Monorail expansion

Timon

Well-Known Member
According to the Monorail Society web site - The Bombardier Innovia 300 is bigger than the Las Vegas/WDW trains which are now sold as Innovia 200's. The 300's are wider and longer and you can walk car to car. 89 people per car vs WDW 60 per car vs DL 22 per car! Train to train coupling. One unique feature because they are automated, there is no front or rear driver cab, it's just open to the main cabin. Boy, I know where I'm sitting when I visit San Paulo! One thing I can't find out is the beam a different size? TDL 31.5", LVM/WDW 26", DL 20" If it's not different, with some really big jack hammers and TNT they could possibly run on the WDW track - just dreaming.
 

captainkidd

Well-Known Member
Really? I hope you talking about a large Monorail project because here are photos of the Epcot Spur construction taken by WDWSteamDreamer. These show the foundations for the beam and probably some sort of catwalk to board the tractor.

picture.php


picture.php

I'm a bit confused. What is this for? Looks like routine type of maintenance work.

Monorail expansion - Not going to happen. Ever.
 

Timon

Well-Known Member
WDW is adding a small 60' spur to the existing Epcot line switch to house a Monorail service tractor closer to the Epcot line to provide faster towing service which would dramatically cut the "down time" for the Epcot line when a train fails. Currently the tractors come from the Monorail Shop behind the MK and take forever to get there. FYI there are 3 tractors.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
I'm a bit confused. What is this for? Looks like routine type of maintenance work.

Monorail expansion - Not going to happen. Ever.

That theory just flew right out the window.


While not a full fledged customer expansion...it IS an expansion of the current beam system. New footing are being poured and new beams will be cast.
 

ABigBrassBand

Well-Known Member
That theory just flew right out the window.


While not a full fledged customer expansion...it IS an expansion of the current beam system. New footing are being poured and new beams will be cast.
...although I wish they would build a monorail going around the resort.

*dreams*
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
...although I wish they would build a monorail going around the resort.

*dreams*

I wish that they could also expand, but it will be too huge of a cost. Also they would need to replan and redo how the transportation system is in the wdw. There will need to be a second TTL center near epcot to connect spurs through out the park. If Disney was able to produce the monorails at a cost of $5 - $10 million per mile, there would be more spurs.
 

Monorail Lime

Well-Known Member
FYI: It appears Disney has broken ground this week on the Epcot Spur for the service tractor. The site is on the Epcot Line switch adjacent to World Dr. When I drove by (Wednesday) it looks like a whole lot of digging for relocating any utilities. No hole big enough for foundations or pile drivers yet.

They are digging where the yellow line is:
picture.php

I wonder if the tractor will be able to roll onto the Epcot line with the switch aligned for the spurs; or if the switch will first have to make a move with the tractor on it.
 

Tom

Beta Return
I wonder if the tractor will be able to roll onto the Epcot line with the switch aligned for the spurs; or if the switch will first have to make a move with the tractor on it.

Currently both piece of switch track move when they throw the switch to the spur line. In the new scenario, they will still use the 2 pieces of moving track, but when the switch is thrown into "spur" mode, the west piece will be aligned with the new maintenance beam.

The tractor will drive onto the Epcot line from its beam and can head right to TTC. If it needs to go immediately back to Epcot, it will either need to loop through TTC and head to Epcot the long way, or stop and wait for the switch to throw back, and head to Epcot through the switch.
 

Rob562

Well-Known Member
Currently both piece of switch track move when they throw the switch to the spur line. In the new scenario, they will still use the 2 pieces of moving track, but when the switch is thrown into "spur" mode, the west piece will be aligned with the new maintenance beam.

The tractor will drive onto the Epcot line from its beam and can head right to TTC. If it needs to go immediately back to Epcot, it will either need to loop through TTC and head to Epcot the long way, or stop and wait for the switch to throw back, and head to Epcot through the switch.

I would've thought that they would have built the tractor beam to the *east* of the switch, so that the tractor beam lines up with the spur when the switch is in the "normal" position as seen in the aerial photo. That way it can pull onto the spur beam and around to the Express beam with no movement of the Epcot switch at all, and to get onto the Epcot beam and on its way only requires a single movement of the switch (drive out onto Spur, move switch, drive onto Epcot).

-Rob
 

Monorail Lime

Well-Known Member
Currently both piece of switch track move when they throw the switch to the spur line. In the new scenario, they will still use the 2 pieces of moving track, but when the switch is thrown into "spur" mode, the west piece will be aligned with the new maintenance beam.
Yeah I get that. My concern is the joint connecting the west switch piece to the Epcot main line was not designed for vehicles to pass over it in its unaligned state. It will be a rough ride even for a work tractor.
 

Tom

Beta Return
Yeah I get that. My concern is the joint connecting the west switch piece to the Epcot main line was not designed for vehicles to pass over it in its unaligned state. It will be a rough ride even for a work tractor.

Ah yes. Well, perhaps the maintenance spur will be going on the EAST side of that main line. Hopefully the east switch-leg kicks far enough over to catch a beam in it's idle state, so that a tractor can just drive out at any time.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
I think with the right approach an expansion to the monorail system could really help the flow of transportation through the resort, even areas not served by monorail and without needing to be a large expansion.

As it stands now there is a whole lot of overkill in the Disney transportation system. They essentially operate 5 hubs for buses with each hub offering service to each hotel. That's about 20 routes from each hub making a total of about 100 routes. Meanwhile monorails and watercraft focus their attention on transporting just as many people as the buses do in the worlds largest park and ride operation.

The first thing that could be done to enhance the transportation would be to remove the park and ride system so that the monorails could actually be used for a real purpose and help to move people through the resort. A parking garage could be built to the west of the MK just to the west of the canal housing the Electric Water Pageant, the trees in the area could easily hide the garage from view. Trams could run along the walk around the world to bring guest to the front entrance.

With the TTC no longer needed the Express and Epcot line could be combined to form one line connecting MK to EPCOT. This line could then be extended to Studios and then to DAK. There would then be one monorail line connecting all parks and traveling in two directions. Meaning no park would ever be more than three stops away on the monorail from any other park.

With travel to and from the parks now being very easy, the bus system could be split up into zones. Each theme park could run transportation to the nearby hotels. So for example if your at DAK and want to go to Polynesian you would ride the monorail to MK and transfer to the resort monorail. If you were at MK and wanted to go to Coronado Springs you could ride the monorail to DAK and then get the bus to Coronado. Shorter bus routes and a use of less buses would enable the wait times and travel times for buses to be greatly reduced.

All in all the expansion would only be about as expansive as the original EPCOT expansion was. While it would be great to have monorails going all over the place it isn't completely necessary this small addition would make a huge impact.

Additionally another separate line could connect at EPCOT and then go to DTD.
 

parkgoer

Member
The first thing that could be done to enhance the transportation would be to remove the park and ride system so that the monorails could actually be used for a real purpose and help to move people through the resort. A parking garage could be built to the west of the MK just to the west of the canal housing the Electric Water Pageant, the trees in the area could easily hide the garage from view. Trams could run along the walk around the world to bring guest to the front entrance.

I agree with what you said, but i have to disagree about this part. It is my understanding on of the main reasons of having to park so far away from mk is so that it really feels like you are going to a land of magic. whereas parking your car and walking right up to the turn styles would "ruin" that effect.

I do agree that's very inefficient tho, and I think most people would agree they don't want to deal with that at the end of the night. people just want to go home.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
I agree with what you said, but i have to disagree about this part. It is my understanding on of the main reasons of having to park so far away from mk is so that it really feels like you are going to a land of magic. whereas parking your car and walking right up to the turn styles would "ruin" that effect.

I do agree that's very inefficient tho, and I think most people would agree they don't want to deal with that at the end of the night. people just want to go home.

The only difference would be that that feeling of magic of being transported to the park would be shifted from the day guests who park to the resort guests who arrive from resorts by monorail. Also hiding the parking garage behind the trees you wouldn't lose the look of the park on the lake.

Essentially if you are a resort guest now you arrive by bus just as you would if you parked, it's not so magical.
 

parkgoer

Member
The only difference would be that that feeling of magic of being transported to the park would be shifted from the day guests who park to the resort guests who arrive from resorts by monorail. Also hiding the parking garage behind the trees you wouldn't lose the look of the park on the lake.

Essentially if you are a resort guest now you arrive by bus just as you would if you parked, it's not so magical.


true, i forget about the resort guests coming by bus. If your idea makes it more of a mode of transportation rather than novelty, i'm all for it.
 

TimeTrip

Well-Known Member
With the TTC no longer needed the Express and Epcot line could be combined to form one line connecting MK to EPCOT. This line could then be extended to Studios and then to DAK. There would then be one monorail line connecting all parks and traveling in two directions. Meaning no park would ever be more than three stops away on the monorail from any other park.
That would be an incredible cost for solely servicing park to park transportation needs. Hmm, but then you mention this...

With travel to and from the parks now being very easy, the bus system could be split up into zones. Each theme park could run transportation to the nearby hotels. So for example if your at DAK and want to go to Polynesian you would ride the monorail to MK and transfer to the resort monorail. If you were at MK and wanted to go to Coronado Springs you could ride the monorail to DAK and then get the bus to Coronado. Shorter bus routes and a use of less buses would enable the wait times and travel times for buses to be greatly reduced.
One point that's been rehashed over and over is that people don't like transfers. You've automatically added at least one. Two if you want to get from your hotel to MK, since the MK station wouldn't be near the gates in your proposal. Also, Coronado springs, All Star Resorts are a terrible distance from DAK in the complete opposite direction from all the other parks. Add in the wrong travel direction, and transfer times, and travel time to the actual park starts looking really bad.

You should really sketch out a layout and try figuring out how to make that line efficient. There have been some pretty good ones posted in the past, but most can't get past the fact that WDW just wasn't layed out in a way that could make it work.

All in all the expansion would only be about as expansive as the original EPCOT expansion was. While it would be great to have monorails going all over the place it isn't completely necessary this small addition would make a huge impact.
Not really, you need several more stations, quite a LONG run out to AK, and a LOT more trains to get the amount of service probably required.


Additionally another separate line could connect at EPCOT and then go to DTD.

And you've just added another transfer point.... Busses rule the day.
 

Tom

Beta Return
I think with the right approach an expansion to the monorail system could really help the flow of transportation through the resort, even areas not served by monorail and without needing to be a large expansion.

As it stands now there is a whole lot of overkill in the Disney transportation system. They essentially operate 5 hubs for buses with each hub offering service to each hotel. That's about 20 routes from each hub making a total of about 100 routes. Meanwhile monorails and watercraft focus their attention on transporting just as many people as the buses do in the worlds largest park and ride operation.

The first thing that could be done to enhance the transportation would be to remove the park and ride system so that the monorails could actually be used for a real purpose and help to move people through the resort. A parking garage could be built to the west of the MK just to the west of the canal housing the Electric Water Pageant, the trees in the area could easily hide the garage from view. Trams could run along the walk around the world to bring guest to the front entrance.

With the TTC no longer needed the Express and Epcot line could be combined to form one line connecting MK to EPCOT. This line could then be extended to Studios and then to DAK. There would then be one monorail line connecting all parks and traveling in two directions. Meaning no park would ever be more than three stops away on the monorail from any other park.

With travel to and from the parks now being very easy, the bus system could be split up into zones. Each theme park could run transportation to the nearby hotels. So for example if your at DAK and want to go to Polynesian you would ride the monorail to MK and transfer to the resort monorail. If you were at MK and wanted to go to Coronado Springs you could ride the monorail to DAK and then get the bus to Coronado. Shorter bus routes and a use of less buses would enable the wait times and travel times for buses to be greatly reduced.

All in all the expansion would only be about as expansive as the original EPCOT expansion was. While it would be great to have monorails going all over the place it isn't completely necessary this small addition would make a huge impact.

Additionally another separate line could connect at EPCOT and then go to DTD.

I'm a fan of [this concept, overall], [except] for a few [key] things.

First, Hub-and-Spoke systems have proven themselves to be more efficient than Ring systems across the board, and that would come into play here.

You won't find a computer network setup in a "Token Ring" these days, except for redundant fiber infrastructure. Likewise, most subway systems are set up in a configuration similar to hub-and-spoke, since branch lines head into and out of a few central stations in the city.

With a ring, all traffic must pass through all nodes to get anywhere. WDW's current monorail system is a hybrid of both. If you board the Resort Loop to get from TTC to MK, you're going to stop at each resort, which is inefficient (hence the reason for the Express train). To go from MK to EC, you transfer at the "hub" (the TTC).

To expand the monorail AND make it an efficient method of transportation, you'd have to run branch lines from TTC to AK and DHS independently, otherwise you'd board at the MK and have to ride through EC and DHS to get to AK. You would probably end up spending more time on the train than you would waiting for a bus at MK and riding directly to AK.

I love the monorail, but WDW's just isn't set up for this type of adaptation. Their current method of switching isn't conducive to the type of train system they need, which would be one where trains could jump to another mainline or pull off at a station via a bypass. WDW's switches take 2 minutes to move, and they require the beams to lose power. So that pretty much limits the system to being one giant loop (south of TTC), or redundant branch lines from TTC to each new park.

If they would add buses, monitor queues at every stop, return DTD to a "hub" status (and just monitor guests to make sure they're not parking there to avoid paying to park), and finally utilize the GPS Dispatch system the way it was meant to be used, their transportation system might become something worth bragging about.

I DO like the idea of a parking garage behind Pirates. It could easily be masked, and what wasn't masked could be themed. Heck, charge extra to park there - so you pay a few bucks for close/covered parking in exchange for losing the magic of the morning arrival "show" across the lagoon.
 

Tom

Beta Return
Did you mean to say that you're not a fan? I got confused when reading that statement in the context of the rest of your post :)

:lol: Yeah, that first sentence made sense when I started typing it, but then it became a failure. I've edited - see above.

I'm a fan of the concept, but there are some major reasons why it won't, and shouldn't, become a reality.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom