RiversideBunny
New Member
.... Pink had to have known that he was on the wrong rail...
Sounds right, but doesn't it still leave open the question about why monorail pink was in fact on the wrong rail?
.... Pink had to have known that he was on the wrong rail...
Sounds right, but doesn't it still leave open the question about why monorail pink was in fact on the wrong rail?
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@ Lightboy;
I agree with all your points, which is why I feel so awful for the driver of Pink. This person, and I know them, would not have killed a fly, now has this guilt on his conscience. I just can't imagine how that feels. Everyone around that area that night, I'm sure, will remember this for the rest of their lives.
There are no MAPO transmittors on any of the switchbeams. Therefore, anytime a train moves across any switch (or down the spurline to shop) it has to be in MAPO override. So if Pink had been on the correct route, it would have had to MAPO override through switches 9 and 8, because there are no transmittors telling it where it is. Then, once it was passing through Base, the train would begin to "see" the transmittors behind it on the Express beam (the direction it is traveling), the MAPO would return to green, since the train was off the switch, the pilot would disengage MAPO Override, and continue in reverse on Express at normal operating speeds, with a Green MAPO.
Monorail Pink was supposed to go in "reverse" all the way around (clockwise) to the Magic Kingdom station. Once there, the monorail was to be reset so that it could proceed "forward" onto the spur and up to the barn.After taking a loot at the diagram that was just posted, I decided to take a look at the satellite of the resort to trace a monorail's trip to the shop. I'm guessing that after reversing through the TTC, the monorail would then begin going forward on the Seven Seas Lagoon loop through the Contemporary and off the spur that heads to the monorail storage. To me it wouldn't make much sense to go reverse all the way around the other way, but even if one did, it does not appear that either way would have one drive into the shop forward. The spur comes off the line so that it appears the only way to switch on it would be if the monorail was going clockwise, while, if it switches onto the loop the way that diagram suggests, going forward would take the train counter-clockwise. One would either have to go in reverse and switch off or pass the spur, switch directions, and then switch off in reverse.
This has been my thinking too. While Monorail Purple supposedly needed to be in override to make it all of the way to the station, it is possible that the train proceeded without override.Actually... to the contrary... I'm wondering if Purple's e-stops could have kicked in (if it was NOT in Override) and prevented it from moving when/if the pilot saw the approaching train (pink).
Just looking out at the switch would have indicated a problem. If the switch had been thrown there would have been track to the pilot's right. Being on the wrong track means that the pilot continued even though there was track, the one he was supposed to be on, on his left.If that is the case, and everybody everything "by the book" then think what must be going though thier heads. The Pink pilot knows he followed instruction to reverse and override MAPO. But he also knows that if he had noticed the tower was on the wrong side, he could have stopped -maybe.
It would still look like a hole because of how close the spur line is to the station. board made mention of going around in reverse at 40 MPH, so at some point along the Express Line override is disengaged. MAPO is all based on proximity and the switch is far too close to the station to not have an affect.But after he clears the switch, why would it look like a hole ?
I still do not think cameras are necessary. It would be easier to just reset the monorail at the EPCOT Line Station so that the first pilot off is driving "forward" onto the switch and can visually verify the switch has been made. This was not being done so as not to make guests wait.I think Disney should use this as an opportunity to look at things that should be upgraded.
1) The cheapest, put a camera in the other cab so the operator has eyes in the back while reversing.
According to board, Monorail Pink would have also lost power while the switch was moving.What I REALLY would like to ask for opinions on...is the following...
(1) After talking with MULTIPLE monorail pilots, they've all answered, "I definitely know when I'm backing through that switch" And the reason is...that you actually FEEL the train shift through a sharp left as you're backing onto the spur. They said it's very hard to not notice.
(2) If you pass ANY switches at night-time, they are lit. You'd be able to see as soon as the cab passes over the switch that you're on the wrong one, and Estop. AND Estop with sufficient room that your back car doesn't even enter the station.
(3) Monorail pilots also tell me...even if its dark, you'd be able to VISUALLY confirm you're on the wrong rail. If you were backing onto the spur, you'd be able to see the Epcot line DIRECTLY to your right (refer to Rob's picture).
A lot of people had a hand in this, not just the pilot of Monorail Pink.It almost seems to me that if Pink was paying attention like he/she should have been...(and not even a GREAT deal of attention, these are all minor things)...then poor Austin would have went home that night. Lack of attention to the motion and position of his train, I think holds equally accountable as the switches not being in the right position.
maybe next you could tell us what an airline pilot should do/know based on your lack of experience as a pilot alsoYes, it leaves that question open. But this is an answer I feel that we may never have. Unless one day we get inside information. But we have enough information to know that the switch was not switched. Either by someone forgetting to switch it, or call for it to be switched, or a mechanical difficulty that showed it wasn't still where it should be.
I'll still be standing by the fact that, if Pink had been aware of the circumstances around him/her (read my last post)...and I believe it was 100% within their realm to notice...then it doesn't matter which position the switch was in, or which rail he/she was on.
But yes, the switch and the driver of pink were both fatal factors. But one of those two factors could have changed the outcome.
And that I believe where experience comes in. This statement has NOTHING to do with age. Same as a airplane pilot learns the ins and outs of his/her aircraft...from airspeeds, to little changes in performance (they learn to "feel" the aircraft as they fly it)........I honestly believe a monorail pilot with extensive experience, would have noticed he was on the wrong beam. He would have noticed that it didn't "feel right" going through the switch, or perhaps the scenery looked different outside the cab.
And I "am" looking for critiques onto my opinion. If you feel I'm wrong, I have no problem with you telling me!![]()
A lot of people had a hand in this, not just the pilot of Monorail Pink.
And here is the perfect Catch 22.
We have this same issue at my job as well.
"A more experienced person would have noticed the problem"
The only problem, is how do you get experience? All the training in the world does not equate to real life experience. You have to do it to become exerienced, but you have to start out inexperienced.
-dave
The audio released is being attributed to Reedy Creek. I think that may just have more to do with how 911 operators are trained to handle calls. They always have that very calm demeanor. Its irritating as hell when you are the one making the call, but its for the best that they stay calm and help to prevent panic.Does anyone know if these 911 calls were picked up by orange county or disney thru reedy creek? The man taking the calls seems unsure of where ttc is, somewhat confused...either way a very tragic situation![]()
And here is the perfect Catch 22.
We have this same issue at my job as well.
"A more experienced person would have noticed the problem"
The only problem, is how do you get experience? All the training in the world does not equate to real life experience. You have to do it to become exerienced, but you have to start out inexperienced.
-dave
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