Monorails to no longer operate during Evening Extra Magic Hours

[celluloid]

First of all - I know you are new - but have you read anything I have posted on here...ever? I am HARDLY an apologist. With that said, no one can expect the resort to spend tens to hundreds of millions of dollars every 10-20 years to replace the monorail fleet. That is just not realistic....sorry

Admitting Disney is in the wrong in the same post as going "Well would you rather they.." and I was targeting the fact that certain people will go and tell someone they should just go rent a car. That is an apologist sort of stance. Sorry, but if they are expecting that service when they pay for such a resort that features a monorail track going through it than that is always the guest's right to be disappointed. I did not necessarily mean the entire fleet of monorails every two decades, but entire components should be replaced before they have to start shut downs of this nature. Disney makes plenty enough to make sure that things are kept up to running standards at the very least. If they are willing to take people's money for Extra Magic Hours, they should be providing them the service. It is clear that people feel that way.

 

[menamechris]

Admitting Disney is in the wrong in the same post as going "Well would you rather they.." and I was targeting the fact that certain people will go and tell someone they should just go rent a car. That is an apologist sort of stance. Sorry, but if they are expecting that service when they pay for such a resort that features a monorail track going through it than that is always the guest's right to be disappointed. I did not necessarily mean the entire fleet of monorails every two decades, but entire components should be replaced before they have to start shut downs of this nature. Disney makes plenty enough to make sure that things are kept up to running standards at the very least. If they are willing to take people's money for Extra Magic Hours, they should be providing them the service. It is clear that people feel that way.

I understand your points - but I feel that there is a misunderstanding here from a business sense. The people that make these decisions at Disney do not look at guests staying at resorts on the Seven Seas Lagoon as paying for anything but their hotel room and the amenities inside the hotel. You are paying for the operations of the hotel and the amenities at said hotel, not the transportation system. It is a completely different division of WDW. Resort guests are also not "paying" for EMH. These are "perks" or "privileges." For example, years ago when I went to the grocery store, they used to have bag boys that would carry your bags or take your cart out to your car for you. It was a "perk" - something to make me feel like they were going above and beyond. As of the last few years - I understand that they probably can't afford to pay ten bag boys at any given time. The perk was taken away. Do I expect a reduction in food prices? Obviously not. One has nothing to do with the other. And just because I choose to shop at that store does not make me entitled to a service like that. It was something I enjoyed - but logic tells me why they have cut back on it.

In this case - I think the hundred or so people who are staying at these resorts during EMH at the MK any given night can understand the same thing. It was enjoyable while it lasted - perhaps one day it may come back - certainly if it affects bookings - but we all know it most likely won't. These hotels are the most iconic on property - people will want to stay at them regardless of whether the monorail does or doesn't run during EMH...

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

I understand your points - but I feel that there is a misunderstanding here from a business sense. The people that make these decisions at Disney do not look at guests staying at resorts on the Seven Seas Lagoon as paying for anything but their hotel room and the amenities inside the hotel. You are paying for the operations of the hotel and the amenities at said hotel, not the transportation system. It is a completely different division of WDW. Resort guests are also not "paying" for EMH. These are "perks" or "privileges." For example, years ago when I went to the grocery store, they used to have bag boys that would carry your bags or take your cart out to your car for you. It was a "perk" - something to make me feel like they were going above and beyond. As of the last few years - I understand that they probably can't afford to pay ten bag boys at any given time. The perk was taken away. Do I expect a reduction in food prices? Obviously not. One has nothing to do with the other. And just because I choose to shop at that store does not make me entitled to a service like that. It was something I enjoyed - but logic tells me why they have cut back on it.

In this case - I think the hundred or so people who are staying at these resorts during EMH at the MK any given night can understand the same thing. It was enjoyable while it lasted - perhaps one day it may come back - certainly if it affects bookings - but we all know it most likely won't. These hotels are the most iconic on property - people will want to stay at them regardless of whether the monorail does or doesn't run during EMH...

That's wrong

The monorail access in these three hotels is also something you pay for, otherwise these hotels would not be the most expensive in WDW. WL for example is a deluxe too, is in the MK area of the park but has no monorail and that is why it is cheaper than the other three.
As a resort guest in the monorail resorts you DO pay for the transportation.

 

[menamechris]

That's wrong

The monorail access in these three hotels is also something you pay for, otherwise these hotels would not be the most expensive in WDW. WL for example is a deluxe too, is in the MK area of the park but has no monorail and that is why it is cheaper than the other three.
As a resort guest in the monorail resorts you DO pay for the transportation.

That's a debatable point. Does Disney know that they can charge more because there is a monorail line attached to the hotel? Yes. Does that mean you are directly paying for it? No. And the increase in price is also due to the proximity to the Magic Kingdom, you know - the theme park most guests would want to be closest to, because it is the most popular. They are also the only resorts you can watch fireworks from at night and not pay for a ticket to get in the park. The mere fact that you can walk outside your hotel (or even from your window depending on your room) and see the castle...that commands an increase in price. To say you are PAYING for the monorail and that is the sole reason that the SSL lagoon resorts are more is quite frankly incorrect. And AGAIN - the resort monorail line is not being discontinued. You just simply have to opt to take a boat ride for one night of your vacation during EMH. If anyone is paying hundreds of extra dollars a night for that ONE ride during their vacation....well, I dunno, I guess then you have license to be upset.

 

[puntagordabob]

That's a debatable point. Does Disney know that they can charge more because there is a monorail line attached to the hotel? Yes. Does that mean you are directly paying for it? No. .

Imho those are opposite points...you either are paying more or you are not...

As for the fireworks...any guest from any resort has the ability to stand on the Poly beach or wherever to see the fireworks....even if they are NOT Poly guests....so your point on that aspect is sorta mute for the most part.

The answer is you ARE paying more for monorail access....Period.

 

[njDizFan]

I understand your points - but I feel that there is a misunderstanding here from a business sense. The people that make these decisions at Disney do not look at guests staying at resorts on the Seven Seas Lagoon as paying for anything but their hotel room and the amenities inside the hotel. You are paying for the operations of the hotel and the amenities at said hotel, not the transportation system. It is a completely different division of WDW. Resort guests are also not "paying" for EMH. These are "perks" or "privileges." For example, years ago when I went to the grocery store, they used to have bag boys that would carry your bags or take your cart out to your car for you. It was a "perk" - something to make me feel like they were going above and beyond. As of the last few years - I understand that they probably can't afford to pay ten bag boys at any given time. The perk was taken away. Do I expect a reduction in food prices? Obviously not. One has nothing to do with the other. And just because I choose to shop at that store does not make me entitled to a service like that. It was something I enjoyed - but logic tells me why they have cut back on it.

In this case - I think the hundred or so people who are staying at these resorts during EMH at the MK any given night can understand the same thing. It was enjoyable while it lasted - perhaps one day it may come back - certainly if it affects bookings - but we all know it most likely won't. These hotels are the most iconic on property - people will want to stay at them regardless of whether the monorail does or doesn't run during EMH...

You make some valid points. This decision will not drastically effect too many people on a dialy basis. But you cannot deny that any way you slice it, this is a cost saving initiative. Either to cut down on energy costs, or avoid hiring more maintenance technicians or push back the inevitable choice of purchasing a new monorails fleet. As a business decision I'm sure we can all understand wanting to save some money but it is just another small perk being reduced in favor of money instead of guest satisfaction.

When was the last time they actually decided to add to the experience instead of reducing.

 

[AMartin767]

That's a debatable point. Does Disney know that they can charge more because there is a monorail line attached to the hotel? Yes. Does that mean you are directly paying for it? No. And the increase in price is also due to the proximity to the Magic Kingdom, you know - the theme park most guests would want to be closest to, because it is the most popular. They are also the only resorts you can watch fireworks from at night and not pay for a ticket to get in the park. The mere fact that you can walk outside your hotel (or even from your window depending on your room) and see the castle...that commands an increase in price. To say you are PAYING for the monorail and that is the sole reason that the SSL lagoon resorts are more is quite frankly incorrect. And AGAIN - the resort monorail line is not being discontinued. You just simply have to opt to take a boat ride for one night of your vacation during EMH. If anyone is paying hundreds of extra dollars a night for that ONE ride during their vacation....well, I dunno, I guess then you have license to be upset.

Yes. Disney does list their transportation systems as "complementary" which by definition means it is being provided at no charge. However, when a company provides a product for an extended period of time, they set up an expectation that is reinforced by continued supply of said product whether it is free or not. For example, I doubt seriously menamechris that you would not become very upset with any given fast-food establishment if you purchased a drink and then were told you must pay for addtional refills. Though free refills at these places are "complementary", the buying public has come to expect this service as a condition of purchasing a soda drink.

In fact, if we compare the resort descriptions (listed on Disneyworld.com website) we find the following:

Wilderness Lodge Resort -

Transportation to and from Disney's Wilderness Lodge is complimentary for Resort hotel Guests.

While staying at Walt Disney World Resort hotels, there's no need to rent a car, or deal with the hassle of driving and parking. Save time and the hassle of driving and parking with complimentary transportation. Destinations throughout Walt Disney World Resort, including Disney Theme Parks and Disney Water Parks, are accessible by bus and boats.


Grand Floridian Resort -

Transportation to and from Disney's Grand Floridian Resort & Spa is complimentary for Resort hotel Guests.

While staying at Walt Disney World Resort hotels, there's no need to rent a car, or deal with the hassle of driving and parking. Save time and the hassle of driving and parking with complimentary transportation. Destinations throughout Walt Disney World Resort, including Disney Theme Parks and Disney Water Parks, are accessible by bus, boat and monorail.

This clearly shows that despite the monorail being "Complementary", Disney is using this as a selling point between resorts. Otherwise, Disney would list the monorail as a transportation for the Wilderness Lodge as well because the monorail can actually be used by anyone. In fact, if I were a guest who did not know Disney's transportation the way we geeks do, I might interperate this to mean that the resort Monorail is used exclusively by those resort guests staying on that line (hence the reason for the increased cost at those resorts). I do realize that there are other differences in amenities between these two resorts that justify some of the increased cost.

Above all of this lies the indisputable fact that Disney presents it's parks and resorts as the pinnacle of all vacation destinations. Perception is reality and Disney themselves, for better or worse, have positioned themselves with this perception of being the top choice purposely. In order to maintain this perception, they must provide the same services that have been provided for many years or else risk being seen as not meeting the perceived expectation they themselves have created. This is the inherent responsibility that a company must assume and fulfill if they are going to proclaim themselves "The Best" in the pubic eye.

 

[Kamikaze]

That's a debatable point. Does Disney know that they can charge more because there is a monorail line attached to the hotel? Yes. Does that mean you are directly paying for it? No. And the increase in price is also due to the proximity to the Magic Kingdom, you know - the theme park most guests would want to be closest to, because it is the most popular. They are also the only resorts you can watch fireworks from at night and not pay for a ticket to get in the park. The mere fact that you can walk outside your hotel (or even from your window depending on your room) and see the castle...that commands an increase in price. To say you are PAYING for the monorail and that is the sole reason that the SSL lagoon resorts are more is quite frankly incorrect. And AGAIN - the resort monorail line is not being discontinued. You just simply have to opt to take a boat ride for one night of your vacation during EMH. If anyone is paying hundreds of extra dollars a night for that ONE ride during their vacation....well, I dunno, I guess then you have license to be upset.

Yes, you're paying for the closeness to MK. But what causes it to be close? The monorail. Taking the boats takes time. Contemporary you can walk, yes, and I do when I stay there. But you can't do the same at GF or Poly, even though they should finish that walkway over the two canals to GF, then everyone would be able to walk (though Poly is a hike.)
Wilderness Lodge is not far from MK either, but it pays a lower rate, by far. And it has boat/bus transport to MK. Same as the monorail resorts do, without the monorail. And WL is considered to be, by many, the best themed resort on property. Yet its much cheaper than even Poly, which is the lowest priced monorail resort on average room rate. Why the difference? Because you don't have the monorail. Are the MK sightlines part of the cost? Sure, I would figure so. But the monorail is most of it.

Imho those are opposite points...you either are paying more or you are not...

As for the fireworks...any guest from any resort has the ability to stand on the Poly beach or wherever to see the fireworks....even if they are NOT Poly guests....so your point on that aspect is sorta mute for the most part.

The answer is you ARE paying more for monorail access....Period.

MOOT

 

[Zummi Gummi]

We're only talking about not having monorail access for 2-3 hours, two nights a week (one night for MK EMH, one for Epcot). It's not as if Disney is shutting down the monorails completely, which by some peoples' posts here, you'd think they were.

If not being able to ride the monorail those two nights makes you not want to stay at a monorail resort, then don't. For my money, I find the Epcot resorts much nicer, anyway.

 

[Kamikaze]

We're only talking about not having monorail access for 2-3 hours, two nights a week (one night for MK EMH, one for Epcot). It's not as if Disney is shutting down the monorails completely, which by some peoples' posts here, you'd think they were.

If not being able to ride the monorail those two nights makes you not want to stay at a monorail resort, then don't. For my money, I find the Epcot resorts much nicer, anyway.

You're right on almost everything.
I prefer the Epcot resorts as well (walk to 2 parks).
I guess since EMH is already a perk, they figure they don't have to cut room rates to cover the monorail not being available.
Don't forget though, its also closing the monorail 1 hour after park close to even the resort loop. Meaning - no resort hopping without taking a boat, every night. Can be a problem for people trying to eat at the other resorts.

 

[flynnibus]

on the 'paying' or not... it's an amenity of the resort. How the monorail itself is funded is irrelevant... the price of the resort is based on the amenities, services, and location of the resort. The monorail is a huge part of that - as illustrated in Disney's own pricing differences between comparable resorts. We've been down that road.

When a resort pulls back on the amenities it offers without balances elsewhere... guests will feel miff'ed and rightfully so. The question is simply is the rub significant enough to change their resort preferences. All it takes is one really bad experience for guests to exclude a property from their future preferences.. and here we have a situation where a bad situation can arise, and guests will very easily be able to blame Disney for making the situation worse.

Imagine a EMH night where it gets stormy... forcing most of the park to flee at the same time. Boats shutdown... Monorail shutdown... it will be all buses. I wouldn't want to be in the park that night

So in the long run... I doubt Disney will have an immediate impact on their bookings in large part. But they will have lots of Customer Service complaints, that may result in future bookings shifting away from the Poly and GF which will be replaced by future suckers If not, booking levels will simply be adjusted through discounts or pricing differences.

Even in this case.. disney can make lemonade from those lemons. Let's say a family changes their Poly reservation due to this.. Disney will just offer that room as a free upgrade to some other family making them happy as can be. What is a 'minor' letdown for one family, becomes the 'best thing ever' for another.. Disney wins.

 

[Zummi Gummi]

You're right on almost everything.
I prefer the Epcot resorts as well (walk to 2 parks).
I guess since EMH is already a perk, they figure they don't have to cut room rates to cover the monorail not being available.
Don't forget though, its also closing the monorail 1 hour after park close to even the resort loop. Meaning - no resort hopping without taking a boat, every night. Can be a problem for people trying to eat at the other resorts.

I'd see that as a problem only if Disney was standing on the beaches, handing guests a raft, and telling them to swim for it.

I'm the first one to complain when Disney cuts back on something, but this just doesn't seem like a battle worth fighting, not with all the other issues around the property.

 

[Kamikaze]

I'm the first one to complain when Disney cuts back on something, but this just doesn't seem like a battle worth fighting, not with all the other issues around the property.

Which is what they are going for.

 

[AMartin767]

To be clear, Disney does not list the Monorail as an amenity at those resorts. The transportation is listed seperately as a "complimentary" service. However, that in no way lessens the guest expectation for the service as part what they have payed for.

 

[Kamikaze]

To be clear, Disney does not list the Monorail as an amenity at those resorts. The transportation is listed seperately as a "complimentary" service. However, that in no way lessens the guest expectation for the service as part what they have payed for.

If you want to use that logic, Disney can announce tomorrow that the values no longer have bus transportation after 5pm, because it is complimentary and the guests haven't paid for it. Sorry, but thats not going to fly. The only reason they can get away with this is because of the other transportation options available to monorail resort guests.

 

[AMartin767]

If you want to use that logic, Disney can announce tomorrow that the values no longer have bus transportation after 5pm, because it is complimentary and the guests haven't paid for it. Sorry, but thats not going to fly. The only reason they can get away with this is because of the other transportation options available to monorail resort guests.

No argument. I am not suggesting that the transportation systems that Disney offers should or can be removed, quite the contrary. I am just stating that Disney does not list their transportation options as "amenities" for the resorts. They list them as an additional service to the resorts themselves. Please see my earlier post for a more detailed explanation on my take (page 62 of the thread).

 

[menamechris]

Imho those are opposite points...you either are paying more or you are not...

Did you happen to read the rest of my post or just stop there? You edited to make a moot point. I clearly explained further down how Disney can justify still charging the rates they do minus the EMH monorail transportation option.

As for the fireworks...any guest from any resort has the ability to stand on the Poly beach or wherever to see the fireworks....even if they are NOT Poly guests....so your point on that aspect is sorta mute for the most part.

Virtually nothing is exclusive to resort guests at any resort, with the exception of the pool and your room. Does that mean you don't pay for extensive theming throughout, because I can walk in? Or that it is not considered a perk to have a table restaurant at the resort, because I can go eat there even though I am not staying there? Resort amenities do not always mean exclusivity.

The answer is you ARE paying more for monorail access....Period.

Disney is simply taking a perk away from another perk. A perk that an incredibly small percentage of resort guests actually benefit from. How much can one complain about that?

 

[draybook]

No argument. I am not suggesting that the transportation systems that Disney offers should or can be removed, quite the contrary. I am just stating that Disney does not list their transportation options as "amenities" for the resorts. They list them as an additional service to the resorts themselves. Please see my earlier post for a more detailed explanation on my take (page 62 of the thread).

No dice bud. I tried pointing this out but they wouldn't buy it.

 

[flavious27]

First of all - I know you are new - but have you read anything I have posted on here...ever? I am HARDLY an apologist. With that said, no one can expect the resort to spend tens to hundreds of millions of dollars every 10-20 years to replace the monorail fleet. That is just not realistic....sorry

Well it would be every 20 years, and why not? Disney Parks makes much more than a whole fleet replacement every quarter.

 

[AMartin767]

I am in agreement with those who say it's timeto replace the fleet if it makes more sense than full breakdown rehabs.