Monorail Accident

[jakeman]

Some are, some aren't.

That's probably true. It is a shame that a tragedy such as this is being used to further some people's agendas.

Since we have nothing but the factual report listed by the NTSB, what is the point of declaring that this is due to budget cuts or lack of training? None of that has been proven.

It is awful that something like this happen and there definitely was a break down at some point. It will be up to the officials to determine if it was systemic or individual break down that caused the crash.

Maybe I am of the opinion that the discussion of this accident can take place without overt finger pointing and grandstanding.

 

[JWG]

In my experience, any thread longer than about 10 pages is just a complain-fest. It sure would be nice to have a place to read actual information rather than seeing constant moaning about how miserable the world is, how litigation is the cause of all problems and why the descent at SSE is akin to clubbing baby seals.

Anyone have a full animated schematic (gif) of the monorail system?

By page 100 we just grunt and club each other.

I can't read through all 98 pages or whatever, but what I'm wondering is, why did the pilot of monorail pink not notice that he was going through the wrong side of the TTC monorail station? You would think that he would see, oh, whoops, I'm going back through the Epcot side, the switch must not have worked, and stop the train before it got all the way to crashing into purple outside the station on the other side. Or at least be in the process of stopping the train by then. That just doesn't seem right to me, especially if the pilot had done that before many times.

I honestly don't think the pilot knew in time to do anything. The difference in curve from moving to express and staying on Epcot isn't that much looking at the diagram. It's night (2am) and dark. By the time you're in TTC station and notice Central and the platform on your left the train is already at the other end of TTC and what can you do? Minimal distance between trains (due to being in reverse) + reaction time once you do notice = tragedy.

Maybe I'm too nice or shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt, but it just seems like it would have been hard to notice in time to actually do something.

AND, right or wrong, you give me a "Clear to" I trust I am and I'm probably not as in tune with my environment as I should be. We all (admit it or not) are less observant if we think a piece of safety or equipment or something else is looking out for us. Fault Pink for that, but also fault 99% of all other people in his situation.

 

[rcapolete]

I can't read through all 98 pages or whatever, but what I'm wondering is, why did the pilot of monorail pink not notice that he was going through the wrong side of the TTC monorail station? You would think that he would see, oh, whoops, I'm going back through the Epcot side, the switch must not have worked, and stop the train before it got all the way to crashing into purple outside the station on the other side. Or at least be in the process of stopping the train by then. That just doesn't seem right to me, especially if the pilot had done that before many times.

correct me if im wrong but i think someone back a ways in this thread said that by the time his cab would have pulled into the ttc there would not be enough time to have stopped before he crashed. Haven't heard either way whether he was in the process of stopping our was still traveling a 15mph. would be interested to know though

 

[RiversideBunny]

The pilot of Monorail Pink was in the rear of the train, now that it was going in reverse.

This all happened at 2am when it was dark. Not sure how obvious the different tracks are then.

 

[Fashionista007]

I honestly don't think the pilot knew in time to do anything. The difference in curve from moving to express and staying on Epcot isn't that much looking at the diagram. It's night (2am) and dark. By the time you're in TTC station and notice Central and the platform on your left the train is already at the other end of TTC and what can you do? Minimal distance between trains (due to being in reverse) + reaction time once you do notice = tragedy.

I completely agree. I feel so bad for the pilot and now his name has been released as well as the fact that he's under psychiatric care to deal with the emotional crisis. I can only imagine the flood of calls and knocks on the door from reporters. They should leave him alone to deal with this horrible tragedy.

 

[Mary Poppins]

by page 100 we just grunt and club each other.

:roflol:

 

[freediverdude]

Well, if a pilot really can't tell the difference between the two sides of the TTC monorail station while in reverse until it's too late in a situation like that, then IMO the policy of driving the monorails in reverse should be changed. Yes it may cause a 5 minute holdup, but if they have to do that to avoid deaths, then they have to do it.

 

[Mary Poppins]

Well, if a pilot really can't tell the difference between the two sides of the TTC monorail station while in reverse until it's too late in a situation like that, then IMO the policy of driving the monorails in reverse should be changed. Yes it may cause a 5 minute holdup, but if they have to do that to avoid deaths, then they have to do it.

I believe board mentioned that it had been changed.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

You sure did! Thank you, guys.

No prob. Glad to help. :wave:

 

[Monorail_Orange]

I honestly don't think the pilot knew in time to do anything. The difference in curve from moving to express and staying on Epcot isn't that much looking at the diagram. It's night (2am) and dark. By the time you're in TTC station and notice Central and the platform on your left the train is already at the other end of TTC and what can you do? Minimal distance between trains (due to being in reverse) + reaction time once you do notice = tragedy.

Maybe I'm too nice or shouldn't give the benefit of the doubt, but it just seems like it would have been hard to notice in time to actually do something.

AND, right or wrong, you give me a "Clear to" I trust I am and I'm probably not as in tune with my environment as I should be. We all (admit it or not) are less observant if we think a piece of safety or equipment or something else is looking out for us. Fault Pink for that, but also fault 99% of all other people in his situation.

A few pages back, someone (sorry memory fail) mentioned that at about 3 am a couple of days ago, it seemed two monorails, Green and Red OR Orange were participating in a re-enactment, less collision. I'm sure part of that is to ascertain exactly when Pink should have noticed he was on the wrong beam - i.e. after switch, track is on left instead of right - if he could have seen it at that time (2 or 3 am, it really shouldn't matter, the switches are illuminated anyway).

Personally, I'm withholding any and all judgment on Pink's pilot until I hear the results of the above testing. (Which, granted, may not be until NTSB releases it's report.)

 

[board57796]

One thing I've wondered about is, as some of you may have noticed if you've ridden in the front, at night the windshields can become super foggy if you don't open the side windows, and even then they can still fog up. Also, looking in the mirrors is always taught in trianing, but those mirrors can shake like you wouldn't believe. If you've ridden up front you can feel how the cab bumps and rattles, and all of that is trasmitted to those mirrors. Driving in reverse really is a weird feeling, as everything is, well, in reverse :shrug:

 

[sweetpee_1993]

One thing I've wondered about is, as some of you may have noticed if you've ridden in the front, at night the windshields can become super foggy if you don't open the side windows, and even then they can still fog up. Also, looking in the mirrors is always taught in trianing, but those mirrors can shake like you wouldn't believe. If you've ridden up front you can feel how the cab bumps and rattles, and all of that is trasmitted to those mirrors. Driving in reverse really is a weird feeling, as everything is, well, in reverse :shrug:

My car does this! We have a 2007 Mazda 3 that, granted, has pretty high mileage and the driver's side mirror has a vibration to it when driving down the road while the passenger side does not. It's like the mirror is slightly loose in it's seating. I can still see out of it enough to get the drift of what's what and with the other 2 mirrors I use I'm good to go. Until I feel the mirror vibration is problematic in my functioning as a driver I'm not worried about taking it in to have it fixed (at which point undoubtedly the dealership will find 6 other things that will cost me a fortune to have fixed). But, yeah, I totally can see where mirror vibration could mess with your head especially at night!

 

[mikeymouse]

I apologize if this was already mentioned ... I've been away for a couple of days. What is he doing when he enters the MK station in the video? Some sort of MBS or MAPO test?

 

[board57796]

I apologize if this was already mentioned ... I've been away for a couple of days. What is he doing when he enters the MK station in the video? Some sort of MBS or MAPO test?

They seem to have captured a "wonky" MAPO malfunction on that video. For whatever reason, he must have gotten a RED MAPO as he entered the MK on Resort, and the woman started filming just as Central told him to "MAPO Override to complete your stop at MK" or something similar. The reason I can tell its a malfunction is because you can see the lights on the left of the console jumping between Red, Amber and Green, seemingly at random. The loud "thump" or "click" you may hear as it goes in and out of Red are the emergency brakes engaging/disengaging. They are quite loud from inside the train.

The button he holds down on the top left is MAPO Override, and anytime you override anything in the Monorail you get that extremely high pitched noise. Pink and Purple would have had this in their ears that night.

 

[montyz81]

good to see that this Monorail Accident is falling down on the discussion list. Some of you may not agree but this is the first sign of healing and normalcy.

 

[lazyboy97o]

good to see that this Monorail Accident is falling down on the discussion list. Some of you may not agree but this is the first sign of healing and normalcy.

I think it may have more to do with a solid story being present and the lessening of room for speculation and discussion.

 

[TraceyC/FL]

One thing I've wondered about is, as some of you may have noticed if you've ridden in the front, at night the windshields can become super foggy if you don't open the side windows, and even then they can still fog up. Also, looking in the mirrors is always taught in trianing, but those mirrors can shake like you wouldn't believe. If you've ridden up front you can feel how the cab bumps and rattles, and all of that is trasmitted to those mirrors. Driving in reverse really is a weird feeling, as everything is, well, in reverse :shrug:

I've got a page left to read, but the foggy windows would be a VERY valid point. It was foggy out by all the news reports - my parents said it was VERY foggy on the way in Sunday morning to the MK (coming in the 429, they couldn't see the parks because of fog over them).

So if it was a wet fog, you'd have potential moisture issues and humidity that is going to fog the windows. I'm going to assume AC was cranked cool and contributing (is there separate temps for the cab vs the rest of the train? because i then am assuming that you have it cooler at the end of the day to "refresh" the guests... and keep yourself alert).

Anyway, that would be conditions that you couldn't totally duplicate in testing either.

Fog in FL is a strange beast too..... i'm used to the CA Central Coast daily Marine layer!

Board, again, thanks for all the info. I still wanna be a pilot - but i want those cameras DL has!

 

[mmzplanet]

Board, again, thanks for all the info. I still wanna be a pilot - but i want those cameras DL has!

Same here, I don't see them hiring me into a seasonal role to do that. :lol: I'd be happy to get back to the RR as seasonal.

Oh well, I guess I'm waiting till I retire to ever go back.

 

[board57796]

good to see that this Monorail Accident is falling down on the discussion list. Some of you may not agree but this is the first sign of healing and normalcy.

I agree, its nice to see it slowing down. If I see a technical question pop up now and then I will answer it the best I can, but will now just sit back and wait for the report. Everything I know, you all now know from the news and reports.

 

[MarkIV_railie]

Everything I know, you all now know from the news and reports.

No information about the radio conversation between Central/MonorailOne and Shop? Somebody must know if that radio call was completed and/or normal sounding.

Is there a black box or anything in Shop that records switch movements? Theoretically, is there a way for Shop to document that the switch did actually move from their perspective?