News Monorail Red in motion with guests on board and doors open

[mikejs78]

Easy. Put a cupcake with a strobe light in every room at the Poly/Grand Floridian/Contemporary.

Yeah, no. They are able to charge a premium to those resorts because of monorail access to MK, just like they can to the Epcot resorts due to walking distance. Take the monorail away and those resorts become more like Wilderness Lodge in value.

 

[jbolen2]

I’m not that privy, but not from what I believe.

I don’t see why they wouldn’t try to incorporate the new resort on to the existing line. They could charge the premium for it with little extra cost to an actual expansion.

 

[Bairstow]

While that's true, I think it does mean it's less likely to cease operations than other modes of transportation. If the Monorail goes, that removes a huge perk of staying at the Poly/Grand Floridian/Contemporary - not sure how you make up that perk..

The ~$100 per night per room premium that monorail access effectively commands is probably the reason the line has survived as long as it has. As expensive as the system is, surely it's more than offset by the high prices of the resorts it services.

 

[marni1971]

I don’t see why they wouldn’t try to incorporate the new resort on to the existing line. They could charge the premium for it with little extra cost to an actual expansion.

Because it would be adjacent to the existing station?

 

[monothingie]

I don’t see why they wouldn’t try to incorporate the new resort on to the existing line. They could charge the premium for it with little extra cost to an actual expansion.

The ~$100 per night per room premium that monorail access effectively commands is probably the reason the line has survived as long as it has. As expensive as the system is, surely it's more than offset by the high prices of the resorts it services.

The monorail would best be considered a “loss leader” driving people to the monorail resorts which charge a premium for their services. Unfortunatly the resort’s success or failure has no direct impact on how the monorail system through Disney Transportation is funded, maintained or expanded. Each division within Parks and Resorts has its own independent financials as such the better each resort does doesn’t mean that profit windfall is realized in Transportation. Each resort manager is more concerned about their bottom line for their individual resort rather than the collective organization.

There is no incentive to expand the system unless there is a profit driver behind it. As you’ve seen with hotel expansion at WDW over the past two decades most has been through DVC, which also operates as an independent entity within TWDC. There is no incentive to add monorail service to a new resort along any line because the chargebacks to the individual divisions (Transportation, etc) diminish the profitability of the individual resort.

It really sound convoluted, but the bean counters at TWDC have determined that the standalone resort not connected the system will be just a profitable as the others that are. If there were a direct profit driver to have monorail resorts throughout the property it would have been done. It also has very little to do with the cost of building the monorail, because that would be considered a capital expenditure and the accounting handles that differently.

 

[monothingie]

Because it would be adjacent to the existing station?

Think of how much money would made on ECV rentals.

 

[Bairstow]

The monorail would best be considered a “loss leader” driving people to the monorail resorts which charge a premium for their services. Unfortunatly the resort’s success or failure has no direct impact on how the monorail system through Disney Transportation is funded, maintained or expanded. Each division within Parks and Resorts has its own independent financials as such the better each resort does doesn’t mean that profit windfall is realized in Transportation. Each resort manager is more concerned about their bottom line for their individual resort rather than the collective organization.

As a general rule, yes, but if this were taken to an extreme the entire resort system would cease to function as a viable body. Clearly, this has not happened yet, and the idea that Disney does not understand the fundamental relationship between the monorail line and the occupancy of the monorail resorts, and that the do not make long-term transportation budgets accordingly, is inconceivable and not supported by the company's actions.

 

[s8film40]

But even if you rounded up to 10k from your 8k number. I think we can all agree if you have 10-20k people at once... no one thinks 2hrs to churn through that is enjoyable

I would still say 10k is on the low end as the estimate I gave was partially loaded trains running very slow, somewhere between that and 15k is probably the real world number. The truth is though you have about 20k - 30k people all at once even on just a relatively slow day at the MK and yes it's a mess and takes a good full hour to get the bulk of the guests through.

Given their open car design... the gain from simultaneous loading would probably be lost in the safety overhead and switching. Plus, it gets really complicated if you are trying to stage trains for the peak demand and are having to deal with multiple trains in this bottleneck AND add in extra switching. For every train they loaded concurrently, you still need to pass an empty train through your switch to get back to concurrent loading.

The only thing simultaneous loading would accomplish is faster dispatches when lots of people are on the platform. Essentially the trains could simply move through faster taking guests in more quickly. The switching is really not so much an issue as that system is already continuously switching trains from one track to another. It would just be a difference of switching the incoming trains to whichever side of the platform is empty.

As is the train in the example I gave. It's only one of multiple transit options... but you really gotta do alot of gymnastics to get the monorails, even LV shuttle layout, to take a sizable portion.

The MK monorail works great for continuous access... not so great for peak demand. Even the President of LV's monorail cites a 3k per hour number as a base... https://www.reviewjournal.com/busin...t-mass-transit-for-las-vegas-raiders-stadium/ - and estimates for the expansion to Mandalay Bay are >100million for the monorail. So we're back to the multiple hours to churn through >10k people.

Ultimately their situation I'm sure will be answered by 'who pays for it'. LV Monorail can do the design work and then wave the project in front of the most desperate person... the city trying to fight conjestion, or the team owners who are desperate to combat their parking commitments

Yeah the whole park and ride operation at the MK at this point is stupid and doesn't make good use of the monorail system. Monorails should be an added convenience not a barrier to entering and exiting the park. In the case of LV it would indeed be an added convenience transporting guests to and from the hotels, while those that drive I'm sure will simply park directly in the parking lot.

 

[MisterPenguin]

as an FYI Monorails are considered "transportation " at WDW.

Indeed. For all the questions about "who's going to pay for the monorail?" Here is a better one: If there were no monorail, who's going to pay for all the transportation from those resorts to the MK or Epcot? And who's going to pay for all the transportation from the TTC parking lot to MK? If there were no monorail, they'd have to be a heck of a lot more buses and ferries to pour money into.

 

[MotherOfBirds]

If there were no monorail, they'd have to be a heck of a lot more buses and ferries to pour money into.

And I'd rather stick something sharp in my ear than ride either, given my more recent experiences. It would require a major change in the transportation system in the swamps and the addition of a couple gondolas are not going to cut it

 

[Thelazer]

Having been on a Monorail tonight that had it's door pop up several times, before a cast member had to come over and SLAM it shut before leaving the station.. and seeing that occur both when we were arriving to MK, AND on the return trip on a differnt monorail... not to mention the horrible amount of "slooowww" creeping the trains do at the station now (and at one point, appeared to have to be over riden by the cast member since it didn't "hit the mark" at the poly on the first try)

Well all I can say is.... the fery boat is looking more and more like best way to get to the MK these days.

 

[Driver]

Even the ferries go down! Pretty sure it was one day last week, can't remember which night but the ferry and monorail were down at the same time. Albeit short but it was busses to the rescue!!

 

[Driver]

Having been on a Monorail tonight that had it's door pop up several times, before a cast member had to come over and SLAM it shut before leaving the station.. and seeing that occur both when we were arriving to MK, AND on the return trip on a differnt monorail... not to mention the horrible amount of "slooowww" creeping the trains do at the station now (and at one point, appeared to have to be over riden by the cast member since it didn't "hit the mark" at the poly on the first try)

Well all I can say is.... the fery boat is looking more and more like best way to get to the MK these days.

If your dressed for it! It's pretty chilly out there right now with the wind in your face and no place for cover.

 

[jbolen2]

The monorail would best be considered a “loss leader” driving people to the monorail resorts which charge a premium for their services. Unfortunatly the resort’s success or failure has no direct impact on how the monorail system through Disney Transportation is funded, maintained or expanded. Each division within Parks and Resorts has its own independent financials as such the better each resort does doesn’t mean that profit windfall is realized in Transportation. Each resort manager is more concerned about their bottom line for their individual resort rather than the collective organization.

There is no incentive to expand the system unless there is a profit driver behind it. As you’ve seen with hotel expansion at WDW over the past two decades most has been through DVC, which also operates as an independent entity within TWDC. There is no incentive to add monorail service to a new resort along any line because the chargebacks to the individual divisions (Transportation, etc) diminish the profitability of the individual resort.

It really sound convoluted, but the bean counters at TWDC have determined that the standalone resort not connected the system will be just a profitable as the others that are. If there were a direct profit driver to have monorail resorts throughout the property it would have been done. It also has very little to do with the cost of building the monorail, because that would be considered a capital expenditure and the accounting handles that differently.

Because it would be adjacent to the existing station?

What I was thinking was that with the modern cheap and easy Disney that we experience. I could see them calling this a monorail resort even if it was connected by a short pathway to the Epcot station. They could also cut out a bus route to magic kingdom from that resort too.

 

[larryz]

Easy. Put a cupcake with a strobe light in every room at the Poly/Grand Floridian/Contemporary.

Or, permanently park one monorail at each monorail resort, and set up strobe lights around them to make them look like they're moving.

 

[WDWTrojan]

Indeed. For all the questions about "who's going to pay for the monorail?" Here is a better one: If there were no monorail, who's going to pay for all the transportation from those resorts to the MK or Epcot? And who's going to pay for all the transportation from the TTC parking lot to MK? If there were no monorail, they'd have to be a heck of a lot more buses and ferries to pour money into.

This. TDO has been kicking the proverbial monorail "can" down the line for so long that they're finally at a point where it must be dealt with, when it would have been easier/cheaper to deal with fifteen years ago. The question is how best to resolve this situation that won't break the bank but will also maintain the iconic system.

 

[Amused to Death]

Disney ... never comes anywhere close to stuffing the cabins near capacity...

Having been on a Monorail tonight that had it's door pop up several times ... all I can say is.... the fery boat is looking more and more like best way to get to the MK these days.

I was on the Epcot line tonight, leaving well before close (approx. 7:00 pm), and my cabin was so darn packed to the gills that we could have made a run at a Guinness World Record, and we didn't even have any drunken frat boys on hand to help us out. All I've got to say is thank goodness we didn't have a door pop open on our cabin!

About whether they ever decide to shut down the monorail system...

I can't say that I really care. It was super cool in the '70s-'80s, but there are far more innovative modes of transportation these days. I've been in overcrowded trains on way too many occasions, and I've never been a fan of the funky mildew + kitty litter + wet bandaid smell in the cabins.

I use the Poly and GF boats to the MK whenever I can help it. They're much more enjoyable. And while I see everyone b*tching and moaning about the "non-magical" gondolas that are on their way, count me in the minority, but I'd rather hop into one of the little gondolas than get squeezed into another monorail train.

"It's iconic!!"

Remember, being iconic doesn't necessarily mean that they'll never be removed, they can simply be shut down and be looked at like a pretty museum piece.

This post in no way implies they'll be doing that, but, just wanted to get it out there that something's iconic-ness is not a guarantee it will be kept running.

I wish I still had a copy of the book, I don't even remember the title, but I had a college anthropology textbook back in '79-'80 in which the author(s) devoted an entire chapter as to why they felt people loved to take "religious pilgrimages" to Disney World. I remember several paragraphs devoted to Cinderella Castle and the monorail trains being "phallic symbols" and the trains simultaneously being "womb-like." Maybe that's why they're so "iconic."

 

[WDWTrojan]

I was on the Epcot line tonight, leaving well before close (approx. 7:00 pm), and my cabin was so darn packed to the gills that we could have made a run at a Guinness World Record, and we didn't even have any drunken frat boys on hand to help us out. All I've got to say is thank goodness we didn't have a door pop open on our cabin!

About whether they ever decide to shut down the monorail system...

I can't say that I really care. It was super cool in the '70s-'80s, but there are far more innovative modes of transportation these days. I've been in overcrowded trains on way too many occasions, and I've never been a fan of the funky mildew + kitty litter + wet bandaid smell in the cabins.

You'll find some people on here who deny there's a smell. It's awful. I'm not sure when this smell became as prevalent as it is now, as it didn't used to be so bad. Sometime in the mid-00s, I think. Obviously it never smelled completely fresh, thanks to the throngs of gross sweaty people riding it - but the cabins themselves didn't smell like a mildewed dish rag back then.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Not as iconic. But Spaceship Earth/Cinderella Castle, for example, are things I think they'd never demolish. Change, maybe. But not demolish.

My thought is: It depends.

If they found a huge sinkhole under SSE like they did under Horizons (keeping in mind that this is incredibly unlikely as each of the three bases have a ton of pylons/ foundation, from what I understand), I could see them saying, "We have to tear that down and we're not building it again." The costs would just be too high. (a sphere with a ride inside)

I could see them replacing it with some "iconic" item from some recently popular movie. Had it happened, say, 3 years back, we'd have the Frozen castle at Epcot.

The MK Castle? They'd just rebuild it. There's not a lot there. It's a frame with a few rooms (one being a fairly "meh" dining room) and a lot of fiberglass on the outside. It's mostly a set piece.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Indeed. For all the questions about "who's going to pay for the monorail?" Here is a better one: If there were no monorail, who's going to pay for all the transportation from those resorts to the MK or Epcot? And who's going to pay for all the transportation from the TTC parking lot to MK? If there were no monorail, they'd have to be a heck of a lot more buses and ferries to pour money into.

I could see them flanking both sides of the MK with parking garages. Just to the North of the Bay Lake Tower on one side and the Floridian on the other. You could make a strong argument for this as they could shutdown both the Monorail and the ferry and then just run trams, like they're already doing, up to the front or setup shops along the way and just have people walk it.