Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[celluloid]

I understand your points - but I feel that there is a misunderstanding here from a business sense. The people that make these decisions at Disney do not look at guests staying at resorts on the Seven Seas Lagoon as paying for anything but their hotel room and the amenities inside the hotel. You are paying for the operations of the hotel and the amenities at said hotel, not the transportation system. It is a completely different division of WDW. Resort guests are also not "paying" for EMH. These are "perks" or "privileges."

Any hospitality or business knows when the customer or guest feels wronged when they are willing and paying, than the business has made a mistake in making them feel that way. That is the classic golden rule. There are people angry, the reason is clearly not their own fault. This is the property's lacking maintenance problem, not the guest therefore is in the wrong for this happening or being upset about it. Also. Complimentary when listed under a hotel service is complimentary to the guests of that hotel. It is thus an expected aspect of staying there regardless. There is a reason it is called a SELLING point of the hotel.

 

[carly200]

what I think is interesting in this debate is that it starts to sound like Disney is cutting monorail transportation completely, which they are NOT.

I agree that it would be an inconvenience on EMH nights, and even on some other nights when dining late...

but it really is just a really tiny fraction when monorail service is not available, so why do you make such a big deal of it?

what happened if they tore down cinderella castle?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

what I think is interesting in this debate is that it starts to sound like Disney is cutting monorail transportation completely, which they are NOT.

I agree that it would be an inconvenience on EMH nights, and even on some other nights when dining late...

but it really is just a really tiny fraction when monorail is not available, so why do you make such a big deal of it?

what happened if they tore down cinderella caslte?

For some people, it is a big deal. It just depends on how you vacation.

In my case, we're planning a 7-night stay at the end of August. Two of those nights are EMH nights at MK. I plan my park time around EMH, so those are the 2 nights that I'll be at MK late (therefore, the other nights don't matter to me). Since I'm going to be inconvenienced during both evenings I'm at MK, it's irrelevant to me whether the monorail is up and running for 90% of the rest of the time. When I need it, it isn't operating, and I have no reason to pay the extra $200 a night to be at a monorail resort when I could just be at Wilderness Lodge and know that I'll be dealing with buses/boats the whole time. I know a lot of resort guests who also plan their park time around EMH, and therefore they would also be annoyed at the change.

I understand your points - but I feel that there is a misunderstanding here from a business sense. The people that make these decisions at Disney do not look at guests staying at resorts on the Seven Seas Lagoon as paying for anything but their hotel room and the amenities inside the hotel. You are paying for the operations of the hotel and the amenities at said hotel, not the transportation system. It is a completely different division of WDW. Resort guests are also not "paying" for EMH. These are "perks" or "privileges."

I think your point is kind of silly and more pedantic than substantial. You can't just brush off all of these things as "perks" or "privileges." They are also selling points. EMH was one of those things that was brought in to help get more people on-property. It's listed in almost all marketing materials as one of the reasons to stay at a Disney resort. People therefore believe that they're paying for the right to use EMH. Similarly, Magical Express is now a "perk" or "privilege" that encourages people to pick a Disney resort, since they don't have to worry about airport transport. People perceive that they're paying for DME, and it helps them justify the inflated prices of Disney rooms. If DME or EMH suddenly went away and room rates stayed the same or increased, I bet more people would suddenly choose to stay at resorts on Hotel Plaza Boulevard (since the value resorts are basically glorified motel rooms with some giant statues and Disney resort perks). The monorail is the same thing. It's a huge selling point for the monorail resorts, and people use the monorail to justify the prices that are higher than other deluxe resorts. I bet John and Jane aren't going to be happy when they find out that they have to fold their stroller and wake up their exhausted baby before boarding their bus from MK to GF, when Suzie from Disney Reservations told them several months ago that they would have the monorail and not have to fold the stroller (and because they booked a magic your way package, they couldn't cancel it after the change was announced).

 

[Kamikaze]

what I think is interesting in this debate is that it starts to sound like Disney is cutting monorail transportation completely, which they are NOT.

No one is saying they are. But if they cut it 3 hours or 3 days, its still a cut. Monorail resort guests should be compensated accordingly.

I agree that it would be an inconvenience on EMH nights, and even on some other nights when dining late...

There are always people dining late. So, you're saying every night.

but it really is just a really tiny fraction when monorail service is not available, so why do you make such a big deal of it?

Because its something reflected in the price of the room. A room rate reduction should be reflected in the decreased services.

what happened if they tore down cinderella castle?

The hell? What exactly does that have to do with anything? The two situations are not even remotely the same. One is a perk of staying at the resort, the other is a building/attraction at the theme park. A much better comparison would be something like not offering free refills on soda at table service meals after 8pm.

 

[carly200]

I think it does matter...

closing an attraction for maintenance or being down/broken is a real inconvenience that I "did not pay for"...

and like I said it is an inconvenience reducing monorail service...

what I don't get is why people fuzz about it so much, but they accept all other crap without even taking note...

THAT IS what i was WONDERING about

 

[Zummi Gummi]

Because its something reflected in the price of the room. A room rate reduction should be reflected in the decreased services.

That would require WDW to place a monetary value on the use of the monorails, which is something they'd never do. The room rates are not, and never have been, linked to the use of the monorail. They're not promoted that way. They'll continue to push the hotel rate up as high as the market will bear it.

 

[EvilQueen-T]

i agree with prior posters in that expressly implied or not the monorail has always been a selling point for the resorts on the 7 seas lagoon...it runs right through the contemporary for heavens sake...it's always been a selling point, and there's no other reason for them to be charging more for stays there as compared to say wl, bwi, or akl. just watch one of the vacation videos they send...it's a selling point for them. i realize those people who either don't stay at these resorts, eat dinner no later than 6pm, who are in bed right after wishes and don't do emh don't have the same issue with them closing down that others do. for me it's just as much of a pain with them stopping the monorail running from epcot early as it is them stopping before the end of emh at mk...so it's not just 2 emh mk nights that interfere with how people like me vacation when staying at a 7 seas lagoon resort. i pay the extra (sometimes) to stay in these resorts specifically to be able to quickly get to/from epcot and mk. i also hate the idea of changing buses 3 times to get from say a meal at the contemporary to get back to the poly if i have a dinner at 8pm in the winter months when the monorail will be closed nice and early...the suggested route by disney is to take a bus from the contemporary to dtd then hop one to the poly....i kid you not. so rather than take the 5 minutes to get back to my resort it will take like an hour...an hour i expect when i stay at resorts not attached to the monorail but pay less for them. i wonder how many more people would have shown a vested interest in the changes if they said they were not running it in the morning when it's mainly the stroller pushing crowd rather than in the late evenings when it tends to be an older crowd. with all this going on although i'm already booked for 4 days later this month at the poly our fall (late november) trip will be back at pofq.

 

[menamechris]

I think your point is kind of silly and more pedantic than substantial. You can't just brush off all of these things as "perks" or "privileges." They are also selling points. EMH was one of those things that was brought in to help get more people on-property. It's listed in almost all marketing materials as one of the reasons to stay at a Disney resort. People therefore believe that they're paying for the right to use EMH. Similarly, Magical Express is now a "perk" or "privilege" that encourages people to pick a Disney resort, since they don't have to worry about airport transport. People perceive that they're paying for DME, and it helps them justify the inflated prices of Disney rooms. If DME or EMH suddenly went away and room rates stayed the same or increased, I bet more people would suddenly choose to stay at resorts on Hotel Plaza Boulevard (since the value resorts are basically glorified motel rooms with some giant statues and Disney resort perks). The monorail is the same thing. It's a huge selling point for the monorail resorts, and people use the monorail to justify the prices that are higher than other deluxe resorts. I bet John and Jane aren't going to be happy when they find out that they have to fold their stroller and wake up their exhausted baby before boarding their bus from MK to GF, when Suzie from Disney Reservations told them several months ago that they would have the monorail and not have to fold the stroller (and because they booked a magic your way package, they couldn't cancel it after the change was announced).

HAHA! Gee, I sure am glad you found a way to use the word "pedantic" today. Everyone is saying that having the monorail running during EMH is a "selling point". Well, apparently not anymore - Disney doesn't feel they need to use that "selling point" anymore to fill the resort. The point of staying at a resort on the monorail line is not to get guests back during EMH via monorail - more the value is being able to get you to the MK in a matter of minutes - as opposed to having to deal with the TTC. It is rather daft to assume that people will not see the value of the three hotels because they will have to take a boat to their resort instead of a monorail the one night of their vacation there is EMH at the MK. Anyone who is scrambling to cancel a reservation over this probably shouldn't be staying at a deluxe resort to begin with. It is not who Disney is marketing those resorts to these days. People who tend to stay at deluxe resorts (myself included) stay for a long list of reasons, none of which include the monorail running during EMH...

 

[menamechris]

Monorail resort guests should be compensated accordingly.

Wow, I will bet you dinner at the resort of your choice that rates increase at these hotels next year...as usual. Disney is not in the business of "being fair to an uninformed guest". You have been informed. They didn't make this change and not announce it. It is clear - and it is up to guest to decide if the room rate is still worth it for their needs. For lack of a better term - these are the "cool" hotels at WDW. They are iconic - and people want to stay in them. No one dreams of staying at Beach Club - but I am sure there are many guests who have always wanted to stay at a resort on the lagoon. The market will not be affected by this fairly minor adjustment to the monorail schedule.

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

HAHA! Gee, I sure am glad you found a way to use the word "pedantic" today.

Not relevant to the topic. It's not like my word choice was wrong - the debate had moved to a discussion of right vs. privilege vs. perk, which really has no bearing anyway. I care about the monorail.

Everyone is saying that having the monorail running during EMH is a "selling point". Well, apparently not anymore - Disney doesn't feel they need to use that "selling point" anymore to fill the resort.

I never once said that Disney can't get away with this. They certainly will, and whoever ends up filling the resorts will inevitably learn to forget or deal with the change. That doesn't mean that the monorail wasn't a selling point of those resorts, and a large reason why people picked them.

The point of staying at a resort on the monorail line is not to get guests back during EMH via monorail - more the value is being able to get you to the MK in a matter of minutes - as opposed to having to deal with the TTC.

You don't have to deal with the TTC at all to get back to any resort from MK, so that point means nothing. And again, WL is also a few minutes from MK (with bus or boat transport). And you can watch MK's fireworks and see the Castle from WL and watch the water pageant too, so WL's cheaper rates are largely connected to transport (considering WL is one of the most elaborately themed resorts).

It is rather daft to assume that people will not see the value of the three hotels because they will have to take a boat to their resort instead of a monorail the one night of their vacation there is EMH at the MK. Anyone who is scrambling to cancel a reservation over this probably shouldn't be staying at a deluxe resort to begin with.

Wow. Get off your throne, you have no right to judge who should or shouldn't be staying at these resorts. For the record, I've only stayed at Disney's deluxe resorts (and sometimes in one-bedroom DVC villas at BLT and AKV), and for 7 years we stayed exclusively at the monorail resorts. I'm not just a random forum member who's never stayed at these resorts and has no plan to. And I'm still upset about this. For us, a large part of the value of Poly (vs. WL or BC, for example) is the monorail to MK. If I'm fine with a bus to MK, I could just stay at an Epcot resort for less $$$ and walk to Epcot/DHS and have the bus to MK.

It is not who Disney is marketing those resorts to these days. People who tend to stay at deluxe resorts (myself included) stay for a long list of reasons, none of which include the monorail running during EMH...

We also have our laundry list: bigger rooms, better theming, better pools, better restaurants, and convenience to parks (monorail, boat, walkway, etc). In addition, lots of people with special needs (strollers, handicapped) love how the monorail is so accessible compared to the bus. But these points are all relative. This laundry list shows why the deluxes beat moderates and values. But Disney deluxe resorts aren't the epitome of luxury by any means. People aren't picking Poly for a luxury experience. There's a Ritz Carlton in Orlando for that, or even the Waldorf which is very close to WDW. But people book Poly and CR largely for monorail access. GF is the only one that I think could stand on its own without the monorail, and even that's a stretch.

My bottom line: people are entitled to be upset and change their plans because of this change. You don't have to sit and judge. Your opinion isn't absolute (and I would say your opinion doesn't match the majority of monorail guests, considering that someone has already mentioned there have been lots of complaints since the change took effect at Epcot).

Wow, I will bet you dinner at the resort of your choice that rates increase at these hotels next year...as usual.

You don't have to bet. Room rates are higher for 2012. We already know that.

Disney is not in the business of "being fair to an uninformed guest". You have been informed. They didn't make this change and not announce it.

The change was announced within the 45-day mark for many guests. The Epcot change basically took effect immediately. That's not proper notice, since guests who booked a package must incur a fee if this news impacts their plans.

For lack of a better term - these are the "cool" hotels at WDW. They are iconic - and people want to stay in them. No one dreams of staying at Beach Club.

:lol: I have to admit that this is true. But the Epcot resorts (IMO) are nicer hotels than Poly and Contemporary, which still cost more (ignoring CR's garden wing, which is the only "uncool" place on the monorail line).

The market will not be affected by this fairly minor adjustment to the monorail schedule.

I never disagreed with that. But that's not a reason in itself to simply say "oh well, this change is alright because other people are less impacted than me."

 

[flynnibus]

The room rates are not, and never have been, linked to the use of the monorail. They're not promoted that way

Why do you think those resorts cost more in your slice of the world? Demand? Ok, why do you think those resorts are in greater demand to justify a higher price when they are the oldest resorts on property (sans the GF).. they are only close to one park, while the others are more central to the whole property, etc.

You say they don't promote the monorail... yeah.. righhtt.

So what in your universe justifies these properties being the highest in the resort?

 

[puntagordabob]

. Everyone is saying that having the monorail running during EMH is a "selling point". Well, apparently not anymore - Disney doesn't feel they need to use that "selling point" anymore to fill the resort. The point of staying at a resort on the monorail line is not to get guests back during EMH via monorail -

Have you seen the planning videos? Or any material put out by Disney that has any of these resorts in them??? It is almost a certainty (especially with the CR) that the monorail will be PROMINENTLY displayed in the ad..... this is true currently...

The monorail line is most certainly supposed to move Guests from the CR, Poly, & GF to and from the MK...if you are legally in the park that is!

No one dreams of staying at Beach Club - but I am sure there are many guests who have always wanted to stay at a resort on the lagoon. The market will not be affected by this fairly minor adjustment to the monorail schedule.

As to your second point...the changes are just beginning..and I agree with other posters that this is a step towards eliminating the evening EMH once and for all!

As for your first point regarding the Beach Club... are you Kidding me???? There are people that dream of THEIR favorite resort..... My sister dreams of All-Star Movies.....my brother dreams of Old Key West Resort.....I dream of the Contemporary Resort (along with the BLT)... so there is ABSOLUTELY someone who dreams of staying at the Beach Club!!!!!!!

 

[disneyrcks]

Why do you think those resorts cost more in your slice of the world? Demand? Ok, why do you think those resorts are in greater demand to justify a higher price when they are the oldest resorts on property (sans the GF).. they are only close to one park, while the others are more central to the whole property, etc.

You say they don't promote the monorail... yeah.. righhtt.

So what in your universe justifies these properties being the highest in the resort?

While I agree that the monorail is some of the reason why these resorts are more expensive, I think the main reasons are the location to the MK, the beaches and ability to watch Wishes from your resort and viewing of the Water Pagent. Also as someone else stated, they do hold something of an iconic status being the original three. I do not think they are more expensive because they offer monorail service to EMH. While we will continue to stay at monorail resorts, I can see the inconvenience of not having it for dinner reservations, etc. I can also see it being a problem if it is raining but overall I still believe these resorts are worth staying at so we will continue to stay at them (in addition to the Epcot resorts which we absolutely love).

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

While I agree that the monorail is some of the reason why these resorts are more expensive, I think the main reasons are the location to the MK, the beaches and ability to watch Wishes from your resort and viewing of the Water Pagent. Also as someone else stated, they do hold something of an iconic status being the original three. I do not think they are more expensive because they offer monorail service to EMH. While we will continue to stay at monorail resorts, I can see the inconvenience of not having it for dinner reservations, etc. I can also see it being a problem if it is raining but overall I still believe these resorts are worth staying at so we will continue to stay at them (in addition to the Epcot resorts which we absolutely love).

1. Wilderness Lodge is practically as close to MK, distance-wise. WL has beaches and is on Bay Lake. You can see Wishes from WL, as well as the Water Pageant. WL is themed far more elaborately than the monorail resorts, including Poly. WL does not have the monorail, and it costs a lot less.

2. Nobody is directly saying that the monorail during EMH is a reason why the resorts cost more. But the monorail in general is a huge factor. People expect the monorail to operate during MK and Epcot's operating hours, which (for resort guests) includes EMH. And like I said, if someone plans their nights to be at EMH and then has to take a bus back whenever they're at MK or Epcot late, it almost defeats the purpose of picking a monorail resort (since the Epcot resorts are better for Epcot and DHS, YC and BC have the best pool, BW has late night entertainment, WL and AKL are the cheapest deluxes, AKL has a niche with the animals, etc). None of the monorail resorts have great pools (the volcano pool is popular but small), the resorts are old and have parts that look outdated (Poly and CR in particular have some very tacky designs), and GF just doesn't live up to the luxury resorts that it was built to compete with (Eisner wanted an AAA 5-diamond resort, and I don't think GF was ever good enough). I love these places (been staying at Poly since I was 3, and GF is my favorite Disney resort) but these resorts aren't good enough to make up for a lack of monorail access when I need it.

 

[disneyrcks]

1. Wilderness Lodge is practically as close to MK, distance-wise. WL has beaches and is on Bay Lake. You can see Wishes from WL, as well as the Water Pageant. WL is themed far more elaborately than the monorail resorts, including Poly. WL does not have the monorail, and it costs a lot less.

I did not realize that there is a good view of the fireworks from WL. Do they have the music too? I am not a big Poly fan but they do have great theming including the torch lighting ceremony. Is the Wilderness Lodge that much cheaper directly because the monorail does not run through it? I honestly do not know?

2. Nobody is directly saying that the monorail during EMH is a reason why the resorts cost more. But the monorail in general is a huge factor. People expect the monorail to operate during MK and Epcot's operating hours, which (for resort guests) includes EMH. And like I said, if someone plans their nights to be at EMH and then has to take a bus back whenever they're at MK or Epcot late, it almost defeats the purpose of picking a monorail resort (since the Epcot resorts are better for Epcot and DHS, YC and BC have the best pool, BW has late night entertainment, WL and AKL are the cheapest deluxes, AKL has a niche with the animals, etc). None of the monorail resorts have great pools (the volcano pool is popular but small), the resorts are old and have parts that look outdated (Poly and CR in particular have some very tacky designs), and GF just doesn't live up to the luxury resorts that it was built to compete with (Eisner wanted an AAA 5-diamond resort, and I don't think GF was ever good enough). I love these places (been staying at Poly since I was 3, and GF is my favorite Disney resort) but these resorts aren't good enough to make up for a lack of monorail access when I need it.

That is your opinion and you are absolutely entitled to it. We utilize night EMH everytime we visit. We like to sleep in late and have a system for EMH which is stay at Epcot then head via monorail to MK. However we are willing to take a bus as it would be a short ride back to the resort, or take a boat. We also love having the monorail for all the other times for our trip. We will continue to stay at monorail resorts because it is nice for us to get up at ten and jump on a monorail. If they took away the monorails completely it would be a different story. Most of the time we will be a BLT so we will walk or utilize alternate transportation if there is extreme weather. As far as pools go we like the pools at CR and BLT. I agree the volcano pool at Poly is overrated. I guess what I am saying is that I respect your position but for us it is still worth it to stay at a monorail resort so we can get around without the boat for the majority of our trip.

PS I did know you have a clear view of the castle and fireworks from WL in addition to the Water Pagent. That is something we will definitely consider for the future. Do they also have the Wishes music playing on the beach at WL?

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

That is your opinion and you are absolutely entitled to it. We utilize night EMH everytime we visit. We like to sleep in late and have a system for EMH which is stay at Epcot then head via monorail to MK. However we are willing to take a bus as it would be a short ride back to the resort, or take a boat. We also love having the monorail for all the other times for our trip. We will continue to stay at monorail resorts because it is nice for us to get up at ten and jump on a monorail. If they took away the monorails completely it would be a different story. Most of the time we will be a BLT so we will walk or utilize alternate transportation if there is extreme weather. As far as pools go we like the pools at CR and BLT. I agree the volcano pool at Poly is overrated. I guess what I am saying is that I respect your position but for us it is still worth it to stay at a monorail resort so we can get around without the boat for the majority of our trip.

PS I did know you have a clear view of the castle and fireworks from WL in addition to the Water Pagent. That is something we will definitely consider for the future. Do they also have the Wishes music playing on the beach at WL?

And you're entitled to your opinion. Some people here seem to think it's outrageous for me to expect a monorail to take me from MK to GF/Poly when I'm paying $400 a night. I just have to disagree with that. It's not me being a snob - I'll stay at WL or BC instead and happily take the bus.

And while the view of the Water Pageant at WL was from our room, the view of the fireworks and Castle was actually from a window on the western side of the building. It's not as blatant as the beach at Poly (and there wasn't music), but it was a fireworks view nonetheless.

Water parade from our room:

Contemporary from my special window:

And Wishes from WL:

 

[disneyrcks]

And you're entitled to your opinion. Some people here seem to think it's outrageous for me to expect a monorail to take me from MK to GF/Poly when I'm paying $400 a night. I just have to disagree with that. It's not me being a snob - I'll stay at WL or BC instead and happily take the bus.

And while the view of the Water Pageant at WL was from our room, the view of the fireworks and Castle was actually from a window on the western side of the building. It's not as blatant as the beach at Poly (and there wasn't music), but it was a fireworks view nonetheless.

Water parade from our room:

Contemporary from my special window:

And Wishes from WL:

Thank you for respecting my opinion and thank you for the pics! The first place I stayed with my husband (boyfriend at the time) he surprised me with a night at WL and I have always wanted to go back. It is definitely a must do for us now!

 

[flavious27]

I understand your points - but I feel that there is a misunderstanding here from a business sense. The people that make these decisions at Disney do not look at guests staying at resorts on the Seven Seas Lagoon as paying for anything but their hotel room and the amenities inside the hotel. You are paying for the operations of the hotel and the amenities at said hotel, not the transportation system. It is a completely different division of WDW. Resort guests are also not "paying" for EMH. These are "perks" or "privileges." For example, years ago when I went to the grocery store, they used to have bag boys that would carry your bags or take your cart out to your car for you. It was a "perk" - something to make me feel like they were going above and beyond. As of the last few years - I understand that they probably can't afford to pay ten bag boys at any given time. The perk was taken away. Do I expect a reduction in food prices? Obviously not. One has nothing to do with the other. And just because I choose to shop at that store does not make me entitled to a service like that. It was something I enjoyed - but logic tells me why they have cut back on it.

In this case - I think the hundred or so people who are staying at these resorts during EMH at the MK any given night can understand the same thing. It was enjoyable while it lasted - perhaps one day it may come back - certainly if it affects bookings - but we all know it most likely won't. These hotels are the most iconic on property - people will want to stay at them regardless of whether the monorail does or doesn't run during EMH...

Calling anything a perk for hotel guests, regardless of the resort and or level, is not correct because guests pay for it anyway; disney is not providing services that are unfunded. There is talk of disney giving deluxe guests more fastpasses, I am sure that any increases in hotel prices will cover this new "perk".

That would require WDW to place a monetary value on the use of the monorails, which is something they'd never do. The room rates are not, and never have been, linked to the use of the monorail. They're not promoted that way. They'll continue to push the hotel rate up as high as the market will bear it.

I bet disney does put a value on the use of the monorail by seven seas resort guests, they just won't disclose it to the public.

 

[thehowiet]

I bet disney does put a value on the use of the monorail by seven seas resort guests, they just won't disclose it to the public.

I have to agree with you here. I'd be surprised if Disney didn't attach a dollar value to the monorail. From what I understand, the monorail resorts pay into the transportation budget. I know it's all the same company, but it's just how the accounting works. If they have an amount that each resort pays into the transportation budget, I'm sure they've broken that figure down to the per guest level.

 

[draybook]

I have to agree with you here. I'd be surprised if Disney didn't attach a dollar value to the monorail. From what I understand, the monorail resorts pay into the transportation budget. I know it's all the same company, but it's just how the accounting works. If they have an amount that each resort pays into the transportation budget, I'm sure they've broken that figure down to the per guest level.

Except then you have to break it down by length of stay for each party, and do we honestly expect them to do something like that? Plus, how would you charge each party? Do you charge them based on the number of people in their party, or do you only count the "adults"?