Monorail expansion

[KaliSplash]

Hey I was browsing the web and thought of a great idea; expand the monorail so it connects all 4 parks, DTD and other resorts. So I googled it to see if anything came up and according to monorails.org, WDW is planning on making a new addition to the track. A new switch and spur line will be added in the area by the TTC. This will allow a maintenance vehicle to be kept in a central location, as well as an additional train that could be put into service if another train needs maintenance or if guest traffic increases.

So my question is what does everybody think of this? Do you think this will make the monorail system more organized and run smoothly? What about expanding the system so it connects the entire WDW?
:shrug:

Run for your life!!!!!!!

 

[Monorail Lime]

I happen to know for a fact that an expansion of the monorail was looked at and I've seen the artwork and route. The spur wasn't at the TTC but at Epcot. There would've been 2 more lines off of the station, one a shuttle-type line to DTD and back and the other to DHS, DAK and incorporating WWoS. It was simply looked at but tabled I'm afraid.

There were, at one time, other plans that called for a new primary hub near DTD. A pair of new lines along Epcot Center Dr would connect the new hub to the existing Epcot station (which would no longer have a direct link to TTC) and also to TTC via the rest of the existing Epcot line. The plans were already old when I saw them so I'm sure they are dead and buried at this point; but it is an interesting idea none the less.

I personally believe that too many guests would have a difficult time understanding a system that requires multiple transfers. One good thing that can be said for buses is that they are simple to use!

 

[mp2bill]

Run for your life!!!!!!!

Lol. Like nobody else has thought of this "great idea."

 

[niteobsrvr]

What are these numbers based on? Did you know that you can buy a Boeing 737-800 for approx $80 Million? Styrofoam, concrete and the molds to make them aren't that expensive when you compare to a modern airliner. $10 million more like it, but even then, 99% of the engineering work is done, just need to manufacture and install.

and therein lies the cost inflation, even though labor is cheaper today that 5 years ago, disney would certainly not get off too cheap. Site preparation, land planning, water management issues, environmental studies. it all starts to really add up.

 

[niteobsrvr]

I would imagine we are more likely to see electric powered buses before any monorail expansion is undertaken and even then we prob wont see electric buses for years. which is a shame. Not that id like to see more buses but it would be better if they were non polluting.lol

They were tested but under Disney operating conditions they were not as cost effective as one might think. Keep in mind in a typical city transit system busses can potentially stop every block or so thus regenerative braking plays a huge part in electric bus efficiency. DIsney buses tend to travel for much longer distances between stops and traffic lights with the exception of buena vista drive and downtown disney.

 

[raven]

Could it be possible that it would be a long term plan? I'd assume a stop at the WWOS would be to accommodate a new park, in the long term if the fifth park was built on that site.

Well the new high speed rail will have a stop near WWoS. A 5ht park was never in the plans then.

The plans were already old when I saw them so I'm sure they are dead and buried at this point; but it is an interesting idea none the less.

I personally believe that too many guests would have a difficult time understanding a system that requires multiple transfers. One good thing that can be said for buses is that they are simple to use!

Not buried otherwise I wouldn't have known about them. Busses are just as difficult to navigate. To go from DTD to a park or opposite you have to transfer busses and know what you are doing. Some people from other countries transfer trains, busses and boat almost every day. So I don't think it would be a matter of confusion. Heck, understanding Disney ticket options is more confusing than that.

 

[niteobsrvr]

You were knocking down the Monorail issue from a capacity standpoint, not just a cost standpoint, that is why I responded to your post. You mentioned that there would be no benefit to spending that huge sum of money and I think that you are severely mistaken on that point.

Again, the current trains wouldn't need to be extended, They can hold 300-350 guests at full capacity currently. If the system was automated and/or you could gaurantee that a train spends "x" amount of time in a station and the next train will arrive in exactly "x" minutes, I think the resort would easily be able to transition to a MOSTLY monorail model. Subways don't run everywhere you need them to go. You catch a spur line to get where you need to go. It's no big deal as long as the logistics could be worked out on placement and access to the stations.

But if you're thinking that I think buses could be completely ruled out you've mistaken. I think we should have an expanded EPCOT station along with a station at both DTD and the AK area with buses running from the hotels that aren't on a monorail loop to the closest station (AK, EPCOT or TTC). Either that or follow more closely with the Blue Sky model and add in a resort wide WEDway. And of course you would still have the waterways as an alternative form of transportation.

Anyway, point is, money is the issue, not the logistics, the system could be revamped if necessary to move the necessary amount of people to operate as the primary mode of transportation for the resort.

Anyway...this topic has turned into another General Discussion thread.

Is it fairly safe to assume that you have never worked in transportation with people? While much of the world relies on mass transit for their daily transportaiton needs and are thus very familiar with how it works, most Americans do not and are not, unless you live and work in a city like New York, Boston, Chicago (to an extent) or Washington DC.

For this reason, the system has to be simple with minimal transfers and waits. Imagine waiting for your train at the Magic Kingdom that will take you to the next hub where you will wait some portion of time for your bus that takes you to your resort. If you dont believe me spend a day traveling about with guests staying at Fort Wilderness for the first time. The transfers are sometimes mind boggling to them.

I am not saying Disney will never change. In all likelihood, I would say the next 5 to 7 years at WDW will be very interesting as they incorporate the high speed rail passengers into their transportation system. They will certianly have to provide some kind of transportation from the Wide World of Sports area to the rest of propertry for the train travelers. And, assuming the rest of the high speed rail system is eventually funded to cover the entire state, the demands will be even great in 10 to 15 years.

 

[Brian_B]

That tears it. This is the thread that finally killed my participation in this message board.

WDW is a sad remnant of what it used to be, and I honestly walk around the parks more upset at what's become of them rather than happy to be there anymore.

Threads like this don't help.

THEY. WILL. NEVER. EXPAND. THE. MONORAIL.

EVER.

END OF STORY.

Goodbye.

 

[devoy1701]

Is it fairly safe to assume that you have never worked in transportation with people? While much of the world relies on mass transit for their daily transportaiton needs and are thus very familiar with how it works, most Americans do not and are not, unless you live and work in a city like New York, Boston, Chicago (to an extent) or Washington DC.

For this reason, the system has to be simple with minimal transfers and waits. Imagine waiting for your train at the Magic Kingdom that will take you to the next hub where you will wait some portion of time for your bus that takes you to your resort. If you dont believe me spend a day traveling about with guests staying at Fort Wilderness for the first time. The transfers are sometimes mind boggling to them.

I am not saying Disney will never change. In all likelihood, I would say the next 5 to 7 years at WDW will be very interesting as they incorporate the high speed rail passengers into their transportation system. They will certianly have to provide some kind of transportation from the Wide World of Sports area to the rest of propertry for the train travelers. And, assuming the rest of the high speed rail system is eventually funded to cover the entire state, the demands will be even great in 10 to 15 years.

So you're only qualified to make a comment/suggestion on improvements to the transportation system if you've worked in transportation? And actually I have worked with the transportation of people on some scale when I worked in shore operations for a cruiseline and coordinated air arrivals with ground transfers, etc .

I've also experienced many mass transit systems and having to transfer between various systems to get where I needed to go and it really isn't that hard. LIRR to NJT to SEPTA is a very easy commute. And if people can figure out taking the DTD bus to a resort, then switching on to another bus or form of transportation to get to a park, OR that they need to take the MK Monorail to the TTC to get on the EPCOT monorail to get over there...then they could figure out a system with 1 or 2 transfers.

Having resort buses take you to a monorail station and then having the monorails take you to the park isn't that complicated. They did it with MK for the longest time. But when the resort got so big, they decided on routing buses directly to the park instead of increasing the capacity and efficiency of the monorail. :shrug:

 

[_Scar]

That tears it. This is the thread that finally killed my participation in this message board.

WDW is a sad remnant of what it used to be, and I honestly walk around the parks more upset at what's become of them rather than happy to be there anymore.

Threads like this don't help.

THEY. WILL. NEVER. EXPAND. THE. MONORAIL.

EVER.

END OF STORY.

Goodbye.

Really? This killed it?

lmao...

 

[Space Mountain]

So has anyone else noticed the hundreds of flags and markings for the new spur?

 

[Goofy Guy]

That tears it. This is the thread that finally killed my participation in this message board.

WDW is a sad remnant of what it used to be, and I honestly walk around the parks more upset at what's become of them rather than happy to be there anymore.

Threads like this don't help.

THEY. WILL. NEVER. EXPAND. THE. MONORAIL.

EVER.

END OF STORY.

Goodbye.

Wait, so in somewhere that you are supposed to be the most excited to be, you walk around upset rather than happy? Why would anyone do that to themselves? That makes absolutely no sense...Sounds like you need a change of scenery, or perspective, one of the two.

 

[niteobsrvr]

So you're only qualified to make a comment/suggestion on improvements to the transportation system if you've worked in transportation? And actually I have worked with the transportation of people on some scale when I worked in shore operations for a cruiseline and coordinated air arrivals with ground transfers, etc .

I've also experienced many mass transit systems and having to transfer between various systems to get where I needed to go and it really isn't that hard. LIRR to NJT to SEPTA is a very easy commute. And if people can figure out taking the DTD bus to a resort, then switching on to another bus or form of transportation to get to a park, OR that they need to take the MK Monorail to the TTC to get on the EPCOT monorail to get over there...then they could figure out a system with 1 or 2 transfers.

Having resort buses take you to a monorail station and then having the monorails take you to the park isn't that complicated. They did it with MK for the longest time. But when the resort got so big, they decided on routing buses directly to the park instead of increasing the capacity and efficiency of the monorail. :shrug:

I would imagine the Walt Disney World Resort is a little different overall than a cruise terminal although people can be pretty clueless anywhere. The reaction when people find out they have to take the Magic Kingdom monorail to TTC and transfer to get to the EPCOT line or the reverse is often priceless. They do not like the extra step and the grumbling can be heard. Other transfers are met in the same manner.

You get it because you have experience with mass transit. As I stated, most Americans do not. City buses are for the poor and infirm as most of middle America sees it. They have never even fathomed taking a bus as their car is right there in the driveway. Believe me when I say that the more transfers a passenger has to make, the less likely they are to use that form of transportation unless there is no alternative available.

 

[Disneyana Jones]

Sunrail may create a situation where the Monorail would be expanded to connect with the closest station, that being Osceola Parkway although a donation of land could bring it closer to TTC.

 

[Mick G.]

I fondly remember working "turnstiles" at the Epcot monorail station, and explaining constantly to guests, English speaking and otherwise, that they have to transfer at TTC to get to the Magic Kingdom. Or having to explain that the monorail isn't a ride, and it goes to the TTC several miles away, and that they would have to reboard at the other end.

It's not that people are dense -- but they are on vacation, and their brain is in the "off" position, so that they have become... tourists. It's sad, really. Some have come from places where they don't have mass transit, like my small town, so the best they can do is wait for the bus that has their destination on the front. Others are urbanites, who have figured out how to navigate their daily routine on the subway, but don't think about it otherwise.

Not that it matters. WDW won't spent the money to expand the monorail. And just wait for the High Speed Train from the airport, when people realize they are paying extra for a train that takes longer to get them from the airport to their resort than the good old Magical Express bus... or even a cab...

mick

 

[niteobsrvr]

Sunrail may create a situation where the Monorail would be expanded to connect with the closest station, that being Osceola Parkway although a donation of land could bring it closer to TTC.

It is the high speed rail network that will be coming to Disney property. The land that will be donated for the project sits opposite of the Wide World of Sports along I-4.


You can view a pdf of the proposed area here. (i hope)

http://flhsr.squarespace.com/tpa-orl-concept-plans/11-SR 535 to I-4_SR 528 Interchange.pdf

 

[imagineer boy]

Okay, I think we can all agree monorail expansion isn't happening. Okay? Okay. Thread Closed.

 

[Disneyana Jones]

Disney has been lobbying for high speed rail for a long time so hopefully we are closer than ever and that will get the ball rolling for something.

 

[Master Yoda]

Okay, I think we can all agree monorail expansion isn't happening. Okay? Okay. Thread Closed.

I am sorry but Disneyroks is the only one that can close a thread.

 

[JimboJones123]

I hate these threads, all the aholes come out and prove how much of aholes they are. Sigh.