Monorail expansion

[BalooChicago]

It would be interesting if Disney were to set up manufacturing for monorail beams in China for the Shanghai park.... And ship them to the US. I'm sure the foundations are a big part of the expense, but wonder if there could be some scale and savings to doing that.

 

[flavious27]

Well if your just going to parks from your hotel yes it's pretty straight forward, but the bus system is so strained that wait times can be pretty bad and many bus routes make quite a few stops. In this case I would much rather take a very short bus ride to the closest park and then take a quick monorail ride to whatever park I wanted to go to. The biggest issue with the bus system is hotel to hotel, and yes a lot of people do travel between hotels. Dining at hotel restaurants is very popular just try to make a reservation and you will see this.





This is a little outdated, but gives you an idea. The monorail system capacity is around 200,000 per day the current average bus ridership is around 160,000. The current monorail system is easily capable of handling the full average ridership of buses.

Disney currently has 72 monorail cars, I would say that if they expanded the system to somewhere around 100 to 150 cars they could easily increase the capacity to somewhere around 300,000 to 400,000.

Even with almost double the amount of trains, the bus ridership will not drop to zero; nor would it add 50,000 - 100,000 in daily ridership overall. Unless the bus system is changed from being park centric, to being ttc centric.

 

[s8film40]

Even with almost double the amount of trains, the bus ridership will not drop to zero; nor would it add 50,000 - 100,000 in daily ridership overall. Unless the bus system is changed from being park centric, to being ttc centric.

I think the buses need to be used for short distances and monorails for longer trips. The TTC just needs to go away altogether it serves no real purpose.

 

[unkadug]

I think the buses need to be used for short distances and monorails for longer trips. The TTC just needs to go away altogether it serves no real purpose.

Except to make the MK seem a little more mysterious and far away.

 

[flavious27]

It would be interesting if Disney were to set up manufacturing for monorail beams in China for the Shanghai park.... And ship them to the US. I'm sure the foundations are a big part of the expense, but wonder if there could be some scale and savings to doing that.

The beams were manufactured and shipped from washington state before.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Thank you! So nice to know I'm not the only one who knows Walt Disney was envisioning a dramatically different Disney World on his deathbed in late '66 compared to the actual thing that got built five years later.

The EPCOT '66 film is still available on YouTube, but it can be a bit depressing to watch for hardcore Disney World fans. Especially that part where Walt points to the "amusement theme park" that is literally a cut-and-paste version of Disneyland circa 1966.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U140BeMOo1s

In my mind, Disney World is a totally different, never built project that was replaced by Walt Disney World.

 

[flavious27]

I think the buses need to be used for short distances and monorails for longer trips. The TTC just needs to go away altogether it serves no real purpose.

It is the hub of the transportation for MK for those driving to the park along with connecting the mk and the seven seas resorts to epcot. Monorails can handle more guests and are faster than buses, so they are better for long hauls. But they can not have monorail lines passing by the hotels without placing stations between the parks and or TTC, guests will not be satisfied and it would be non-efficient.

 

[flavious27]

In my mind, Disney World is a totally different, never built project that was replaced by Walt Disney World.

It is, but progress city wold not have worked in the late 60's in central florida. It could kind of work today but it would be different than the hub he was dreaming of. I think that DTD could be turned into a better town center by designing into how reston town center was planned and implemented.

 

[Tom]

It would be interesting if Disney were to set up manufacturing for monorail beams in China for the Shanghai park.... And ship them to the US. I'm sure the foundations are a big part of the expense, but wonder if there could be some scale and savings to doing that.

The cost of shipping all those beams overseas would offset any savings they'd realize from economies-of-scale.

The beams were manufactured and shipped from washington state before.

Because there was a facility suited for manufacturing them, making outsourcing a more economical way to do it. When they built the first part of the Vegas monorail (back in the early 2000s), they took over a huge area of desert - literally - and set up a mammoth operation for casting the beams (which were replicas of WDW's beams since they used WDW's old trains in Phase 1). It was very costly, and quite an undertaking.

I think the buses need to be used for short distances and monorails for longer trips. The TTC just needs to go away altogether it serves no real purpose.

I disagree. It is still exactly what it's title proclaims - it's a center of transportation and tickets. It may not be the sole source for these services any longer, but it's still necessary (and will be unless they implement some sort of massive change like the ones being proposed in this thread).

 

[s8film40]

The cost of shipping all those beams overseas would offset any savings they'd realize from economies-of-scale.



Because there was a facility suited for manufacturing them, making outsourcing a more economical way to do it. When they built the first part of the Vegas monorail (back in the early 2000s), they took over a huge area of desert - literally - and set up a mammoth operation for casting the beams (which were replicas of WDW's beams since they used WDW's old trains in Phase 1). It was very costly, and quite an undertaking.



I disagree. It is still exactly what it's title proclaims - it's a center of transportation and tickets. It may not be the sole source for these services any longer, but it's still necessary (and will be unless they implement some sort of massive change like the ones being proposed in this thread).

The only reason the TTC exists is to facilitate the park and ride operation. If you remove the park and ride from the equation there is no use for it. Tickets can of course be sold at the entrance and it is no way a transportation hub it's really just an extension of the MK front entrance.

 

[flavious27]

The only reason the TTC exists is to facilitate the park and ride operation. If you remove the park and ride from the equation there is no use for it. Tickets can of course be sold at the entrance and it is no way a transportation hub it's really just an extension of the MK front entrance.

So if there is no ttc, the epcot line and express lines would just be one stop rides. There would not be a location for people to park along with buses bringing large groups to the parks. the ttc is a vital part of the operations of the parks.

 

[Tom]

So if there is no ttc, the epcot line and express lines would just be one stop rides. There would not be a location for people to park along with buses bringing large groups to the parks. the ttc is a vital part of the operations of the parks.

Indeed.

And without it, you'd still have to get everyone around the lagoon. While one may have an opinion that it's not needed, it can't go anywhere. The "interface" must always exist, since they can't just drag the parking lot up to the entrance of the MK.

 

[s8film40]

So if there is no ttc, the epcot line and express lines would just be one stop rides. There would not be a location for people to park along with buses bringing large groups to the parks. the ttc is a vital part of the operations of the parks.

Indeed.

And without it, you'd still have to get everyone around the lagoon. While one may have an opinion that it's not needed, it can't go anywhere. The "interface" must always exist, since they can't just drag the parking lot up to the entrance of the MK.

I should be more clear I'm saying the TTC is not necessary within the context of my design for expanding the monorail system. Of course you couldn't just get rid of the TTC and change nothing, what I am saying is that the whole concept of the TTC is pointless other than to separate the MK from the parking lot. Disney has never built another TTC for any of the other parks and they work just fine. They could move everything that the TTC has to the MK and combine the monorail routes, even without an expansion this would still be better. It would also free up a lot of space for more development.

 

[JungleTrekFan]

Indeed.

And without it, you'd still have to get everyone around the lagoon. While one may have an opinion that it's not needed, it can't go anywhere. The "interface" must always exist, since they can't just drag the parking lot up to the entrance of the MK.

No but if there was a new TTC near Epcot, or epcot became the new TTC/parking hub, you would park there and take a monorail directly to the MK or take a monorail going in the direction of HS and AK.

Busus would be used to service nearby resorts to there designated park, where you would take the monorail to the park you want to go to.

Then there would be no nead for the huge parking lots infront of each of the parks (exculing cast parking), just one large centralized parking garage.

 

[s8film40]

No but if there was a new TTC near Epcot, or epcot became the new TTC/parking hub, you would park there and take a monorail directly to the MK or take a monorail going in the direction of HS and AK.

Busus would be used to service nearby resorts to there designated park, where you would take the monorail to the park you want to go to.

Then there would be no nead for the huge parking lots infront of each of the parks (exculing cast parking), just one large centralized parking garage.

While this sounds nice it would essentially be creating an even bigger park and ride operation, as it is the current one doesn't really even work a bigger one would a disaster. I think each park needs it's own parking lot or garage.

 

[flavious27]

I should be more clear I'm saying the TTC is not necessary within the context of my design for expanding the monorail system. Of course you couldn't just get rid of the TTC and change nothing, what I am saying is that the whole concept of the TTC is pointless other than to separate the MK from the parking lot. Disney has never built another TTC for any of the other parks and they work just fine. They could move everything that the TTC has to the MK and combine the monorail routes, even without an expansion this would still be better. It would also free up a lot of space for more development.

I know that you are basing your idea of a wdw off of the vegas monorail system, and for that system it works to just have 7 stations with no central hub. The difference with wdw is that the line is going to be longer than 4 miles and the daily ridership is more than 29k.

Any monorail system at wdw needs to be up 110% of the time, it can not have backups or delays. Having one line that is 30+ miles long will end up with major delays and backups during the day and endless chaos when the parks are closing and guests either are hopping over to another park or trying to get back to their hotel. The system needs to be broken down into as small of segments as is feasibly possible. This won't mean a system as complex as the NYC subway, but it would mean having enough lines that make sense.

 

[flavious27]

While this sounds nice it would essentially be creating an even bigger park and ride operation, as it is the current one doesn't really even work a bigger one would a disaster. I think each park needs it's own parking lot or garage.

They already do, wdw is not forcing everyone to park at the ttc.

 

[s8film40]

I know that you are basing your idea of a wdw off of the vegas monorail system, and for that system it works to just have 7 stations with no central hub. The difference with wdw is that the line is going to be longer than 4 miles and the daily ridership is more than 29k.

Any monorail system at wdw needs to be up 110% of the time, it can not have backups or delays. Having one line that is 30+ miles long will end up with major delays and backups during the day and endless chaos when the parks are closing and guests either are hopping over to another park or trying to get back to their hotel. The system needs to be broken down into as small of segments as is feasibly possible. This won't mean a system as complex as the NYC subway, but it would mean having enough lines that make sense.

Actually I've based my idea of of Walt Disney's original EPCOT plan. I stuck to the basic principle of having one long continuos monorail lie that would make a few stops at the key points throughout the resort and then smaller networks radiating from those key points to the surrounding areas. I think this is more efficient than having five hubs duplicating the same routes. This gets people to the general are they need to be adn then other transportation gets them to a more precise location.

I understand that this requires the monorails to be pretty reliable but this system could also work with buses as well if needed. you would just run buses from park to park.

 

[flavious27]

Actually I've based my idea of of Walt Disney's original EPCOT plan. I stuck to the basic principle of having one long continuos monorail lie that would make a few stops at the key points throughout the resort and then smaller networks radiating from those key points to the surrounding areas. I think this is more efficient than having five hubs duplicating the same routes. This gets people to the general are they need to be adn then other transportation gets them to a more precise location.

I understand that this requires the monorails to be pretty reliable but this system could also work with buses as well if needed. you would just run buses from park to park.

It follows the basis of one line from a welcome center to the amusement park, yet the elements involved at wdw differ from what they were planning 45 years ago.

 

[wishesjake]

I should be more clear I'm saying the TTC is not necessary within the context of my design for expanding the monorail system. Of course you couldn't just get rid of the TTC and change nothing, what I am saying is that the whole concept of the TTC is pointless other than to separate the MK from the parking lot. Disney has never built another TTC for any of the other parks and they work just fine. They could move everything that the TTC has to the MK and combine the monorail routes, even without an expansion this would still be better. It would also free up a lot of space for more development.

What about the excitement of parking and then riding the monorail to get to the front gate? MK was designed with some distance between the real world and it's surrounding resort area. I realize the buses have diminished that level of separation, but the answer is not to eliminate a carefully designed experience for efficiency's sake. Assuming there is no monorail expansion, why not have the buses rerouted to the ttc? It would give everyone an opportunity to experience the arrival to MK like WED originally designed. Transportation was originally part of the show and should remain that way.