"Mouse Arrest" & LPS Monitored Bracelets

[lazyboy97o]

You are right that I am probably getting different components of the system confused. But 1. I am not putting the tracking band on my girls as I am not real comfortable giving 66,000 local residents my underage girls local address. And 2. I am not linking my credit card to any of it. So I am at this point unsure what access we will have to the system.

Right now it is in testing, so that is why it is only MagicBand users who are currently using FastPass+. Prior testing only utilized RFID enabled cards and even now, due to the many technical issues, MagicBand users are still being asked to carry a Key to the World card as a backup. FastPass+ is set to be open to everybody (although where I expect you will likely get hit is being a local and not planning 60 days out).

 

[Gabe1]

More and more people are staying in Uni hotels for the Uni part of their vacation, anyway.

There really isn't a valid reason to stay on Disney property if you are going to visit Uni parks for a few days. It is actually counterproductive. With the perks within the park if you stay at a Uni Resort far outweigh any benefit of staying on Disney Property and day tripping to Uni.

 

[Monty]

You are right that I am probably getting different components of the system confused. But 1. I am not putting the tracking band on my girls as I am not real comfortable giving 66,000 local residents my underage girls local address. And 2. I am not linking my credit card to any of it. So I am at this point unsure what access we will have to the system.

The MagicBand does NOT hold your girls' local address or their names. It holds a coded hash. That hash can be used by the system to insert their names into a particular ride or M&G so a character can call them by name. There is no requirement to link your credit card to it, but if you do, again it does NOT store your credit card info on the MagicBand. It associates the exact same coded hash that connects to the system to determine whether or not you have authorized charging on your MagicBand.

This is what I was referring to earlier as paranoia...

 

[1023]

The MagicBand does NOT hold your girls' local address or their names. It holds a coded hash. That hash can be used by the system to insert their names into a particular ride or M&G so a character can call them by name. There is no requirement to link your credit card to it, but if you do, again it does NOT store your credit card info on the MagicBand. It associates the exact same coded hash that connects to the system to determine whether or not you have authorized charging on your MagicBand.

This is what I was referring to earlier as paranoia...

You are right @Monty , it's just paranoia. Oh....Wait... I respectfully disagree...

That "hash" will show up in the hands of many different "Cast Members". Those handy "Frakensteined" Apple "iPliances" will have ample info for people to not worry about. There is no way a "Black Hat" will seek out a way to bypass the NSA level security that Disney has in place. It's also highly unlikely that someone will see information about someone's vacation while planing their own through back-end error.

Much as we all do here, you are filling out a profile to allow you to interact with the desired system. That profile begins to develop over time. For example, you are a 53 year old male from Ottawa that joined under your current monicker on November 12,2005. You are a Premium Member which means you provided "valuable consideration" to become as such. (As an aside, I thank you as I am enjoying my idle time spent here.) We also know you headed to Disneyland in August ( I sincerely hope you loved it) and that would have been a good time to rob your house. It seems you were in the "service" up there. ( Thank You for your Service.)

Just that basic information is available for everyone here. What is on the back-end gives someone even more details. Perhaps you listed an e-mail address ( you had to), your birthday (you did), your real name (not sure)? Giving away information in a cavalier manner is not a great way to prevent identity theft. Maybe it's less of a concern in Canada. I don't know.(I am fine saying," I don't know")

I wonder if I parsed all your 24,000+ posts, I could get more salient details. Perhaps you revealed information about children, where they went to school, their ages? Information is power. Power corrupts. Etc. What is available is often not innocuous.

Being concerned about who has your information is not "paranoia". It is prudent in this day and age. I have access to thousands of pieces of personal information daily. I am one of the "good guys", but how would you know that? Would you trust me based on the limited interaction I have had with a "faceless" message board? If so, I have some investment opportunities for you in the Salton Sea.

So, I am off the soap box now and somewhat apologetic. I am truly appreciative of your presence here and enjoy your contributions. I hope that will temper any ill will or thoughts you have about me and my perspective.

*1023*

 

[darthspielberg]

Being concerned about your information is not paranoia. Worried that a company such as Disney will misuse or allow other outside parties to misuse said information is...a bit. Disney has never had any major leak of guest information before to my knowledge, and this fancy MagicBand stuff isn't the first time RFID chips have been used, or even linking a guests information to their account via the Key to the World cards.

Disney knows what they are doing, and you either trust them or you don't...and if you don't, why bother going?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Being concerned about your information is not paranoia. Worried that a company such as Disney will misuse or allow other outside parties to misuse said information is...a bit. Disney has never had any major leak of guest information before to my knowledge, and this fancy MagicBand stuff isn't the first time RFID chips have been used, or even linking a guests information to their account via the Key to the World cards.

Disney knows what they are doing, and you either trust them or you don't...and if you don't, why bother going?

Disney still can't deploy a functional website. Not sure how they could be described as "know[ing] what they are doing" when they have no successful history to back up this statement.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I know the info isn't stored on the band, but how many of the 66,000 on site employees will have access to that info? I don't know. And considering I live here, it is a concern of this single father of 2 teenage daughters. Call it paranoia, but it is my job to be paranoid about it.

 

[Gabe1]

I know the info isn't stored on the band, but how many of the 66,000 on site employees will have access to that info? I don't know. And considering I live here, it is a concern of this single father of 2 teenage daughters. Call it paranoia, but it is my job to be paranoid about it.

If it is any consolation I don't think you are paranoid. I safeguarded my children's identity as long as I could.
I was actually naively appalled when I was forced to enter social security numbers into college fafsa forms online. Worse the information I was required to submit in writing to private universities for their scholarship awards.
We really don't know what, where or how Disney is compiling this information. We have educated guesses and coined responses from Disney, but in depth knowledge, not really. While not stored on the band, what is stored and where?

I never put my children's names on backpacks or necklaces on DD neck, etc. I'd mark stuff with initials or my cell number if need be. While seemingly harmless, greeting children or adults by name, you just never know what creep is lurking around. Yes, unlikely but the police blotters from WDW have plenty of unlikely crimes that happen here and there with their staff. Further, we all know how many major corporations, banks and governmental bodies have had their systems hacked. I'm sure Disney has layers of security but nothing is fool-proof.

 

[DJMoore2011]

As long as you swipe the band somewhere throughout the day, even if only at pool snack bar, Mickey is happy.

Well that aint going to happen, unless Mickey would like to come and deal with my Special Needs Daughter as she has a melt down because she is over stimulated. There is 1 day every vacation where we don't leave the hotel room. Not even to go to the pool because she needs that break if the Mouse don't like it oh well

 

[Monty]

So, I am off the soap box now and somewhat apologetic. I am truly appreciative of your presence here and enjoy your contributions. I hope that will temper any ill will or thoughts you have about me and my perspective.

*1023*

No ill will at all, this is a discussion board and we're having a discussion.

I have no doubt that with a little effort and some savvy, you could lay my entire life out before me from what is accessible on the Internet. I have never been one to hide information. But I'm also quite comfortable that no-one is likely to go to that effort unless they are deliberately targeting me personally. I am also quite comfortable that should anyone go to that much effort, I have adequate safeguards in place that if they attempted to break into my house whilst I'm vacationing or steal my identity, I could be sure that if they aren't caught in the act, they'd be traced post facto and justice would be served. I was on the Internet before it was readily available to the vast majority of people and have always been aware of the pitfalls/risks.

My son is 18 and well versed in the appropriate protections to have in place as he ventures into the ether.

BTW, to correct your quick snapshot of me... I joined this site under a different username [MontyMon] and asked Steve to change it comparatively recently to @Monty but other than that, you were spot on. If you really want to know more about me, there's a link to my own webpage on my profile.

 

[Clancy Wiggum]

I think Disney pretty much already knows if you're staying onsite or leaving for the day. Between room/credit charges, opening the resort room door and park admissions, they can pretty much tell already. I don't see how MM+ really alters that equation much at all.

However, anyone concerned about Disney tracking their movements can forego the Magic Band and stick to KttW cards, which only have short-range RFID (touch to read).

 

[dadddio]

And I disagree about tracking each individual's movements would yield little to no return on investment... Again, they now know Monty has entered Emporium, and has spent 10 minutes looking at the tee shirts... apparently, Monty is conflicted, do I buy this shirt now or no?.. Well, Monty gets a text/email: MONTY BUY THIS SHIRT WITHIN THE NEXT 5 MINUTES AND ENJOY 15% OFF!!! Monty buys the shirt... Now, spread that out over 50,000 people a day, for 365 days a year... Yea, they are going to get a nice return on their investment even if half fall for the marketing ploy...

OK. That's one positive benefit of being tracked while at WDW. Does anyone have a negative?

 

[dadddio]

For example, the @pheneix family is quite interesting. Their offspring prefer Dumbo plush toys, eating at Beach's and Cream, and riding Splash Mountain. Oh, it looks like they like to drink adult beverages and aren't spending time in the parks this Thursday. We know they are celebrating a birthday on Friday. When Thursday rolls around, we need to send them an invitation for 3 bonus FastPasses each and a free desert item available today only. Maybe that will keep them on site.

There's another benefit to being tracked.

Are there any negatives?

 

[dadddio]

The relationship between hotel-nights and ticket length is irrelevant when deciding if a guest is spending time off property. Taking a day off of "parks" while relaxing at the resort, or experiencing recreation and shopping on property, is very common.

I disagree that it's irrelevant. It seems that it wouldn't make a difference to the company whether you were spending off-site or staying on-site, but not spending. Either way, their goal would be to get you to spend. It might actually be more important to them to get you to spend if you didn't go off-site, since you would basically be a drag on resources on those idle days.

 

[pheneix]

Says the guy making up his own theoreticals?

What Phoenix said and where you went are worlds apart.

As far as tracking when you didn't hit the parks and are 'cheating' on Mickey - they've already had that info via your ticket usage.

No, sadly, @dxer07002 , @1023 , and myself are a lot closer on this than one would like to think.

 

[pheneix]

There's another benefit to being tracked.

Are there any negatives?

When a bunch of ed off hackers go all Playstation Network on the beast and put all the information Disney collected about its guests openly on the internet.

That's one negative I can think of. Just the credit card numbers alone is a gigantic PITA to rectify once exposed.

 

[flynnibus]

No, sadly, @dxer07002 , @1023 , and myself are a lot closer on this than one would like to think.

Maybe you can help me reconcile this than... how what you said

Yes, the system is designed to create a rap sheet on you, the guest, including when on your vacation you are not on Disney property. Ideally, NGE's "guest enhancements" will be proactive in identifying potential "bail outs" on a WDW day and is designed to "create an incentive" for said bailouts to remain on property.

And the OP...

"Will people be concerned about negative consequences (worse FP+ options and such) if they actually visit Potter?"

Or are you of the camp that anytime I don't reward you... I'm punishing you? Disney can't take things away from people for not staying loyal to Disney. That's just absurd... there is no way they'd survive the type of backlash that behavior would create. And how does punishing your customer encourage you to return and stop cheating? It's not only stupid PR... it's counter productive.

But what they can do is offer incentives to not leave.. (add things to you) or reward loyalty (again, add above and beyond).

Of course understanding visiting patterns and shaping their products and pricing to keep customers loyal is interesting to the company.. that's kind of a 'duh' one.. and as mentioned in the thread not a new concept for Disney. They've had lots of this data before... the MBs just add more data points. They don't alter the business concepts.. they enhance the abilities of them.

I can't believe people support the idea that Disney who believes they have a core focus of customer service is going to start punishing guests based on incomplete data. Can you imagine the guy at guest relations complaining about how he got penalized and gets less FP than his friend because he didn't goto the parks one day and Mickey thought he was cheating on him when in reality he was just at the hotel pool all day? Not going to happen.

Disney shaping it's product based on customer behavior.. definitely.. that's the point of business intelligence. Disney penalizing people? Again, only if you are the type that believes someone else getting something you don't is punishment.

 

[dadddio]

So those of us who REALLY do stay in the hotel one day, swimming and cooking our own food in the villa are already presumed to be at Universal even though we've never been there and can only afford to go to one or the other not both. That I think is unfair. My Darling Daughter needs one day where we are doing nothing, other wise she is overly stimulated and we end up in a melt down. So Dear Disney can either suck it up, that there will be one day were my family has no activity. It does not automatically mean we are somewhere else.

I think that the idea that the mouse gets mad if you go to universal is basically made up on this (and other) fan forums.

I believe that they want guests spending money with the company throughout their vacations. The company would certainly prefer that a guest didn't lounge by the pool all day and eat a packed lunch. They would prefer that the same guest would pay to hit a water park and eat in on-site restaurants during that 'day off' from the theme parks.

The only difference between the 'pool day' guest and the 'day at universal' guest is the company knows that there was more money that it could have squeezed out of the universal guest.

This idea leads to the importance of FP+ preplanning. By getting people to plan out their vacations a few months ahead, you lock them onto WDW property for those planned days. You also might get them to think hard about the decision to add days to their WDW tickets v. buying tickets to non-Disney parks. For my family, that decision is about spending $30 for the entire family to spend another day at a Disney park versus nearly $300 to go to Universal for the day. Doing that math $60 days out definitely makes you consider another Disney day versus leaving a day open to maybe go off-site.

Some have suggested that FP+ preplanning as a way to increase company profits has failed because most people still won't preplan and that even with travel agent intervention some believe that only about a third of guests will make FP+ prereservations. It seems that even this small percentage will still potentially create some pretty massive revenues for the company.

 

[pheneix]

Maybe you can help me reconcile this than... how what you said



And the OP...

"Will people be concerned about negative consequences (worse FP+ options and such) if they actually visit Potter?"

Or are you of the camp that anytime I don't reward you... I'm punishing you? Disney can't take things away from people for not staying loyal to Disney. That's just absurd... there is no way they'd survive the type of backlash that behavior would create. And how does punishing your customer encourage you to return and stop cheating? It's not only stupid PR... it's counter productive.

But what they can do is offer incentives to not leave.. (add things to you) or reward loyalty (again, add above and beyond).

Of course understanding visiting patterns and shaping their products and pricing to keep customers loyal is interesting to the company.. that's kind of a 'duh' one.. and as mentioned in the thread not a new concept for Disney. They've had lots of this data before... the MBs just add more data points. They don't alter the business concepts.. they enhance the abilities of them.

I can't believe people support the idea that Disney who believes they have a core focus of customer service is going to start punishing guests based on incomplete data. Can you imagine the guy at guest relations complaining about how he got penalized and gets less FP than his friend because he didn't goto the parks one day and Mickey thought he was cheating on him when in reality he was just at the hotel pool all day? Not going to happen.

Disney shaping it's product based on customer behavior.. definitely.. that's the point of business intelligence. Disney penalizing people? Again, only if you are the type that believes someone else getting something you don't is punishment.

Hmmm I will take a very badly written and quick stab at this:

Elements of NGE are designed to reward guests who stay on property and plan out their days. Being able to schedule Fastpasses in advance, for example, a dramatic enhancement for on property guests. Having the ability to control and dictate how a guest experiences this part of their vacation, combined with the Disney Dining Plan and Magical Express and early entry and other incentives (discounts) makes a very compelling case for one to stay on Disney property and forget the outside world. In fact, with free transportation and sometimes free dining, Disney can already inflict financial "punishment" on their guests for venturing off property as such adventures will bring about large expenses that otherwise were not budgeted in the Disney vacation package (the one price that was bought and paid for on plastic that the guest is now paying 18% interest for).

I expect that Disney's pricing is going to be dramatically more competitive and "value driven" in 2014 given the competition from Universal. If NGE can somehow capture these guests into inclusive vacation packages at prices that are perceived as being better "value" than Universal, the opportunity always exists to use this technology to incrementally extract more revenue from guests when they finally arrive. In this manner NGE would be a great success.

NGE is without a shadow of a doubt is Disney's largest and last attempt at holding WDW together as one self-contained resort with one common goal. If this fails, all the technology that has been deployed will be analyzing how and why guests are leaving property and not doing what Disney wants them to do to a stunning degree. If Disney's guests are choosing to take their non-theme park day and are spending it at Disney Springs or at the pool, Disney is going to know this and they are also likely not going to care. It's the guests with rental cars taking their RFID bracelets and tickets off property that are far more interesting.

 

[Monty]

Disney can already inflict financial "punishment" on their guests for venturing off property as such adventures will bring about large expenses that otherwise were not budgeted in the Disney vacation package (the one price that was bought and paid for on plastic that the guest is now paying 18% interest for).

Hyperbole notwithstanding...

There is no "punishment" involved here. Disney has always priced their tickets in such a way as to entice guests to stay in their parks rather than go elsewhere. It is and has always been the case that splitting your vacation between more than one companies' offerings is more expensive. Both WDW and Universal have graduated pricing that makes it progresively cheaper the more days you spend at their parks. That's not punishment, that's incentive.