MM+ Why we can't have nice things.

Jimmy Thick

Well-Known Member
I agree they are a major player and probably the largest, but other companies are also turning out good work, Dreamworks for example.

Atari popularized the video game and dominated the industry for many years. Where are they now?

Define good work?

Disney makes stinkers too, The Lone Ranger put me to sleep literally, but I enjoyed John Carter.

Atari was a fad, the current video game companies got it right, or I should say Nintendo did everyone else copied their business model.

Jimmy Thick- Kinda like Disney theme parks...
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
I don't trust you. I don't believe you.

You know multiple people who hadn't thought much about taking their first Disney trip who saw a woman's polka dot wristband and got on a plane?

As I said before, I don't believe you. I won't believe you. You said we should leave it at disagreeing, which I was fine with. Still am. Not going to believe you, no matter how many times you say, "trust me".


Well I can't give you names of clients but I sell travel as my 2nd job and I received several inquires after the parade aired. This is how I also know about several who have booked previously just to try out the new bands
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Define good work?

Disney makes stinkers too, The Lone Ranger put me to sleep literally, but I enjoyed John Carter.

Atari was a fad, the current video game companies got it right, or I should say Nintendo did everyone else copied their business model.

Jimmy Thick- Kinda like Disney theme parks...

I would put Despicable Me and How to Train Your Dragon up against a lot of what Disney has done. John Carter is the kind of movie I normally like, but I couldn't get through it.

Atari didn't have to become a fad, it crashed due to bad business decisions. The the early 80's they were king of the hill, even Nintendo was afraid to go up against them, but they made mistakes and fell hard.
 

Jimmy Thick

Well-Known Member
Perhaps, I shouldn't have used any specific examples since you didn't answer my question (or if you did, I don't get it) and I was genuinely curious about your answer. If you were to make a new attraction at Disney World, would you prefer it be based on an exiting intellectual property or none at all? Further if you want to base your attraction on an ip, do you think the popularity of the aforementioned intellectual property has a big or small impact on the long-term impact of the kick butt (I'm assuming since you made it) attraction you designed? I've always thought the ip was less important than the attraction/land, but I don't mind something based on an existing ip (even if it is one I'm not personally enamored with). I was curious about your opinion.

I don't get myself either sometimes, no harm.

The question you pose is a loaded one, because due to Disney's recent acquisitions they really have no choice but to use an existing IP like say Star Wars. That being said, Star Wars has proven to be popular beyond its initial sample size with no signs of slowing down anytime soon. The billions Disney paid will look like peanuts in a couple years.

Personally, I would love to see original attractions, but I don't know if such a thing is possible anymore in the internet age. Horizons if revealed to the public now would more than likely disown the ride after a few months because the public wouldn't care about it. No one wants to go to a theme park to learn about anything, they want the thrill or omg moment to tweet to someone. You won't get that with original attractions anymore unless they have a multi-million dollar IP attached.

As much as I rag on Potter, its the future, like it or not.

Jimmy Thick- Disposable IP's to the rescue.
 

DisneyMatt1

New Member
Why can't Universal and Disney both be great parks? Been to both many times and Disney does MANY things better than Universal and Universal does some better than Disney. Disney does food and hotel and transportation and cleanliness a million times better than Universal. Universal does teenage thrill rides better than Disney. Spiderman, Hulk, Dragons and Potter are NOT geared toward under 12, but are all incredible rides. Spiderman/Potter can be if the kid is really into Potter, but it is scary for most younger ones. But to say Disney and Universal don't compete is silly. Disney DID Magical Express to beat Universal. No need to leave Disney property. Disney DID Hollywood Studios as a direct result of having Universal open 20+ years ago. If Disney wasn't trying to "beat" Universal, why not partner with them and have an on-premise Disney trip followed by an on-premise Universal trip for a couple days?
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Why can't Universal and Disney both be great parks? Been to both many times and Disney does MANY things better than Universal and Universal does some better than Disney. Disney does food and hotel and transportation and cleanliness a million times better than Universal. Universal does teenage thrill rides better than Disney. Spiderman, Hulk, Dragons and Potter are NOT geared toward under 12, but are all incredible rides. Spiderman/Potter can be if the kid is really into Potter, but it is scary for most younger ones. But to say Disney and Universal don't compete is silly. Disney DID Magical Express to beat Universal. No need to leave Disney property. Disney DID Hollywood Studios as a direct result of having Universal open 20+ years ago. If Disney wasn't trying to "beat" Universal, why not partner with them and have an on-premise Disney trip followed by an on-premise Universal trip for a couple days?

Same reason the Eagles and Cowboys can't both be great football teams. ;)
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
One of the best words of wisdom of WDW1974 is that 'there are two kinds of WDW fans, those who knew EPCOT Center, and those who didn't'. So right. And never the twain shall meet.
Nothing in FW is better now than it once was, and very little of what once was still remains. The Phillistines have done to EPCOT what they did on a smaller scale to the Empress Lilly. They took something that was beautiful, unique, stylish, and replaced it with the crass, dumb, ugly version of itself.


Das Boat - it's like marrying 1982 Kirstie Alley. If you've only known her now you'll never understand.

Exactly
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I don't get myself either sometimes, no harm.

The question you pose is a loaded one, because due to Disney's recent acquisitions they really have no choice but to use an existing IP like say Star Wars. That being said, Star Wars has proven to be popular beyond its initial sample size with no signs of slowing down anytime soon. The billions Disney paid will look like peanuts in a couple years.

Personally, I would love to see original attractions, but I don't know if such a thing is possible anymore in the internet age. Horizons if revealed to the public now would more than likely disown the ride after a few months because the public wouldn't care about it. No one wants to go to a theme park to learn about anything, they want the thrill or omg moment to tweet to someone. You won't get that with original attractions anymore unless they have a multi-million dollar IP attached.

As much as I rag on Potter, its the future, like it or not.

Jimmy Thick- Disposable IP's to the rescue.

I think this just comes down to risk aversion. Much less risk using an IP since you know you have a built in audience.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
Why can't Universal and Disney both be great parks? Been to both many times and Disney does MANY things better than Universal and Universal does some better than Disney. Disney does food and hotel and transportation and cleanliness a million times better than Universal.
No, Uni does hotels and transportation a million times better than Disney. Disney doesn't even attempt to compete with Uni (or any other good hotel) when it comes to their hotels. The Uni parks are also cleaner and spiffier-looking than the Disney ones. Food is debate-able, but I have to with Uni there, too.
Universal does teenage thrill rides better than Disney. Spiderman, Hulk, Dragons and Potter are NOT geared toward under 12, but are all incredible rides. Spiderman/Potter can be if the kid is really into Potter...
I don't care much about Harry Potter or Spider-Man, but enjoy both rides. I love the Spider-Man ride.

Spider-Man isn't really a thrill ride, but the real thrill rides at Uni are much more thrilling an Disney's thrill rides.
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
To be fair to MM+, lets look at the state of these systems BEFORE MM+.

In 2012, the website was awful. It barely worked. Linking ADRs was a nightmare. ADRs booked online would often get lost, or wouldn't link using the confirmation number (much less automatically link).

In 2011 and 2010 it was even worse.

So, upgrading the site was a positive and needed thing (even though many of the issues I described from 2012 still exist today, but I expect to see that phase out...still not gonna trust my ADRs to the system yet, but maybe some day. :p)

Band integration, while the most visible, was actually something that went extremely smoothly for me (outside of band delivery where they shipped them but couldn't tell me where to, which is important because my residence is not my shipping address (long story). Pin set up worked well, and I never had to do anything with my hotel front desk (though, we did use both bands on the hotel door before going to the parks).

The band is PERFECT for the waterparks, which...even with their issues, are still among (if not the best) water parks in the world. Certainly the best themed.

Every previous trip Wifi has been terrible. In 2010, CBR was testing Wifi, and it was a nightmare to use. In 2011 I was relieved to see they had brought back ethernet at CBR. At 2012 at Pop they had Wifi and I was constantly losing connection or getting timed out. I was also staying there when they first released the Campus level Wifi (Wifi on the parks)...and, had mixed results.

This was very annoying for the type of use I need when at the parks (I get to take longer vacations, but the trade off is that I also work while on vacation at least a few hours most days). In 2013, the Wifi at Contemporary and at POFQ was great. I had no issues that I can recall. On the parks was a different story, but this was back in August, so...again, I suspect eventually these issues will be resolved.

As a side note, inconsistent and generally cruddy wifi isn't just relegated to WDW. At Disneyland Hotel (not WDW) the wifi was ok...in the buildings, but if I stepped 5 feet away from the building (like...I dunno, around the pool or the firepit or Trader Sams for a drink?) I couldn't get any signal. But, they also had wired in the room which worked fine.

So, Wifi upgrades were sorely needed. Especially as more and more people become reliant on connectivity. By providing solid connections and availability, Disney easily makes the vacation a better experience for me, as I don't have to stress or deal with slow or dropped connections. Therefore, since I can work whilst on the trip, I get to stay longer. Win win. Disney makes more off me by staying longer, I get a more relaxed trip and post trip experience because I'm not walking back into a firestorm.

FP+ is where the system starts to get a bit dicey. But, I did enjoy being able to pre-book my fast passes. I don't like the 3 a day limit (I think 5 would be better), I don't like the tiering...at all (who needs to "fastpass" Fantasmic...da heck?), I don't like the one park a day limit.

That being said, I do think that once they eliminate legacy FP, we'll see more options and choices...the only exception being tiering.

Tiering is a reflection of capacity issues in those parks (as has been said over and over again). At MK, I can think of one of a half dozen rides that I REALLY want a FP for. But, even other attractions (like Pirates or Haunted Mansion) I'd be ok with one if I was forced to pick it. Why? Because there are so many things to see there that pretty much any ride is a good deal for FP (note, I said pretty much, not all).

This is not the case at Epcot, where you have two types of rides. Ones that are jammed all day, and ones that rarely, if ever, carry a long wait. The same at HS, the same at AK. This is the issue.

So, while MM+ was certainly needed, and is a great infrastructure upgrade, for me the jury is still out with FP+.

I don't really balk at all this until I'm told that FP+ is "amazing" and is "the future of theme parks" and "Disney is ahead of the game"...yeah...right. Ok.

Why do they have to spend this much money now? In one push? Well, it's because they've been ignoring the infrastructure for the past decade.

Anyway, my point is...yeah, it's nice (when it works). But, I can think of a lot of nice things that money could also have bought. And, I know it's a distraction. And that concerns me more. It distracts management and cast away from focusing on the real mission of Disney. Making Magic.

That means, when someone calls your front desk to report that the chest of drawers in your $230 a night room is missing a handle...you don't wait until after that person's 10 day stay to replace the handle (not sure if they ever did).

It means when some snotty guest rips the emblem off of Sally at the Cars section of AoA within a few weeks of opening, you replace it (which I noted happened on my 2012 trip...and based on pictures I've seen of people who stayed there as recently as a few months ago...nope, Sally still has no hood emblem).

It means that you hire quality people and more imporantly compensate them and train them and follow up with their behaviours. For example, mousekeepers reporting facility issues instead of allowing guests to experience worn out spigots (like I did at Pop) that burn their kid because the washer is so worn it goes from cold to scalding hot with a tap.

It means that at your food courts, you don't let them get disgusting with dead roaches on the floor (want pictures from POFQ? I got em...if you want proof). It means you keep the beverage area clean and well stocked, with the ice melted (ever heard of hot water? Works wonders for that).

It means that you instill in your Cast members what it means to be "on stage" vs "off stage" so that they aren't openly gossiping about who is ging whom while you wait in line (granted, this was FAR worse at Legoland, but I saw it several times at Disney this past trip).

It means that you take care of Push the trash can and replace his missing rivits when they come loose and occassionally send him out for a new powdercoat.

It means that you clean the monorail carpets with a high pressure hot water clean at least once a week, not just let them wear and tear.

It means that the monorail drivers care enough about the vehicles they pilot that they notice these things and report them to maintenance.

It means all the LEDs and guns work on Space Ranger Spin, and if one does go down, the CMs are smart enough to either a) replace the part quickly (no reason this couldn't be done while the ride is moving, just a thought), b) report it to overnight maintenance but never c) put a plastic bag over the units to "mark" that that car is broken (assuming they even notice).

It means that management actually walks the park...not in a gaggle of managers so they can get their rears shined by CM lips, or for press events, but actually ride the rides, and see the issues themselves.

I could go on a very long time about these things. And, while they seem nitpicky (and some of them are)...every brush stroke contributes to a masterful painting. When certain strokes start to fade and chip, it effects the whole work.

Can I like this post 1000X !!!!
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Disposable IP's to the rescue.
Have things changed that much in a little over a decade? JTTCOTE and 20K at TDS? Screamin' and Soarin'? Even Test Track? Or would the latter three be more down to location? Even so, these are immensely popular and lack an IP to varying degrees.

I'd say yes. Things have changed that much. Sadly. I've said it before and will again. A true E Ticket will survive regardless of the IP. But yes, it's too risky and offers too little ROI in the eyes of PowerPoint land.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
No, Uni does hotels and transportation a million times better than Disney. Disney doesn't even attempt to compete with Uni (or any other good hotel) when it comes to their hotels. The Uni parks are also cleaner and spiffier-looking than the Disney ones. Food is debate-able, but I have to with Uni there, too. I don't care much about Harry Potter or Spider-Man, but enjoy both rides. I love the Spider-Man ride.

Spider-Man isn't really a thrill ride, but the real thrill rides at Uni are much more thrilling an Disney's thrill rides.


Wow
 

Nubs70

Well-Known Member
I wish they'd think like they need to spend some to make more then we'd all be one happy Disney forum singing it's a small world in harmony haha





.... Except for a few :)
Spending money to make money decreases Contribution Margin which is abject heresy in the executive suite.
 

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