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News Monorail Red in motion with guests on board and doors open

peter11435

Well-Known Member
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They adjusted those doorways before when they went from the IV to the VI, I am sure they could do it again. Remember, most things like this are fixable, it's just a matter of how much money they want to put into it.
They did adjust the doorways then. But any further enlarging would require large scale structural changes to the contemporary and likely the removal of an entire floor of rooms. Also there are other obstacles besides just the station clearances.

https://goo.gl/images/BxRsM3
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
Fair enough... I forgot about that. That said, they could still achieve more capacity without stretching the trains. I bet new ones could be built to do away with the need for such high bogies between the trains. That in and of itself would increase capacity by at least 30%. The fact is, I now agree with you, they would have to custom build trains to map to the current track. With new trains, comes more efficiencies, more reliability, probably much more cost savings. I bet if they changed the trains 10 years ago with some of the improvements I stated above, they would have made up the cost by now.
 

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
I bet that they see "cost savings" differently than you.

I have a nearly 10yo Honda Civic. You could make the argument that I could trade it in for a more efficient car and I'd have "cost savings". The problem is that my current Civic is "free" and has been for some time and that more efficient car is $25K to drive off the lot. How many years will it take for me to make up that $25K in the new efficiencies? That's the question.

Add to it that I've kept my Civic in good repair so it still looks good and drives well. When something broke, I fixed it. This is a different tactic than WDW has taken toward the trains. They fix things when they absolutely have to. It's a different cost savings technique. If the train absolutely won't run they'll put someone on it. If it still rolls downhill then it's probably good for the day.

Still, from their point of view, the trains that they have now are "free" and low maintenance because they only do what is absolutely necessary. New trains are very expensive in comparison and don't look good on the spreadsheet (no cost-cutting bonuses).

The reality is this: If WDW wanted to keep the trains clean and in good working order then they would have done so. If they wanted to replace the trains then they would have done so. That costs more money than what they're doing now. It's all about the spreadsheet. They'll ride these things until they have to push them down the beams and only then will they consider replacements or, what I think is more likely, just shutting the system down or, if we're lucky, scaling it back - which also looks good on that spreadsheet.
 

HauntedPirate

Premium Member
I bet that they see "cost savings" differently than you.

I have a nearly 10yo Honda Civic. You could make the argument that I could trade it in for a more efficient car and I'd have "cost savings". The problem is that my current Civic is "free" and has been for some time and that more efficient car is $25K to drive off the lot. How many years will it take for me to make up that $25K in the new efficiencies? That's the question.

Add to it that I've kept my Civic in good repair so it still looks good and drives well. When something broke, I fixed it. This is a different tactic than WDW has taken toward the trains. They fix things when they absolutely have to. It's a different cost savings technique. If the train absolutely won't run they'll put someone on it. If it still rolls downhill then it's probably good for the day.

Still, from their point of view, the trains that they have now are "free" and low maintenance because they only do what is absolutely necessary. New trains are very expensive in comparison and don't look good on the spreadsheet (no cost-cutting bonuses).

The reality is this: If WDW wanted to keep the trains clean and in good working order then they would have done so. If they wanted to replace the trains then they would have done so. That costs more money than what they're doing now. It's all about the spreadsheet. They'll ride these things until they have to push them down the beams and only then will they consider replacements or, what I think is more likely, just shutting the system down or, if we're lucky, scaling it back - which also looks good on that spreadsheet.
No, no, "cost-cutting" is such an ancient term, and has negative PR associated with it, because TWDC, and P&R in particular, is making money hand over fist. "Cost containment" is the new mantra. All the cool managers and executives at Disney are using it these days. Get with the times, man! :hilarious:

Can't argue with anything in your post. Why buy new, when 30 years old will do?
 

Driver

Well-Known Member
It was the material used. They used localized material in Florida which amounted to lime which will erode away with water. You can see more patchwork on the Epcot line, if you're riding up front which you can no longer do, and possibly feel it compared with the Express and Resort lines.
They were working on the beam after hours last week for a few nights in a row. Where it goes through the small CM parking area just to the right of the Poly entrance.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Whatever they go with, it'd be nice for the monorail and platform to be level with each other. Yes, they would have to modify the platforms though (probably widen them slightly?).
Yes! How much time is collectively wasted each day when a CM has to walk over to one or more groups where a guest is in an ECV or wheelchair with the metal ramp.

Same goes for the busses and the super inefficient “kneeling” process.
 

LukeS7

Well-Known Member
It'll never happen, but I wish WDW would partner with Tesla to overhaul its transportation system. Automated/overhauled monorail, possibly even automated buses that would have sensors that enable them to stop at the same point at the stations (which would make level loading platforms for wheelchairs/ECV's possible), possibly even automated "Minnie Vans". Ahhhh, the Disney in my imagination is so much better sometimes :D
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
It'll never happen, but I wish WDW would partner with Tesla to overhaul it's transportation system. Automated monorail, possibly even automated buses that would have sensors that enable them to stop at the same point at the stations (which would make level loading platforms for wheelchairs/ECV's possible), an overhauled monorail, possibly even automated "Minnie Vans". Ahhhh, the Disney in my imagination is so much better sometimes :D
Well, they don't need Tesla for automated monorails. There's several systems around the world that have automated train systems. Automated road vehicles would be nice once the tech is matured in ~20 years.
Yes! How much time is collectively wasted each day when a CM has to walk over to one or more groups where a guest is in an ECV or wheelchair with the metal ramp.

Same goes for the busses and the super inefficient “kneeling” process.
Sadly the only way to get rid of that is build BRT type stations like several foreign countries have. I can't think of the name but there's one that stands out above the rest.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
It'll never happen, but I wish WDW would partner with Tesla to overhaul its transportation system. Automated/overhauled monorail, possibly even automated buses that would have sensors that enable them to stop at the same point at the stations (which would make level loading platforms for wheelchairs/ECV's possible), possibly even automated "Minnie Vans". Ahhhh, the Disney in my imagination is so much better sometimes :D
Unfortunately, Elon Musk thinks public transportation is gross.

Though the rumors weren’t true, Siemens would have been a good partner for a monorail rehab/expansion project.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Fair enough... I forgot about that. That said, they could still achieve more capacity without stretching the trains. I bet new ones could be built to do away with the need for such high bogies between the trains. That in and of itself would increase capacity by at least 30%. The fact is, I now agree with you, they would have to custom build trains to map to the current track. With new trains, comes more efficiencies, more reliability, probably much more cost savings. I bet if they changed the trains 10 years ago with some of the improvements I stated above, they would have made up the cost by now.
The 300s already have a new, unique bogie design. You’re no longer proposing using the 300s but designing an entirely new train system.
 

rmwebs

Active Member
Unfortunately, Elon Musk thinks public transportationis gross.
Its a bit of a missquote there. Think of the two options you have on the table, as a complete bluesky option.

Option 1. One big vehicle that carries loads of people, you sit next to some random person you dont know.

Option 2. A much smaller, but personal vehicle (Which can still be operated automatically or by someone else), with your own desired interior.

Option 1 is the boring mass transit we have now. Option 2 is what Elon Musk wants, and he's 100% spot on with it. I mean, nobody likes sharing a monorail car with a sweaty bloke who stinks after a day at the parks, standing next to his wife nagging at him that he's in peoples way (genuinely happened).

If money was no object the monorail would be replaced with some sort of plussed version of the people mover, with personal ride cars which would essentially be the size of one side of a monorail carriage. When you get in you just pick a destination, sit back and watch TV, browse the web, etc with your family.

EDIT: This all being said, people seem to forget what Disney were once capable of. The entire MK IV was designed in-house. Go back not to long ago and most of their systems were in-house, its only in the last 20 or so years they've seemingly lost the ability to make anything other than an audio-animatronic. The company collectively needs to grow a pair and go back to taking risks on big new ideas instead of outsourcing it to the highest sponsor.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Its a bit of a missquote there. Think of the two options you have on the table, as a complete bluesky option.

Option 1. One big vehicle that carries loads of people, you sit next to some random person you dont know.

Option 2. A much smaller, but personal vehicle (Which can still be operated automatically or by someone else), with your own desired interior.

Option 1 is the boring mass transit we have now. Option 2 is what Elon Musk wants, and he's 100% spot on with it. I mean, nobody likes sharing a monorail car with a sweaty bloke who stinks after a day at the parks, standing next to his wife nagging at him that he's in peoples way (genuinely happened).

If money was no object the monorail would be replaced with some sort of plussed version of the people mover, with personal ride cars which would essentially be the size of one side of a monorail carriage. When you get in you just pick a destination, sit back and watch TV, browse the web, etc with your family.

EDIT: This all being said, people seem to forget what Disney were once capable of. The entire MK IV was designed in-house. Go back not to long ago and most of their systems were in-house, its only in the last 20 or so years they've seemingly lost the ability to make anything other than an audio-animatronic. The company collectively needs to grow a pair and go back to taking risks on big new ideas instead of outsourcing it to the highest sponsor.
Disney has always worked with outside companies during some aspects of many of their projects. This process as well as sponsorship dates back to 1955.

The original Disneyland monorails, the original WDW fleet, and the current WDW Mark VI trains all had involvement from outside companies.
 

halltd

Well-Known Member
Whatever they go with, it'd be nice for the monorail and platform to be level with each other. Yes, they would have to modify the platforms though (probably widen them slightly?).
The new Brightline trains (which are beautiful, comfortable, and the first fully ADA accessible trains in the US) use this cool automated gap filler. Small ramps/gap fillers could deploy on the monorails, too at every door. I would hope the floor of the train could be lowered slightly if there was a new design. If combined with automatic gates at every station, the efficiency would soar.

 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
EDIT: This all being said, people seem to forget what Disney were once capable of. The entire MK IV was designed in-house. Go back not to long ago and most of their systems were in-house, its only in the last 20 or so years they've seemingly lost the ability to make anything other than an audio-animatronic. The company collectively needs to grow a pair and go back to taking risks on big new ideas instead of outsourcing it to the highest sponsor.
ALWEG provided Disney with the technical information behind their prototype so they could fabricate the Mark I Monorail. The Mark IVs were manufactured for Disney by Martin Marietta.

The new Brightline trains (which are beautiful, comfortable, and the first fully ADA accessible trains in the US) use this cool automated gap filler. Small ramps/gap fillers could deploy on the monorails, too at every door. I would hope the floor of the train could be lowered slightly if there was a new design. If combined with automatic gates at every station, the efficiency would soar.

Bombardier had already developed level loading for the Mark VI monorail.
 

montyz81

Well-Known Member
The 300s already have a new, unique bogie design. You’re no longer proposing using the 300s but designing an entirely new train system.
I think they would kind of have to because of all the low tolerances through the Contemporary. I am not sure the beam is the same too.
 
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