Monorail Accident

[sweetpee_1993]

^^^

I wondered if there was a way to record or log instructions or movements but also the radio transmissions. My guess is not for the radios specifically because they operate on a Nextel-type push-to-talk radio system (which theoritically would be a more cost-effective way to have a "private" radio system that can't be scanned by outside sources and not spend the biiiig bucks I know it costs to put digital radio systems in place). Radio transmission recordings are integral in these types of investigations. They speak volumes, can either confirm or clarify what witnesses or those involved recall.

 

[board57796]

No information about the radio conversation between Central/MonorailOne and Shop? Somebody must know if that radio call was completed and/or normal sounding.

Is there a black box or anything in Shop that records switch movements? Theoretically, is there a way for Shop to document that the switch did actually move from their perspective?

All the radio commuications are recorded, and assume will be in the final report (just as ATC communications in plane crashes.) Maybe not the actual recordings, but at least transcripts.

I would assume shops video cameras record but I don't know for sure.

 

[mikeymouse]

Thanks for the reply, Board. That had me curious. I was almost in tears the entire way through, until the 2nd half of the video and I thought ... hmmm... ??? whats going on there? His family (including his Disney family) should be ever so proud of him. As said before, people like him are what the Disney Magic is all about.

 

[sharonmickey1]

I have been reading this thread over the past few days. Thanks to Board and all the others who have been so helpful posting accurate information. I'm amazed at all there is to learn about the monorails.

I would also like to say my thoughts and prayers are with everyone, especially those who witnessed this accident. To the driver of Pink and others directly involved I wish you peace. I cannot imagine the feelings these people have. I'm sure they all wish things had happened differently and would change it if they could. All of us have made mistakes. Until we have walked in their shoes please don't judge. I'm sure all three suspended workers feel badly enough without anyone pointing fingers.

Again, Thanks for all the information that has been posted.

 

[Figments Friend]

One thing I've wondered about is, as some of you may have noticed if you've ridden in the front, at night the windshields can become super foggy if you don't open the side windows, and even then they can still fog up. Also, looking in the mirrors is always taught in trianing, but those mirrors can shake like you wouldn't believe. If you've ridden up front you can feel how the cab bumps and rattles, and all of that is trasmitted to those mirrors. Driving in reverse really is a weird feeling, as everything is, well, in reverse :shrug:

I remember that now that you mention it as i have had many a ride over to EPCOT at night. It was never bad enough that their were visability problems, but i could see how it could be a issue if the windows were not open. It is the A/C reacting to the humidity in the air outside that causes this i am guessing. Same thing happens to my eyeglasses when i come out of UoE sometimes ( fogged up lenses due to the temp shift).

You reminded me of another experience i had once while riding on a recent visit - i was able to experience a MAPO Overide 'safety test' one afternoon while heading to EPCOT from the TTC. It was a interesting experience.

The train left the TTC station pretty full and traveled a short distance ( just past the bus parking/pick up area). It was not even half way between where the TTC is and where the Contemporary is located when the train slows to a stop. In all my many trips riding i have never once been in a train that stopped in this spot, so i started to feel something was not quite 'normal'.

The Pilot comes on the loudspeaker and speils that we are going to be delayed for a few minutes as we need to do a 'safety test' of the Overide system to test the emergency brakes. I was pretty impressed at how much info he gave, as your average Guest probably had no clue what he was talking about. I actually became excited as i knew just what he was talking about, as i was aware of such tests being done during the day. He of course told the Guests onboard to hold on for there would be a sudden jerking stop when the Overide slammed on the emergency brakes. As a big Monofan, i took it all as a rare treat.

So after the annoucement, we start to move ahead again slowly. We then start getting up to the usual speed in that area when suddenly the train slams to a stop. It took us a few mintutes to get going again, and at one point i think we even reveresed a very short distance. It was a neat experience to have in a car full of slightly dazed Guests.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I remember that now that you mention it as i have had many a ride over to EPCOT at night. It was never bad enough that their were visability problems, but i could see how it could be a issue if the windows were not open. It is the A/C reacting to the humidity in the air outside that causes this i am guessing. Same thing happens to my eyeglasses when i come out of UoE sometimes ( fogged up lenses due to the temp shift).

You reminded me of another experience i had once while riding on a recent visit - i was able to experience a MAPO Overide 'safety test' one afternoon while heading to EPCOT from the TTC. It was a interesting experience.

The train left the TTC station pretty full and traveled a short distance ( just past the bus parking/pick up area). It was not even half way between where the TTC is and where the Contemporary is located when the train slows to a stop. In all my many trips riding i have never once been in a train that stopped in this spot, so i started to feel something was not quite 'normal'.

The Pilot comes on the loudspeaker and speils that we are going to be delayed for a few minutes as we need to do a 'safety test' of the Overide system to test the emergency brakes. I was pretty impressed at how much info he gave, as your average Guest probably had no clue what he was talking about. I actually became excited as i knew just what he was talking about, as i was aware of such tests being done during the day. He of course told the Guests onboard to hold on for there would be a sudden jerking stop when the Overide slammed on the emergency brakes. As a big Monofan, i took it all as a rare treat.

So after the annoucement, we start to move ahead again slowly. We then start getting up to the usual speed in that area when suddenly the train slams to a stop. It took us a few mintutes to get going again, and at one point i think we even reveresed a very short distance. It was a neat experience to have in a car full of slightly dazed Guests.

We experienced one of those in 2000. Freaked me out.:lol:

 

[ChrisFL]

I've experienced a few of those in the past couple of years...maybe I'm just lucky or they do them often? :shrug:

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

I've experienced a few of those in the past couple of years...maybe I'm just lucky or they do them often? :shrug:

I wouldn't think so...:shrug: Coincidence?

 

[Tom]

I wouldn't think so...:shrug: Coincidence?

I THINK they do them whenever an additional train is brought onto the system. That's how our pilot explained it when we had our test.

We were approaching MK and he came on with the warning that we'd be coming to a sudden stop in a moment. He went on to explain that it was because they had brought another train onto that loop. So, I'm just inferring that it's a SOP - perhaps not.

I'll let an actual pilot verify.

 

[Slipknot]

I've experienced a few of those in the past couple of years...maybe I'm just lucky or they do them often? :shrug:

Every day, if not twice a day per Monorail.

 

[board57796]

I THINK they do them whenever an additional train is brought onto the system. That's how our pilot explained it when we had our test.

We were approaching MK and he came on with the warning that we'd be coming to a sudden stop in a moment. He went on to explain that it was because they had brought another train onto that loop. So, I'm just inferring that it's a SOP - perhaps not.

I'll let an actual pilot verify.

Yes on the trains first lap of the day, without passengers, the system is tested, then tested again at around 3pm on each train. When a new train is brought out for the day, they must test it also. You do "forward" and "reverse" checks. Forward check involves going past the holdpoint you were supposed to hold at (on instruction of Central ONLY) and you should be emergency-stopped shortly after, with a Red MAPO. Reverse checks involve the train BEHIND you preforming the same procedure, and then you put your train into reverse and you should recieve a Red Mapo also, because the train behind you is too close for you to move in reverse. The reverse check is always done with the train in the station, so if you have to wait at the station for a while, or wait on a train that otherwise seems totally operable, most likely its a reverse MAPO check. You would also be able to hear a "thump" as the emergency brakes on the wheels between each car are engaged. Each check is, like I said, done twice a day on all trains.

 

[MarkIV_railie]

You would also be able to hear a "thump" as the emergency brakes on the wheels between each car are engaged.

What are the emergency brakes on the Mark VIs? Air brakes? Ratchets that simply lock up the wheel?

The Mark IVs had two braking systems, the dynamic/electric brakes and the air brakes. I know a Mapo stop applied full air brakes. I don't recall if it included dynamic brakes. I don't recall a Mapo stop sounding any different than a hard manual stop.

 

[board57796]

What are the emergency brakes on the Mark VIs? Air brakes? Ratchets that simply lock up the wheel?

The Mark IVs had two braking systems, the dynamic/electric brakes and the air brakes. I know a Mapo stop applied full air brakes. I don't recall if it included dynamic brakes. I don't recall a Mapo stop sounding any different than a hard manual stop.

You know I'm not exactly sure. It's not a ratchet or pin, and they don't lock the wheels. We have both dynamic and air brakes still. I assume the "thunk" you hear when you get an E-Stop is the brake pads slamming up against the brake rotors? I've seen the pads and rotors for the drive wheels, they are MASSIVE. I just know it comes from between all the joints where the cars meet, which is where (as you know) all the drive wheels are.

 

[Rob562]

The Pilot comes on the loudspeaker and speils that we are going to be delayed for a few minutes as we need to do a 'safety test' of the Overide system to test the emergency brakes. I was pretty impressed at how much info he gave, as your average Guest probably had no clue what he was talking about. I actually became excited as i knew just what he was talking about, as i was aware of such tests being done during the day. He of course told the Guests onboard to hold on for there would be a sudden jerking stop when the Overide slammed on the emergency brakes. As a big Monofan, i took it all as a rare treat.

There's also a recorded spiel announcing the test. I've heard it in one or two videos on YouTube. Might be a fairly recent additon, though, as I hadn't heard of it before then. It was always the pilot announcing the test manually.
(The announcement also stands out because it starts with three tones to get your attention, compared to the usual single tone when the pilot makes a manual announcement)

EDIT: Here's the video I saw with the recorded spiel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3n5UtymwB0#t=2m00s

-Rob

 

[board57796]

Good clip. In case anyone was wondering when he rattles off those numbers, "207" is the pylon he was stopped at, "197" is the pylon he recieved his initial Amber warning, "77 and 78" are his brake pressure readings, and the end as he trails off he is saying "Unable to make visuals on Monorail {color}" The primary holdpoint for Epcot is 205, so he got 2 pylons past that before the train stopped him, which is normal for that speed.

 

[deix15x8]

Good clip. In case anyone was wondering when he rattles off those numbers, "207" is the pylon he was stopped at, "197" is the pylon he recieved his initial Amber warning, "77 and 78" are his brake pressure readings, and the end as he trails off he is saying "Unable to make visuals on Monorail {color}" The primary holdpoint for Epcot is 205, so he got 2 pylons past that before the train stopped him, which is normal for that speed.

How do you know what pylon your at? Do you memorize every pylon on the layout or is it written on the screen or track?

 

[board57796]

On the double track sections (like most of the Express/Resort), it is written on the pylon in the middle of the track and easy to see. On the single beam sections (like in the tear-drop and around TTC where the tracks are far apart) the numbers are "hidden" under the actual beam, but still written on the pylon. Its just theyre directly under the train. So, in short, we have to memorize them. Nothing tells us the exact pylon, other than being able to see a number, or if we cant, knowing by heart.

 

[WDW1974]

You are 100% correct as usual 74. And as much as you (and I - but I'm not as famous on these boards as you) complain about the dumbing down of Disney, the Dining Plan ruining the restaurants, etc. now we are dealing with the death of an innocent, and by all accounts an excellent, CM. That makes our other complaints pale by comparison, but it is all part of the same thing, constant corner-cutting at WDW. I mean, I can't even believe these monoroails were alowed to go backwards with apparently no visibilty. I always just assumed the driver went to the "back" which was then the "front" so he was facing forward when he drove the other direction. Even if this was only done at the end of the day when they were removing monorails from service, this one simple thing, NOT ALLOWING THEM TO GO BACKWARDS, would have absoultely prevented this accident. And Austin would be alive.

This had better make Disney management wake up. And I think it will, I am not one of those people who thinks they are evil, but they have lost sight of the big picture and become complacent, about alot of things. And this is haunting me even though of course I did not know him: they can sprinkle all the pixie dust they want, Austin is not coming back.

I just had dinner tonight with two ex-rails CMs and this was all discussed ... thankfully other more cheerful topics were as well. (Oh, and can I further my 'agenda' by saying MK was absolutely a pig pen tonight since the same lack of fundamentals, that slippery slope eventually does lead to a path where people's lives are at stake?)

The sad thing is as we sat I recalled that I spent a night at MNSSHP with one of them in 2006 where we sat at Cosmic Ray's for a snack and this topic came up ... the consensus then was 'if something doesn't change, someone's gonna die.'

Guess what?

Disney needs to wake up. Safety is the most basic thing. It even comes before triangles on SSE, pintrading, timeshares and the sheriff.

I am sickened and saddened beyond belief that Disney allowed -- and they did -- this situation to happen (one of the rails CMs who reportedly stood around looking like a deer in headlights and did nothing to try and avert it was standing around at TTC about an hour ago looking the exact same way.)

If people want to defend why the MK was filthy tonight, they can attempt it. But there's no defending Disney for allowing this to happen ... and for one family life will never be the same again.

This is the same crap as Anaheim during the late 90s, early 00s ... and tragically, the same results.

The only difference is this time Disney WILL get its head handed to it ... this time even the Orlando media is going after them with a vengeance.

Oh well, back to my magical WDW vacation ... I'll see you all a little later.

 

[jimjmb8]

Thank you Board

I would like to thank you for your posts. Like I said in my post, I left the rails in 2005. And the policies were a lot different then. Your knowledge of the rails is excelent, keep up the good work. We lost a fellow pilot, hopefully we will learn from the tragic accident, and never lose another pilot. RIP Austin.

 

[MonorailMarkVI]

There's also a recorded spiel announcing the test. I've heard it in one or two videos on YouTube. Might be a fairly recent additon, though, as I hadn't heard of it before then. It was always the pilot announcing the test manually.
(The announcement also stands out because it starts with three tones to get your attention, compared to the usual single tone when the pilot makes a manual announcement)

EDIT: Here's the video I saw with the recorded spiel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3n5UtymwB0#t=2m00s

-Rob

These tests were discontinued a few months ago. Now it is only done once when the train first comes out before it is loaded, so as it is now you will not see the test performed or hear that spiel anymore.