

This is probably what you are referring to (taken from this discussion):

For simplicity sake, imagine a Magic Kingdom park with 3 rides and a restaurant. Let's just say Space Mountain (average 1 hour wait+ride), Buzz Lightyear (25 minute wait+ride) and TTA (no wait - but ten minute ride time). This park has no fastpass.

You have 4 hours in the park and you want to experience everything and eat lunch.

Hour 1 - You ride Space Mountain
Hour 2 - You Ride Buzz Lightyear twice and TTA twice
Hour 3 - You eat lunch (one hour time total)
Hour 4 - You ride Space Mountain

You've ridden each ride twice plus ate lunch

--------

Now imagine the same Magic Kingdom Park with fastpass for Space Mountain only. You still have the same goals. Entering the park, you get a fast pass for Space Mountain for Hour 4. Because of the fastpass system, all non-fastpass lines have now increased. Why? Because all of those people with fastpass are still standing in one of the lines (or having lunch), but when they utilize the fastpass, they are forcing the Space Mountain standby riders to have a significantly increased wait line. The same is true of the Buzz riders. We can assume that the TTA line stays as a no-wait ride (because there just isn't enough demand). The Space Mountain standby line is now 1 hour 30 minutes (wait+ride). The Buzz ride is now 40 minutes (wait+ride). The Space Mountain fastpass line is now 15 minutes (wait+ride).

Hour 1 - You ride Space Mountain stand by and TTA
Hour 2 - You ride Buzz Lightyear and TTA
Hour 3 - You eat lunch
Hour 4 - You ride Space Mountain (utilizing your fastpass) and you ride Buzz Lightyear

You've ridden each ride twice plus ate lunch

-----

There you go. Two days in the park - one with a fastpass system, one without - and you spent the same amount of time in line and visited the exact same attractions. All you did was shift when you rode them and where you spent time waiting in line. Are the wait times exact? No, of course not, but you get the point (you can never get an exact time because of a variety of other factors out of our control - crowd size, closed rides, the whim's of the general public, etc). When someone is waiting for their fastpass to become available, they must go somewhere. And that somewhere is going to be another line. Which means that line is now going to be longer than it would have been without fastpass. The time you spend eating, riding zero wait rides and browsing is going to remain very close to a constant with and without fastpass, so it is illogical to factor it into determining whether you are saving time with the fastpass

It just seems like it's saving you time. Which is understandable; that's what it's designed to do.

Now imagine the Magic Kingdom park as a whole, with 50 attractions and several restaurants (and shops and parades and food carts). The exact same principles of time management, lines, waiting, etc apply. You are spending no less time waiting in lines with fastpass as you would if the system did not exist.

All of that said, there is one special instance in which fastpass would be advantageous. Here it is: If you are a person who only rides (a) attractions with fastpass and you only ride them utilizing a fastpass (no standby line riding) and/or (b) attractions with zero wait times, then you are benefiting greatly from the system. That, of course, is a very small subset of WDW resort guests - this is a person that rides 4 or 5 "good rides" a day maximum and then no-wait rides to round out their day; no rides what-so-ever that has a line but no fastpass. system.

------

This thread was another interesting discussion on what effect FastPass has on the parks.

 

[Korfar]

Not at all. In reality, almost all the people who bypass you in the FP line would just already be ahead of you in the standby line. They would have just got there earlier.

There are always arguments for and against FP. Disney will never get rid of it simply because instead of waiting in line where they can't spend cash, guests are waiting with FPs while buying merch.

Good advance planning by guests can allow them to ride what they want to ride. Those that don't plan get frustrated by those that do. :shrug:

The last line is perfect. I always get a kick out of othe people that give dirtly looks to the fast pass people. Hello!! You can use it too.

 

[Duke of Disney]

I love the FP - I think it's a great idea and hope it's there forever!!

IE: When I go to The Land, I get a fastpass for Soarin' - eat lunch - hop on Living with the Land then check out The Lion King - by then, usually I can get on Soarin'.

It just takes some simple thinking ahead. Works even better if you are with a few ppl that don't enjoy rides like Rockn Roller Coaster - double or triple dipping is awesome. I rode Rockn 3 times in a row and got off walking sideways!

 

[jakeman]

As long as people don't understand math there will be people that argue about Fastpass.

 

[tizzo]

I think Disney already IS lagging behind Universal and Six Flags in terms of how the FP is used. True, Disney invented the system, but both Universal and Six Flags have taken the concept and improved on it by leaps and bounds. Your suggestion that perhaps Disney could "someday" charge for it, is exactly what those two parks already do, and that's definitely the right way to do it. I rarely even use FP anymore when I visit Disney parks, because compared to how the other parks do it, it's just kind of a pain IMO. You have to go stand in line to get the fastpass to begin with (each time) and then you have to worry about what time to come back and enjoy the attraction. It takes the spontaneity out of the visit, which is something I've always enjoyed about a day at a theme park. I don't like going to a theme park and having to schedule out my day essentially. I get too much of that at work....I'm on vacation!

Universal's system is hands down the best. The idea of tying it to your hotel room key was absolutely brilliant. No extra card you have to carry (just simply show your room key). No worrying about what window of time to come back to a particular attraction, just come back when you feel like it. The Express Pass, which you have to pay for, is also a better idea than FP for similar reasons.

And although I don't visit Six Flags parks nearly as much as the others, their system is much better than FP as well. As Universal does (and as you implied would be an improvement if Disney did this as well) they charge for it. But you get this cool little gadget that lets you "reserve" your place in line on various rides no matter where you are in the park. No standing in an extra line, and you still retain some of that spontaneity. Not nearly as good as Universal's systems, but still much better than Disney's (I never thought I would use the words "Six Flags" and "better than Disney" in the same paragraph, but gotta give due credit for a great concept).

The problem with tying it to your room key is that not everyone has a room key. And the problem with charging for it is that you've already charged everyone else for it with the price of admission.

My last stint as a Universal AP holder was the last one largely because of how they run their Express Pass system. We made several visits to the park during which we were unable to ride almost anything, because EPs were generally gone by 11AM for most rides, and unlike Disney they seemed to make no effort to limit EP distribution so as to manage the length of the standby lines.

To clarify, they limited the EPs distributed by the machines, but they also sell them throughout the day (gift shops never sold out of EPs while we were there, suggesting that quantities are not limited like they are at the machines, or at Disney). And the ones for sale were good all day for multiple rides on all attractions - which leads to another problem. The way Disney distributes FPs is such that they can predict and control how many FP people are able to access an attraction during any given hour, and therefore are able to predict and control how much standby capacity that attraction has. Universal's system makes it impossible for them to know how many people are going to queue up with EPs for a given attraction during a given time period, and therefore they have no way to predict or control how many standby people they can accommodate, with the predictable result being a ruined experience for anyone who doesn't buy an EP.

It is my belief, and I hope and suspect that it is Disney's as well, that this is just one of the many reasons that Disney's competitors have so much trouble competing with Disney.

That's not to say that I expect, or even want, the FP system to continue as it is permanently. But it is again my hope and expectation that any changes Disney makes will be extremely carefully designed and implemented so as not to take away from the guest experience the way Universal's system does.

The most likely thing to be tried next, I think, is the "queueless" systems recently tested at RnRC and rumored for the new Dumbo, in which you're given a group number, rather than a return time, and asked to wait in a particular area until your group is called. From what I heard of the RnRC test, and the Dumbo plans, there will be things to do to occupy your time while you wait. If it works, I think we can certainly expect some of those "things to do" to eventually include revenue-generating activities such as shopping. I have to think that the minds who came up with the idea of not being able to get off an attraction without passing through a gift shop would likely have thought "if only we could get them through the gift shop on the way in when they have no choice but to take their time, instead of on the way out when they're in a hurry to get to the next thing". In that context, the queueless system seems almost an obvious combination of FP and exiting through the gift shop.

 

[tizzo]

As surprised as I am that FPs are still free, I am even more surprised that they are still available to everyone. As soon as they rolled out the FP system I figured it was only a matter of time before it was only available to resort guests. Disney is always looking for new ways to keep people in their hotel rooms. Making FPs only available to resort guests and annual pass holders seems like a no brainer to me. :shrug: Wouldn't bother me in the least if they decided to do this either. I've only stayed off property twice...and even if I totally lost my mind and never stayed in another Disney resort room, I always have an annual pass.

I get the feeling that most people don't know this, but there are hotels on Disney property that are not operated by Disney and therefore don't get the on-property perks. I only learned this myself last year. My sister was in town and staying at the Hilton on Hotel Plaza Blvd. Guests at this hotel have access to perks like EMH. I don't know if Disney operates the hotel, or they just have a specific relationship with Hilton, or what. However one of those nights we decided to stay as well because we were doing MVMCP and didn't want to drive all the way home after and then back the next morning for breakfast at CRT. However the Hilton was too expensive, so we stayed at the Best Western right across HPB.

The people at BW informed me that they were on Disney property (I presume leasing the land from Disney) but did not have the same sort of affiliation with Disney as the Hilton did, and so did not offer on-property perks, specifically EMH.

Anyway, the point of this is that Disney has hotel operators as tenants that they have to keep happy, but with which they don't have a relationship that allows the hotel to offer on-property perks. It is probably therefore not as simple for Disney as just deciding to offer a new perk to resort guests that isn't available to off-site guests, because doing so devalues the rooms of off-site facilities relative to on-site; and some of those off-site facilities are tenants of Disney's, which would involve a lease agreement that would necessarily involve certain obligations on Disney's part that they wouldn't have to someplace out on US-192. I could easily imagine such an agreement spelling out what perks competing hotels are allowed to offer that the lessees are not, and how much extra they must charge guests for those perks. Which could mean that such a scheme is coming, but not until existing leases expire or can be renegotiated.