Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[devoy1701]

Overlapped a bit there, but you are right 2002 isn't the best for analysis, so I'll try to find my stuff from 1994.

haha...we keep doing that!

 

[menamechris]

As i mentioned right before you...we really need to look at hours in the 90s...not from 2002 on because in the wake of Sept 11th park attendance and hours were drastically lower. So I'm definitely not surprised to see hours have increased since 2002.

The hours at the Magic Kingdom may have been longer in the 90's, but the monorails were also babies. I think the new ones came on in 1991 - so ya, a 5 year old monorail probably isn't going to need as much attention and repair as a 15-20 year old one...

 

[Kamikaze]

The hours at the Magic Kingdom may have been longer in the 90's, but the monorails were also babies. I think the new ones came on in 1991 - so ya, a 5 year old monorail probably isn't going to need as much attention and repair as a 15-20 year old one...

Thats correct, 89-91.

I do remember a few times in the mid 90s that during April vacation, Magic Kingdom was open til after midnight. And this was before EMH and E-Ride Nights.

 

[devoy1701]

The hours at the Magic Kingdom may have been longer in the 90's, but the monorails were also babies. I think the new ones came on in 1991 - so ya, a 5 year old monorail probably isn't going to need as much attention and repair as a 15-20 year old one...

Very true. Though it seems as though (and I've heard from sources) that they neglected preventive maintenance over the years. With proper maintenance they should be able to handle their current demanding schedule.

That's my only point. I don't deny that maintenance isn't necessary today, but it's because of neglegance that they have to do this. And while I do think the schedule was just as demanding during the late 90s (cannot confirm :lookaroun), it shouldn't interfere with guest usage. And with this shorter operational schedule with no end date, I fear that this will become a permanent change.

Also, I don't know the reliability of them or the hours of operation, but some of the Mark IVs are still chugging along over in Las Vegas. Not sure what that says about the maintenance of the Mark VIs.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Quick edit there Evan!

I can't find park hours from before 2002 yet...which being in the wake of Sept 11th isn't a great analysis for historic park hours because tourism was at an all time low and hours were greatly reduced, and in 2004 EMH was introduced....so UNTIL I can find park hours from the 90s... I've got nothing...

But this isn't over...

I edited it since I noticed that August has 3 9pm closings at the very end..which makes sense since that is a pretty quiet time. However, I think comparing operations now to the early 90's is kind of ridiculous. How things were done 15-20 years ago and how they are now should not resemble the same things. While I never said that the trains shouldn't have been maintained better, I still stand by the fact that we do not know what is actually being done. You have no idea if this has to do with trains, track, electrical work on the system, etc. Personally, I think that if the monorail had downtime at any point people would be up in arms about it. Operations from when those monorails were fairly new to what they are now is night and day.

I'm just noticing this trend more so now that people get mad when something doesn't get fixed, then get mad when it isn't fixed how they want it to be. Then they get mad when we don't get new things, but just as upset when they replace something outdated with something new. It's gotten to the point, where no matter what I read people are just mad about something. I stand by the fact that we all have a choice as to where we want to go on vacation, and no one forces anyone to go to WDW. If you're unhappy with the management and how things are being done, then just don't give them your money. Would you buy the same car again if you had one you didn't like? Would you fly the same airline if they let you down over and over again? You wouldn't, so why vacation to a place that seems to be doing this.

I don't want what I said to be perceived as harsh or rude (and my You's are not directed at any one person, they are general). However, we are supposed to be a fan community and all I see now if just depression amongst these parts. I like Disney and go because I still find it to be worthwhile for me. I don't agree with some things that they do, but I also don't judge without knowing all the facts. If I ever feel that Disney is not a value or worthwhile to me, I will not go. If I deemed any change significant enough that I wouldn't enjoy myself I would spend my hard earned money elsewhere.

 

[patricia27]

gym!!

1 hour after closing huh. Not good. We have had 3 wonderful 10 day vacations at the poly. Our day usually consists of the parks in the morning, working out at the gym in the afternoon, relalaxing at the pool with an adult beverage from 4-7, and then heading out on the monorail for a signature dinner or to epcot for dinner. No gym and no monorail is making the epcot resorts look better and better.

There is a gym at the Boardwalk, not sure about the other resorts though !!

 

[Pioneer Hall]

There is a gym at the Boardwalk, not sure about the other resorts though !!

There actually is one at the Boardwalk...Muscles and Bustles Health Club.

 

[thehowiet]

.

Also, I don't know the reliability of them or the hours of operation, but some of the Mark IVs are still chugging along over in Las Vegas. Not sure what that says about the maintenance of the Mark VIs.

The Mark IVs haven't been operating in Las Vegas for quite sometime. Since the expansion that opened in 2004 they've been running an updated and fully automated version of the Mark VI, called the Innovia 200. The Mark IVs that were bought from WDW were only used on the original MGM Grand/Bally's line.

 

[devoy1701]

I edited it since I noticed that August has 3 9pm closings at the very end..which makes sense since that is a pretty quiet time. However, I think comparing operations now to the early 90's is kind of ridiculous. How things were done 15-20 years ago and how they are now should not resemble the same things. While I never said that the trains shouldn't have been maintained better, I still stand by the fact that we do not know what is actually being done. You have no idea if this has to do with trains, track, electrical work on the system, etc. Personally, I think that if the monorail had downtime at any point people would be up in arms about it. Operations from when those monorails were fairly new to what they are now is night and day.

I'm just noticing this trend more so now that people get mad when something doesn't get fixed, then get mad when it isn't fixed how they want it to be. Then they get mad when we don't get new things, but just as upset when they replace something outdated with something new. It's gotten to the point, where no matter what I read people are just mad about something. I stand by the fact that we all have a choice as to where we want to go on vacation, and no one forces anyone to go to WDW. If you're unhappy with the management and how things are being done, then just don't give them your money. Would you buy the same car again if you had one you didn't like? Would you fly the same airline if they let you down over and over again? You wouldn't, so why vacation to a place that seems to be doing this.

I don't want what I said to be perceived as harsh or rude (and my You's are not directed at any one person, they are general). However, we are supposed to be a fan community and all I see now if just depression amongst these parts. I like Disney and go because I still find it to be worthwhile for me. I don't agree with some things that they do, but I also don't judge without knowing all the facts. If I ever feel that Disney is not a value or worthwhile to me, I will not go. If I deemed any change significant enough that I wouldn't enjoy myself I would spend my hard earned money elsewhere.

My comparison to operation hours of the late 90s vs today would only be to show that in the past the operational demand on the monorails was just as intense as it is now...that's all. It doesn't have anythign to do with how new or old they are...just that the the schedule was still as demanding and with proper maintenance the trains should still be able to operate with that demand.

Anyway.

True fans know that there are times when they need to be critical Evan, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If it wasn't for fans being critical, and people like Kevin Yee writing articles (another great one today btw), or those of us starting FixTheMagic to track issues, there wouldn't be anything to keep Disney parks in check. With that in mind, this site (and others) are still just as strong of a fan community as always (if not moreso). But the way the tide is going with, as you mention, more people getting up in arms should do nothing more to say that perhaps there are things that should be addressed at WDW and more people are infact noticing them.

And throwing around the term "mad" is a bit of an extreme. For my own position on this thread atleast, I'm not mad at all. I don't stay at Monorail Resorts, and even if I was, I've allowed my pass to lapse and am no longer giving current management ANY of my money, but being critical of decisions does not mean a person is mad or being unrational about it, and that's all I (and most others here) have done, stated that they do not agree with a decision that impacts the guest experience.

Lastly...the idea of "if you don't like it, don't go" is a terrible one. If the true critical fans were the ones to abandon ship because they no longer see the value in visiting WDW, or are fed up with the way management has been acting, then there would be absolutely no one to bark out about bad decisions, increased prices, dimished offerings, poor maintenance, cutting guest experience. Since we know that Disney does read these boards, it's a very VERY good thing that people who do take issue with WDW of today still frequent these fan communities, and do visit WDW every once in awhile because they are the ones who notice the problems and will speak to them. It also helps to keep those pixie dusters in check! :animwink:

 

[devoy1701]

The Mark IVs haven't been operating in Las Vegas for quite sometime. Since the expansion that opened in 2004 they've been running an updated and fully automated version of the Mark VI, called the Innovia 200. The Mark IVs that were bought from WDW were only used on the original MGM Grand/Bally's line.

I stand corrected! Thank you! :wave:

 

[thehowiet]

I stand corrected! Thank you! :wave:

No problem. I can't help it, I'm just a monorail geek :lol:

Like I said earlier in this thread, the trains they now have in Las Vegas run from 7 am to 2 am during the week and from 7 am to 3 am on the weekends, year round. I can't imagine that when the Las Vegas trains and beams get old that they will just permanently reduce their operating hours.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

My comparison to operation hours of the late 90s vs today would only be to show that in the past the operational demand on the monorails was just as intense as it is now...that's all. It doesn't have anythign to do with how new or old they are...just that the the schedule was still as demanding and with proper maintenance the trains should still be able to operate with that demand.

Anyway.

True fans know that there are times when they need to be critical Evan, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. If it wasn't for fans being critical, and people like Kevin Yee writing articles (another great one today btw), or those of us starting FixTheMagic to track issues, there wouldn't be anything to keep Disney parks in check. With that in mind, this site (and others) are still just as strong of a fan community as always (if not moreso). But the way the tide is going with, as you mention, more people getting up in arms should do nothing more to say that perhaps there are things that should be addressed at WDW and more people are infact noticing them.

And throwing around the term "mad" is a bit of an extreme. For my own position on this thread atleast, I'm not mad at all. I don't stay at Monorail Resorts, and even if I was, I've allowed my pass to lapse and am no longer giving current management ANY of my money, but being critical of decisions does not mean a person is mad or being unrational about it, and that's all I (and most others here) have done, stated that they do not agree with a decision that impacts the guest experience.

Lastly...the idea of "if you don't like it, don't go" is a terrible one. If the true critical fans were the ones to abandon ship because they no longer see the value in visiting WDW, or are fed up with the way management has been acting, then there would be absolutely no one to bark out about bad decisions, increased prices, dimished offerings, poor maintenance, cutting guest experience. Since we know that Disney does read these boards, it's a very VERY good thing that people who do take issue with WDW of today still frequent these fan communities, and do visit WDW every once in awhile because they are the ones who notice the problems and will speak to them. It also helps to keep those pixie dusters in check! :animwink:

I've never said it was bad to be critical, but it seems that it has gotten to the point where critical comes from everything. That there is really no decision that gets made where it isn't getting shot down immediately. I look at the Erin Youngs announcement as an example. Comments were in the range of "She's a bean counter, she spent her time in finance, she knows nothing about attractions, etc" The woman didn't have a day on the job yet but she was being sent to gallows for being awful. I don't consider what I do to be snorting pixie dust...I disagree with plenty of the things Disney does as well. However, without both sides in front of the puzzle in front of me who am I to really pass judgement on certain things. Give me something like the Thunder Mountain tarp or the Splash Mountain AA's and I will complain all day, but with something like this I don't know what the situation is or why they are doing this. However, for the most part it was deemed as a budget related move with no regard for the guest experience. Should maintenance have been better...sure, but this could be bigger than just trains that go to shop.

I disagree though that if you don't like it then don't go. Disney isn't anyone's house, and you shouldn't pay them just to go and find what is wrong. Your approach is better if you have indeed gotten rid of your pass. Maybe the people that feel the way you do should do the same and send a letter to Disney in a calm way explaining their decision. Maybe that will change their mind. However, if you spend the money to go to the park, eat their food, and buy their merchandise your complaints do seems somewhat invalid.

We are clearly never going to see eye to eye here, so we might as well give up on the back and forth. I just think that every decision has two sides, and I don't think anyone sits in their office in Disney saying "I don't care about the guests so we will just do whatever saves us a buck"

 

[Kamikaze]

Lastly...the idea of "if you don't like it, don't go" is a terrible one. If the true critical fans were the ones to abandon ship because they no longer see the value in visiting WDW, or are fed up with the way management has been acting, then there would be absolutely no one to bark out about bad decisions, increased prices, dimished offerings, poor maintenance, cutting guest experience. Since we know that Disney does read these boards, it's a very VERY good thing that people who do take issue with WDW of today still frequent these fan communities, and do visit WDW every once in awhile because they are the ones who notice the problems and will speak to them. It also helps to keep those pixie dusters in check! :animwink:

It isn't, though. By continuing to give them your money, you show TDO that the cuts they make aren't that bad, and you'll live with them.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm just noticing this trend more so now that people get mad when something doesn't get fixed, then get mad when it isn't fixed how they want it to be.

Maybe if the company started living up to expectations (or exceeding them) instead of delivering below them. Or if they did things without impacting customer service... things would be more positive?

Some things can't be done without disruption - but many CAN be - they just aren't. Or instead of regular upkeep, they wait until the whole thing needs to be overhauled, etc.

The 'being mad' as you put it is a reflection of the company's impact on customer satisfaction.

Sometimes, people reap what they sow. When the company has been planting years of 'neglect' - they can't just keep show standards up in their normal maint. windows.

Plus when you compound the issue by having such problems in major areas all over... people's tolerance level goes down because it's no longer an 'oops' or 'out of our control'.. it's a result of their neglect.

 

[zulemara]

That's good to know. But I have a feeling that if things go smoothly enough right now, Disney won't even need the larger boats for the GF/Poly route. Honestly, the change doesn't sound too bad now that it's fully in effect, but it would suck to be one of those few people who is noticeably inconvenienced while still spending $150-200 extra per night to be at Poly/GF vs. Wilderness Lodge.

If they add a route to the CR/BLT and combine it with WL, it actually wouldn't be any worse than it is now, because there would be 2 cruisers on the WL route, versus 1 cruiser and a launch that they have right now. The difference would be miniscule.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Maybe if the company started living up to expectations (or exceeding them) instead of delivering below them. Or if they did things without impacting customer service... things would be more positive?

Some things can't be done without disruption - but many CAN be - they just aren't. Or instead of regular upkeep, they wait until the whole thing needs to be overhauled, etc.

The 'being mad' as you put it is a reflection of the company's impact on customer satisfaction.

Sometimes, people reap what they sow. When the company has been planting years of 'neglect' - they can't just keep show standards up in their normal maint. windows.

Plus when you compound the issue by having such problems in major areas all over... people's tolerance level goes down because it's no longer an 'oops' or 'out of our control'.. it's a result of their neglect.

Like I have said, I don't disagree with the fact that there is a decline in certain areas. What I was saying is how I feel that no matter what happens now there doesn't seem to be a win for Disney. I honestly don't know the last time I have heard something positive about a change or addition. Magic, Memories, and You was ripped to shreds months before it even debuted and only then did people admit they might have been wrong about it. If a reduction in monorail hours for a few months or a year makes things better overall, then I can't complain. If maintenance needs to be done on the track, I think this is a better alternative than trying to shut the thing down completely for an extended period of time.

 

[jakeman]

If Coke tasted like ______, I wouldn't keep buying more Coke and hope they change it back. I would stop buying Coke.

 

[zulemara]

what year did monorails start running the resort rails for EPCOT emh? You guys have to account for that in these calculations of operating hours(which, btw, I find quite interesting). If EPCOT is open for EMH, resort rails were running.

Disney makes a lot of budgetary decisions, sure, but I can't see how this was budgetary. From what I've been told, there is an extremely long list of things to be done to the monorails. They DO have 11 of them to do consistent maintenance on. Perhaps this influences why they have given no end date.

Also from a cost perspective, I don't know what the electricity costs to run monorails, but from a labor stand point, they are not saving much. In lieu of what 3 trains running on resort loop during EMH(3 pilots + 5 platforms + central, coordinator, and breakers), they are running 2 launches and 2 ferryboats.(8 pilots, coordinator, and breakers) you're talking a couple people difference in operational need. Boats burn gas, monorails burn electricity, so I can't see how, for the little amount of time they are being down, it's making a big difference cost wise. Just my opinion of course.

 

[thehowiet]

If a reduction in monorail hours for a few months or a year makes things better overall, then I can't complain. If maintenance needs to be done on the track, I think this is a better alternative than trying to shut the thing down completely for an extended period of time.

If it was only temporary, I wouldn't be as bothered. However, many have stated that it appears to be a permanent change. If that is the case, that is just unacceptable, in my opinion.

My hope is that it will just be temporary, but my guess is that once they see that they can get away with these reduced hours, they will keep it that way and not revert back to the original operating schedule. If they are ordering additional boats as others have said, I would guess the reduced monorail hours are permanent.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

If it was only temporary, I wouldn't be as bothered. However, many have stated that it appears to be a permanent change. If that is the case, that is just unacceptable, in my opinion.

My hope is that it will just be temporary, but my guess is that once they see that they can get away with these reduced hours, they will keep it that way and not revert back to the original operating schedule. If they are ordering additional boats as others have said, I would guess the reduced monorail hours are permanent.

Like I have said, I have no idea what the schedule here might be. But they won't call it temporary if this can take 6 months, 1 year, or longer. I'm not sure that I have heard anything credible about more boats being ordered though...but I won't lie and say I have read every post here either. It could very well be the case.