Movement for the Death of FASTPASS

[thelookingglass]

it's really not that hard to figure out how to use a fastpass to benefit you. get one and go wait in line for another ride. not that hard. hit the popular rides early and often. so basically you want long lines for everything that way you can't get as much done during the day??? is that right?

Ok? Where did I ever say that I don't know how to use it? Its a very simple process and I know exactly how to manipulate it. Because you need to.

Also, since this concept doesn't seem to be getting through to you, I'll lay it out for you:

With Fastpass running:
FP holders wait 10 minutes
Standby waits 60 minutes.

Without Fastpass running:
Everybody waits 20-30 minutes.

With Fastpass, you aren't saving nearly as much time as you think you are.

I have a FP so the system is assuming I will be riding it that day.

Wrong. The system assumes you will be riding within that hour. Thats why it only gives out a certain amount per hour. I understand that people returning after their return window ultimately does not affect the standby wait time that much more, but this can also cause the standby line to come to a grinding hault.

Over the years Ive read a fair amount of half baked nonsense but I can always rely on Fastpass threads to bring out the big guns.

I find that all lines go quicker when there are fewer people in them. Its also darker when theres no light.

I have been at the parks on EMH evenings, and waited in the standby lines containing the SAME amount of people as there would be during the day. (in other words, the end of the line being in more or less the same spot). The wait time, even with the same amount of people in standby as during the day, is significantly shorter without Fastpass running.

For example, I've waited for Tower of Terror during the day where almost the entire line was full, and also during EMH with the same line length. What took nearly an hour during the day took about 20 minutes during EMH with no Fastpass. The line basically never stopped moving.

But you know, keep calling me inbred and all that.

Rides had faster lines before FastPass was introduced in large part because WDW had fewer guests then than now.

It had fewer guests... but they were all crammed into one or two parks instead of four. The Magic Kingdom is just as crowded as it ever was.

 

[GenerationX]

Without FP, the Standby line moves much quicker, but there is sufficient Demand for FP rides to keep them pegged at a 60 minute wait, regardless. If any of those rides were to drop to a 20 minute wait during the day, people would jump in the Standby and push it back up to 60 minutes.

With FP, the line is still pegged at 60 minutes or more, but many many people are getting a 5 – 10 minute wait.

With or without FP, the same number of people experience the attraction. But with FP, the aggregate time of everyone waiting in the queue area is much less.

 

[Monsterfan99]

Hmm, we need a simulation to sort this all out...too bad Rollercoaster Tycoon doesn't have a Fastpass mod

:sohappy:

 

[wizards8507]

With Fastpass running:
FP holders wait 10 minutes
Standby waits 60 minutes.

Without Fastpass running:
Everybody waits 20-30 minutes.

Your math is crap. You can't just pull numbers out of nowhere to support your argument. Did you ever consider that the reason that waits are only 20-30 minutes during extra magic hours (a fact you used later in your post) is because THE PARK IS ONLY HALF FULL? Fastpass has nothing to do with it. The ENTIRE POINT of EMH is to allow resort guests to enjoy the parks with LESS CROWDS. Not only are EMH only open to resort guests, but most park goers are hesitant to wake up at 8:00 AM or stay out 'til 2:00 in the morning, so the number of people in the park to FILL those lines is dramatically reduced. The line "starting" in the same spot has nothing to do with it, because people are generally walking at a faster pace, not in the "packed in" nature that occurs throughout the day. Plus, the additional "wrapping" of the line is roped off until the park gets busier. This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that fastpass isn't available during EMH.

The total number of guests that want to ride an attraction is a fixed number. So is the capacity for the ride to process those guests. With a fixed number of guests going through a ride with a fixed capacity and load speed, the only variable that changes with the presence of fastpass is the order of those guests that get processed.

 

[thelookingglass]

Did you read the part where I mentioned that I am basing this off of waiting through the exact same length of line during EMH and regular hours? Without Fastpass, the lines move faster and no, they don't "pack in" because the riders are 100% from standby instead of 10-20%.

Despite what you seem to think, extra magic hours evenings can be quite crowded at times.

And also, I didn't use math. Rather, I based it off of the actual experiences I have had, with similar crowd levels, when Fastpass is used and not used.

 

[Tom]

What he said!

I don't understand all this talk of enforcing the return time... what difference does it make. I have a FP so the system is assuming I will be riding it that day. Whether I ride it at 2pm or 3:30pm, what difference does it make!?! I understand the argument of "What happens when there's an influx of people during a certain hour?"... but the people that showed up during that hour weren't there the hour before... so technically the stand by line moved quicker in the last hour b/c the FP folks who were suppose to be there were not!

I like FP, I use it to my advantage, and there are rides I would never get to ride unless I was there first thing in the morning to experience them! I just don't wait an hour with two small kids!

When FastPass was developed, WDI put some serious thought into it, and the result was essentially a "reservation system" for rides. The distribution of Fastpasses at each ride isn't arbitrary. It's very calculated, and was originally designed to regulate the flow of guests through the Fastpass queue so as NOT to affect the standby line significantly.

Compare it to ADRs. Assume you make a reservation for Le Cellier, and you get a reservation for 5:00pm. If WDW applied the same flawed logic that they have applied to Fastpass since its inception, that would mean you could show up for your dinner reservation anytime after 5:00pm.

Imagine if everyone who had a reservation for Le Cellier between 1:00 and 5:00 all showed up at 8:00pm (when it was convenient for them). If WDW's policy was "to honor all reservations after their start time", they'd seat all of those people in order of arrival, at 8:00pm. Everyone with a reservation of 8:00pm or after would be standing there all night waiting for a table - and walk-ins would wait even longer (or, in reality, never get to eat).

But that's not how dining reservations work. After a period of time, you are considered a no-show, and you are bumped from the list. Thus, everything stays on track, and everyone with a reservation (i.e. Fastpass) after you still gets to eat when they expected to eat, and the walk-ins (i.e. standby) wait the same amount of time that they originally expected to wait (Disclaimer: This is not the time or place to argue about how the DDP ruined the ability to walk-in...this is just an analogy).

The Fastpass system worked great when it started....back when they enforced the return time window. But like I said before, I'm sure Guest Relations won the battle with WDI, arguing that "Guests are unhappy that they were turned away after their return time expired! Wah wah. Boo Hoo." To which WDI replied with "Yeah, but....that's the way it goes. Otherwise the system doesn't work!"

Guest Relations won, and now we have a flawed Fastpass system.

 

[mp2bill]

Bad idea.

 

[thelookingglass]

Bad post.



edwardtc - thank you! Very well put.

 

[Krack]

it's really not that hard to figure out how to use a fastpass to benefit you. get one and go wait in line for another ride. not that hard.

Um ... the line for the "another ride" is now longer than it would have been with no FastPass system in place. Why? Because everyone else with a FastPass is now standing in front of you. People occupy space; if they are not standing in one line, they are in another somewhere in the park.

With or without FP, the same number of people experience the attraction. But with FP, the aggregate time of everyone waiting in the queue area is much less.

But the aggregate time of everyone waiting in the non-FastPass attractions has gone up. Either way (park with FastPass vs. same park with no FastPass) the same amount of people are going to be able to experience the same amount of attractions, with all other factors being equal (number of guests, hours of operation, rides open, assuming shopping, eating and non-wait attraction habits remain static).

 

[cmatt]

When FastPass was developed, WDI put some serious thought into it, and the result was essentially a "reservation system" for rides. The distribution of Fastpasses at each ride isn't arbitrary. It's very calculated, and was originally designed to regulate the flow of guests through the Fastpass queue so as NOT to affect the standby line significantly.

Compare it to ADRs. Assume you make a reservation for Le Cellier, and you get a reservation for 5:00pm. If WDW applied the same flawed logic that they have applied to Fastpass since its inception, that would mean you could show up for your dinner reservation anytime after 5:00pm.

Imagine if everyone who had a reservation for Le Cellier between 1:00 and 5:00 all showed up at 8:00pm (when it was convenient for them). If WDW's policy was "to honor all reservations after their start time", they'd seat all of those people in order of arrival, at 8:00pm. Everyone with a reservation of 8:00pm or after would be standing there all night waiting for a table - and walk-ins would wait even longer (or, in reality, never get to eat).

But that's not how dining reservations work. After a period of time, you are considered a no-show, and you are bumped from the list. Thus, everything stays on track, and everyone with a reservation (i.e. Fastpass) after you still gets to eat when they expected to eat, and the walk-ins (i.e. standby) wait the same amount of time that they originally expected to wait (Disclaimer: This is not the time or place to argue about how the DDP ruined the ability to walk-in...this is just an analogy).

The Fastpass system worked great when it started....back when they enforced the return time window. But like I said before, I'm sure Guest Relations won the battle with WDI, arguing that "Guests are unhappy that they were turned away after their return time expired! Wah wah. Boo Hoo." To which WDI replied with "Yeah, but....that's the way it goes. Otherwise the system doesn't work!"

Guest Relations won, and now we have a flawed Fastpass system.

:sohappy: someone gets it :sohappy:

david - yes - I have no problem adding a reminder on my phone and getting back to the attraction for that time. How difficult is it not to do this? I really don't understand the mentality.

when you take a fastpass then decide not to use it - figuratively you are taking that fastpass from someone else that wants to use it. There is only so many they can issue.

The problem lies between the ride and the fast pass machine and it is not the queue

 

[the-reason14]

:sohappy: someone gets it :sohappy:

david - yes - I have no problem adding a reminder on my phone and getting back to the attraction for that time. How difficult is it not to do this? I really don't understand the mentality.

when you take a fastpass then decide not to use it - figuratively you are taking that fastpass from someone else that wants to use it. There is only so many they can issue.

The problem lies between the ride and the fast pass machine and it is not the queue

Ok, now what happens if the ride you're "rushing" to get on breaks down? It then reopens outside your time window, do you throw the fastpass away and not use it? Or is it ok then?

Honestly, I use my fastpasses at my discretion. Since I know they accept them late, I arrive whenever it's best for me.

 

[David S.]

Ok, now what happens if the ride you're "rushing" to get on breaks down? It then reopens outside your time window, do you throw the fastpass away and not use it? Or is it ok then?



Honestly, I use my fastpasses at my discretion. Since I know they accept them late, I arrive whenever it's best for me.

:sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

david - yes - I have no problem adding a reminder on my phone and getting back to the attraction for that time. How difficult is it not to do this? I really don't understand the mentality.

Well, I'll try to help you understand my mentality. Of COURSE I could make it back during that first hour, if riding at that time was the REASON I was getting every FP that I aquire. But since I've been told by MANAGERS that it is not necessary to return during that first hour (as well as the stormtroopers in that video!) I see no reason to possibly have to backtrack back to an attraction I've already ridden that day to prematurely use a FP that I've actually gotten so I can get an EXTRA ride on a favorite attraction several hours later, at NIGHT, when I've presumably finished the rest of the park and am now doing my nightime encores on favorites when the atmosphere of the MK is at it's best and I'm feeling the most "magical".

Having an extra FP in my pocket for faves like Space Mountain,, Thunder Mountain, Splash Mountain, Peter Pan, and Winnie the Pooh can make those last two hours of the night more sublime and magical than words can express. If I've already ridden all of these rides earlier in the day, these extra FPs were aquired SOLELY to give myself this "magical finale" with walk-ons on everything I approach during the last two or so hours. Why "waste" them before I'm ready to use them, repeating these rides before I'm ready to when there are still other things in the park I haven't gotten to yet, and putting myself in a position where a potential 20 minute (or more) wait in the evening could make me have to cut something I am trying to do in the last hour or two, in which the goal is all walk-ons? I might not need to actually use these passes, but it's a good insurance policy to have them.

Also, when I have to use "insurance FPs" "late" during these finale hours, the standby AND FPs queues are almost always SHORTER than they would have been had I used them "on time". So the argument that using them "late" automatically "hurts" the system is FLAWED. In my late-night cases, I'm usually putting less of a strain on the system at the "late" time, with it's shorter lines, than I would be by using them in the afternoon window printed on the ticket when both the standby and FP queues are often backed up.

Not that I need to justify myself, but for what it's worth, in case you are getting the wrong impression, it's not like I use all of my FP's "late". Many of them are actually used during that first hour, or close to it. It all depends on how things fall into place, what my "touring plan" is, and what my logic is for aquiring that particular Fastpass.

when you take a fastpass then decide not to use it - figuratively you are taking that fastpass from someone else that wants to use it. There is only so many they can issue.

As for me having an extra that someone else could have had, if I KNOW I have an extra that I'm DEFINITELY not going to use, I do try to find someone to give it to. But if I can't, well... my having the extra passes is a result of the time and effort I put into having an awesome day (and night!) in the park, by waking up at 6AM and getting to the park no later than 1 hour before the Welcome Show and Rope Drop! I know it's a cliche, but...

"The early bird catches the worm"
"If you snooze, you LOSE"

The bottom line is, I've been told by those who matter AT the parks that there is nothing wrong with the way I tour the parks. So I don't need to justify my touring strategies which have already been established as LEGAL in the eyes of management. Nor will I be altering my methods to placate those who potificate on their message board soapboxes against strategies that are both legal and acceptable in the eyes of the park operators!

 

[disneyrcks]

I am surprised that u can use the fast passes beyond the end time....that is information that I will definitely apply to my next trip! however we have not had a problem doing our fast pass routine....we are late sleepers so the only rides we have seen really long wait times for with no fp available have been soarin and TSM...(still haven't been on either!) We are going in August and my goal is to ride those two rides without waiting 90 minutes A friend of mine told me once that the fast passes aren't really "free" because disney tacked on a little more money to the park ticket for that feature (not as much as uni or six flags)...does anyone think that is accurate and that is why they don't charge for it? I wasn't sure what to make of it?

 

[Krack]

my having the extra passes is a result of the time and effort I put into having an awesome day in the park, by waking up at 6AM and getting to the park no later than 1 hour before the Welcome Show and Rope Drop! I know it's a cliche, but...

"The early bird catches the worm"
"If you snooze, you LOSE"

AKA "Screw you, I got mine."

David S is a lost cause, but for everyone else ... this comment should be Exhibit B on why this is a bad system. For the overall good of the parks, management (and park policies) should not encourage the Disney Commando approach to park attendance (for a variety of reasons, I'm too tired to go into right now).

A friend of mine told me once that the fast passes aren't really "free" because disney tacked on a little more money to the park ticket for that feature (not as much as uni or six flags)...does anyone think that is accurate and that is why they don't charge for it?

Inaccurate. Ticket prices get raised constantly, but no specific price increase can be attributed to a "FastPass" tax.

 

[disneyrcks]

Oh yes I wouldn't think of it as a "tax" but I can't help but wonder if they would perhaps raise the price for a feature like that.....I am glad that it is not the case...it's nice to know that we get a positive feature without having to pay the price

 

[David S.]

AKA "Screw you, I got mine."

David S is a lost cause, but for everyone else ... this comment should be Exhibit B on why this is a bad system. For the overall good of the parks, management (and park policies) should not encourage the Disney Commando approach to park attendance (for a variety of reasons, I'm too tired to go into right now.

In your opinion. You can pontificate all you want, but the actual REALITY is I am not breaking any rules or doing anything wrong. I can't believe the analness people have about following rules that do not even exist!

You do realize that even if FP didn't exist, the "early birds" like me would still get on a lot more rides than those who would get there at 2 PM (when FPs under the current system are often gone for the most popular rides).

Arguing against FP because those who get to the park on time have an advantage in the system is like arguing that the park should open later in the day even without FP, because those who would get there on time have an advantage over latecomers - FP or not!

And you took my quote out of context which made it sound harsher. You left out the part about when I end up with extras, I do try to give them away to give someone a "magical moment" - which always feels good when it works out that way.

PS. Even when I do full days where I power-ride attractions, I feel like much less of a "Commando" (your word) thanks to the magic of Fastpass! Spending less time in line means even more time to savor the design details, atmosphere, and music loops that make the parks so magical. Like I said earlier, I do less backtracking thanks to FP, and thus am able to "slow down and smell the roses" and tour at a more relaxed pace, while STILL getting on MORE attractions than if I went faster and FP didn't exist!

 

[disneyrcks]

David S I completly agree....I stated in a post above that my bf and I are late sleepers and by the time we have made it to the parks on certain days the wait for TSM and soarin have been 90 minutes! and there has been no fp available...so we moved on and vowed that our next trip we will get there earlier!! Even with fp sometimes the old school rules still apply and you need to get there early or before a certain time

 

[David S.]

Yes, I didn't mean to sound harsh against people who get to the parks late! Sometimes I go late myself. I actually enjoy doing abbreviated evening visits, and sleeping in sometimes, and of course whenever I park-hop to MK from another park after the first park closes, those are short visits, too.

When I get to the MK in the late afternoon or evening, naturally the people who were there all day have a distinct advantage in the amount of FPs they can get that day. The thing is, unlike some of the people who complain about FP, I ACCEPT this fact, enjoy the rides I do get on that day/night, and don't complain that FP is "unfair".

When I do get to the park at opening, there are advantages to being there early, both in general and with the FP system. I don't understand why some on here seem to have a problem with taking advantage of the benefits that come with getting there early, when I'm not breaking any "rules" and when I've put the work into it by dragging myself out of bed when I really feel like sleeping another two hours!

Disneyrcks - when you go back to the parks, I hope everything works out great for you and you get all the rides and Fastpasses you want!

 

[Jasper Dale]

without Fastpass, we would not visit WDW as often as we do. it is a wonderful system. it rewards those people who are willing to get up early and put in a little effort.

 

[captainkidd]

I've said for years Disney should start charging for an express pass like Universal has. Make it available only to resort guests. To non-resort guests, too bad.

I also agree with other people saying the people that whine about fastpass are the ones that don't know how to use it properly. We go every summer when it's packed, ride everything, and never wait more than 20 minutes.