Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[devoy1701]

As a guest who has spent (and will spend!) five out of his past seven WDW vacations at monorail resorts (and as someone who was initially appalled at the change) I'll have to bow to this logic. Anyone who spends enough time on the rails can account for the terrible shape the monorails are in, and I can't say with a straight face that I disapprove of additional maintenance to the monorails.

However, I do think a point is fast approaching where Disney is going to have to bite the bullet and majorly re-invest in transportation infrastructure at WDW. Without this, I fear the monorails will go down even longer for maintenance for the coming years.

1. What about this appears "transparent" to you? To me, transparent would be telling us what they actually plan to do to the monorails or track when everything is shut down. Or, they could clarify how this will affect transport to parties. Or, they could provide an end date for this maintenance instead of leaving it open ended. Or, they could have reached out to monorail guests who had a binding reservation within their 45-day mark and allow them to change their resort with no cancellation fee. This isn't transparent, because the actual people who need to know about this (monorail resort guests who are casual vacationers and not WDW fanatics) are being left in the dark until they get there (because Disney doesn't want to deal with frustrated monorail resort guests). Not transparent at all. Unless there's actually evidence of monorails being refurbished, I think this is just a way to operate the monorails less so they can last longer.

2. You say it only affects 3 out of 20 resorts: exactly. From a numbers standpoint, this is clearly the right decision, since it clearly won't affect too many people (since many people won't even go often enough to realize this is something permanent). Yet, from a guest experience standpoint, there are people who won't be pleased with this. In the past, Disney hasn't made decisions simply because the numbers make sense. And here, by directly impacting monorail resort guests, they risk angering a proportion of their highest-paying clientele. Of course, I'm sure that more people are always available to fill most of the rooms, but still, the fact that this change impacts few people doesn't change the fact that these people are losing a service they thought they were paying for.

3. I'm not canceling any vacation because of this. However, we did change one of our ressies from GF to WL because we saw no reason to pay about $200 more per night just to take a bus back from MK/Epcot on the nights I'm there late. In the future, we're staying at Swan, where (for half the price of many deluxe resorts) we'll have walkways/boats to 2 parks and a bus to MK. To me, if the monorail isn't in operation when I need it, then the monorail resorts really aren't worth the exorbitant rates Disney currently charges for them (even factoring in discounts).

4. I've stayed at the monorail resorts almost every year since 1995, including at least 12 times since 2008. I was quite pleased with how things were going, occasional unexpected downtime and all. This is one of the few things I've ever adamantly complained about. Yeti, Spaceship Earth ending, etc, I really don't care that much. But this struck a nerve because it feels like a slap in the face to monorail resort guests. It's not armchair imagineering - it's a returning customer who felt ripped off and changed bookings originally at GF to cheaper (and non-Disney) unaffected resorts as a result.

I still find it humorous that people are defending the need for the monorails to operate on a reduced schedule because of maintenance issues that impacts the guest experience that has run virtually flawlessley (save a fire, and 2 accidents) for nearly 40 years. The only reason they need additional maintenance and reduced schedules is because the trains have been neglected of proper maintenance for the past decade.

SeaCastle is definitely right that even though this is necessary at this time, I hope that WDW is planning to re-invest and upgrade the current fleet in the near future, because reducing the operating schedule 1 or 2 nights a week by 3 hours isn't really going give much extra time to perform maintenance. Time for new trains.

Couldn't have said it better! Everyone seems to be forgetting that EMH is a benefit for all resort guests, not just those staying at a Monorail resort. We should be glad that we still have EMH, not to mention all the perks we get for staying on property. I leave in 45 days for the most magical place on the planet, and the reduced monorail service won't make me have any less fun!

EMH is a joke as it stands now. With 35,000 onsite hotel rooms and occupancy still in the mid 80% range, having one of the theme parks open (with reduced offerings) an hour early or 3 hours late is hardly a "perk". (With the exception of the Midnight-3am or 1am-4am EMH hours at MK)

Just another thing that TDO needs to rethink but won't.

 

[Tom]

EMH is a joke as it stands now. With 35,000 onsite hotel rooms and occupancy still in the mid 80% range, having one of the theme parks open (with reduced offerings) an hour early or 3 hours late is hardly a "perk". (With the exception of the Midnight-3am or 1am-4am EMH hours at MK)

Just another thing that TDO needs to rethink but won't.

I completely agree. Bring back "E Ticket Night" where you pay a flat fee for the 3-hour perk! Those nights were incredible. I think it was $10 when they started and went up to $13 by the time it was done. Nearly empty park. Ahhhh, the good 'ol days.

 

[desertrat]

What time is the resort mononrail closing at night? That could really impact dinner reservations if dine after 7pm. Thanks

 

[Tom]

What time is the resort mononrail closing at night? That could really impact dinner reservations if dine after 7pm. Thanks

1 hour after park closing.

 

[Kamikaze]

We are in the Vacation Club and love our stays at the Boardwalk. You are near the Yacht and Beach Club, Swan and Dolphin--all places you can walk to and dine there. Also you can boat/walk to Epcot and The Studios. The Boardwalk itself has dining ,shopping and entertainment places--it`s a lovely area.

I'm wearing shorts.

EMH is a joke as it stands now. With 35,000 onsite hotel rooms and occupancy still in the mid 80% range, having one of the theme parks open (with reduced offerings) an hour early or 3 hours late is hardly a "perk". (With the exception of the Midnight-3am or 1am-4am EMH hours at MK)

Just another thing that TDO needs to rethink but won't.

Morning EMH and early mornings in the parks in general are definitely worth it. People just don't want to wake up early to go to the parks.

 

[Tom]

I'm wearing shorts.

:shrug:

 

[Kamikaze]

:shrug:

I thought we were talking about things that didn't matter.

 

[desertrat]

1 hour after closing huh. Not good. We have had 3 wonderful 10 day vacations at the poly. Our day usually consists of the parks in the morning, working out at the gym in the afternoon, relalaxing at the pool with an adult beverage from 4-7, and then heading out on the monorail for a signature dinner or to epcot for dinner. No gym and no monorail is making the epcot resorts look better and better.

 

[Tom]

I thought we were talking about things that didn't matter.

:lol:

 

[flynnibus]

I still find it humorous that people are defending the need for the monorails to operate on a reduced schedule because of maintenance issues that impacts the guest experience that has run virtually flawlessley (save a fire, and 2 accidents) for nearly 40 years. The only reason they need additional maintenance and reduced schedules is because the trains have been neglected of proper maintenance for the past decade.

To be fair - the downtime window has been decreasing during that period as well... so that constrains them. But it's a constraint, not a cause of maintenance issues or lack of upkeep. There are other alternatives.

So it's not a direct comparison to say the only thing that has changed is maint - their operating window has been expanding too. And I certainly wouldn't call them 'virtually flawlessley' they've had reliability issues for a long time. What the park has been able to do tho is keep the system as a whole up very very well.

They could still do that... but it would take a serious investment to keep service up while also taking vehicles down for upkeep.

Heck, look at DL.. the now keep 1/3rd of their monorails offline now for repair. Ouch

 

[durangojim]

1 hour after closing huh. Not good. We have had 3 wonderful 10 day vacations at the poly. Our day usually consists of the parks in the morning, working out at the gym in the afternoon, relalaxing at the pool with an adult beverage from 4-7, and then heading out on the monorail for a signature dinner or to epcot for dinner. No gym and no monorail is making the epcot resorts look better and better.

My wife and I took a 4 night trip to the Poly without the kids last month. We hadn't stayed there in over 10 years. Our last night, we hit EPCOT in the evening, enjoyed food and adult libations around WS until close, took the monorail to the TTC watched the MK fireworks on the beach at 10, went to our room for a while, then hit the Tambu lounge, and then went over to MK via the monorail and stayed until 2:30am. It was very nice taking the monorail both to and from the Poly. I would have been disapointed if we had not been able to do so (although I guess we could have used the boat). There's something kind of romantic about being the only ones in a monorail car at night.

 

[devoy1701]

To be fair - the downtime window has been decreasing during that period as well... so that constrains them. But it's a constraint, not a cause of maintenance issues or lack of upkeep. There are other alternatives.

So it's not a direct comparison to say the only thing that has changed is maint - their operating window has been expanding too. And I certainly wouldn't call them 'virtually flawlessley' they've had reliability issues for a long time. What the park has been able to do tho is keep the system as a whole up very very well.

They could still do that... but it would take a serious investment to keep service up while also taking vehicles down for upkeep.

Heck, look at DL.. the now keep 1/3rd of their monorails offline now for repair. Ouch

I don't think this is completely true. While EMH wasn't available back then, park hours were regularly longer. So while MK wasn't open to 2 or 3am one night a week...it was open until 11 or 12 every night.

Granted, I haven't taken the time to look into the past schedules, but I believe this was the case. I think the demand on the monorails is just as heavy as it's been over the last 10-15 years.

 

[Kamikaze]

I don't think this is completely true. While EMH wasn't available back then, park hours were regularly longer. So while MK wasn't open to 2 or 3am one night a week...it was open until 11 or 12 every night.

Granted, I haven't taken the time to look into the past schedules, but I believe this was the case. I think the demand on the monorails is just as heavy as it's been over the last 10-15 years.

You just contradicted yourself.

If the MK is open til 2-3 for EMH, that means its open 11-12 normally, meaning the other nights.

Also, it isn't peak thats the issue. Hours always have been and always will be longer during peak. Its non-peak that the hours used to be shorter, because the crowds were smaller. Now that the 'slow' season has basically disappeared, the hours year round are longer. Meaning the average hours per day over the year is longer now.

 

[devoy1701]

You just contradicted yourself.

If the MK is open til 2-3 for EMH, that means its open 11-12 normally, meaning the other nights.

Also, it isn't peak thats the issue. Hours always have been and always will be longer during peak. Its non-peak that the hours used to be shorter, because the crowds were smaller. Now that the 'slow' season has basically disappeared, the hours year round are longer. Meaning the average hours per day over the year is longer now.

That wasn't a contradition...I was saying that while MK wasn't open until 2 or 3 am just one night a week it was open to 11 or 12 even single night of the week versus having staggered closing times of 9 or 10 on weekdays, 11 on weekend, and a 2pm closing on EMH...so overall it evens out...

 

[Pioneer Hall]

That wasn't a contradition...I was saying that while MK wasn't open until 2 or 3 am just one night a week it was open to 11 or 12 even single night of the week versus having staggered closing times of 9 or 10 on weekdays, 11 on weekend, and a 2pm closing on EMH...so overall it evens out...

During this summer season the MK was open until 11 or 12 almost every night of the week. There were only a couple of 10pm closings, and the only 9pm closings are a couple at the end August (none in July). Then on top of that, the MK has had EMH about twice a week where it is closing at 2 or 3 am. So, if anything the park and all the support operations are operating more than they have in the past.

 

[zulemara]

During this summer season the MK was open until 11 or 12 almost every night of the week. There were only a couple of 10pm closings and not one 9pm closing in July or August. Then on top of that, the MK has had EMH about twice a week where it is closing at 2 or 3 am. So, if anything the park and all the support operations are operating more than they have in the past.

exactly. You also have to add to that the fact that even in the slow season when MK closes at 8pm, the resort monorail would run while EPCOT was open and EPCOT's hours don't change. So when EPCOT had EMH till midnight, resort rails were running as well. Add to that the EMH at MK and you end up with the same problem. People say it has been running fine for 40 years, but remember these monorails have been in service longer than previous models and the hours HAVE gotten longer. This IS the result of lack of maintenance for the last 10 years because for the last 10 years they have increased operating hours at the expense of maintenance.

People might stay at WDW and never have an issue with the monorails, but those who know, who see it every day, know the things are not reliable and break down constantly. Again, simply look at the major holidays in the last year as examples.

Also, I would think being on a modified sailboat that has been in operation since 1971 with a single driver and no one else on the boat would be quite romantic versus a smelly monorail car, but I guess that's just me.

 

[devoy1701]

During this summer season the MK was open until 11 or 12 almost every night of the week. There were only a couple of 10pm closings, and the only 9pm closings are a couple at the end August (none in July). Then on top of that, the MK has had EMH about twice a week where it is closing at 2 or 3 am. So, if anything the park and all the support operations are operating more than they have in the past.

Quick edit there Evan!

I can't find park hours from before 2002 yet...which being in the wake of Sept 11th isn't a great analysis for historic park hours because tourism was at an all time low and hours were greatly reduced, and in 2004 EMH was introduced....so UNTIL I can find park hours from the 90s... I've got nothing...

But this isn't over...

 

[brifraz]

historical opening hours

Just a quick word on operating hours for MK and how they have increased. I did not do any extensive research, but I did check into the hours a decade ago. Here are the averages for each month of the first half of 2002 compared to 2011.

January 2002 9am-8pm (many days closed at 6:30!)
January 2011 9am-9pm with 5 nights of EMH
February 2002 9am-8pm
February 2011 9am-10pm with 4 nights of EMH
March 2002 9am-8:30pm (Easter week until 11pm, first week until 7pm)
March 2011 9am-10pm with 5 nights of EMH
April 2002 9am-7:30pm (about half until 6pm, half until 9pm)
April 2011 9am-10:30pm with 6 nights of EMH
May 2002 9am-9pm (almost every day was different, so this is the average)
May 2011 9am-10pm with 5 nights of EMH
June 2002 9am-9:30pm
June 2011 9am-10pm with 8 nights of EMH

With a little quick math we find that in the first half of 2011, Magic Kingdom monorails had approximately 350 hours more operating time than in 2002 (or almost 2 hours a night less for repairs on average). Now I certainly agree that maintenance has slacked significantly in the recent past, but it cannot be doubted that the monorails are putting in a lot more time.

If I get really motivated, I think I have hours from 1994 somewhere in a box....I'm sure somebody else on here has better historical operating hours than I do.

 

[brifraz]

Quick edit there Evan!

I can't find park hours from before 2002 yet...which being in the wake of Sept 11th isn't a great analysis for historic park hours because tourism was at an all time low and hours were greatly reduced, and in 2004 EMH was introduced....so UNTIL I can find park hours from the 90s... I've got nothing...

But this isn't over...

Overlapped a bit there, but you are right 2002 isn't the best for analysis, so I'll try to find my stuff from 1994.

 

[devoy1701]

Just a quick word on operating hours for MK and how they have increased. I did not do any extensive research, but I did check into the hours a decade ago. Here are the averages for each month of the first half of 2002 compared to 2011.

January 2002 9am-8pm (many days closed at 6:30!)
January 2011 9am-9pm with 5 nights of EMH
February 2002 9am-8pm
February 2011 9am-10pm with 4 nights of EMH
March 2002 9am-8:30pm (Easter week until 11pm, first week until 7pm)
March 2011 9am-10pm with 5 nights of EMH
April 2002 9am-7:30pm (about half until 6pm, half until 9pm)
April 2011 9am-10:30pm with 6 nights of EMH
May 2002 9am-9pm (almost every day was different, so this is the average)
May 2011 9am-10pm with 5 nights of EMH
June 2002 9am-9:30pm
June 2011 9am-10pm with 8 nights of EMH

With a little quick math we find that in the first half of 2011, Magic Kingdom monorails had approximately 350 hours more operating time than in 2002 (or almost 2 hours a night less for repairs on average). Now I certainly agree that maintenance has slacked significantly in the recent past, but it cannot be doubted that the monorails are putting in a lot more time.

If I get really motivated, I think I have hours from 1994 somewhere in a box....I'm sure somebody else on here has better historical operating hours than I do.

As i mentioned right before you...we really need to look at hours in the 90s...not from 2002 on because in the wake of Sept 11th park attendance and hours were drastically lower. So I'm definitely not surprised to see hours have increased since 2002.