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MM+ Why we can't have nice things.
- Thread starter asianway
- Start date
danlb_2000
Premium Member
You are constantly berating people who are judging MM+ without having evidence because they did not experience it. Since you are such a big supported of it I am interested in hearing your first hand experience. If you have already posted this else please direct me and I will take a look.
WDWDad13
Well-Known Member
I was liking his idea of adding a resort connected to the Epcot monorail
Yeah I can certainly see how it's cheaper to add DVC to deluxe resorts than start building new
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Yeah, ok, right. People wonder why you get called a troll, it's statements like this. People can have varying opinions about what they like or don't, but it is absurd to imply that Disney is the only company capable of creating quality entertainment.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
How many restaurants does McDonalds have world wide?
How many restaurants does Disney have in Florida?
Jimmy Thick- Don't see the analogy, not at all.
WDWDad13
Well-Known Member
luv
Well-Known Member
.
But not in one single American family room was a family sitting on the sofa, idly watching the Christmas parade when they heard about a polka dot wristband and said, "OH, MY GOD!! We have to go to Disney World!"
The people at Disney who decided to promote wristbands instead of trying to get people to visit the parks should be fired along with Bob Iger. They completely wasted valuable advertising time.
i can see a few Disney fans going to WDW, very eager to try out their wristband. I already knew some fans were happy about using them.
But not in one single American family room was a family sitting on the sofa, idly watching the Christmas parade when they heard about a polka dot wristband and said, "OH, MY GOD!! We have to go to Disney World!"
The people at Disney who decided to promote wristbands instead of trying to get people to visit the parks should be fired along with Bob Iger. They completely wasted valuable advertising time.
WDWDad13
Well-Known Member
Why would it matter. I used it for 2 weeks and no one cared about my experience with NO problems
WDWDad13
Well-Known Member
.
i can see a few Disney fans going to WDW, very eager to try out their wristband. I already knew some fans were happy about using them.
But not in one single American family room was a family sitting on the sofa, idly watching the Christmas parade when they heard about a polka dot wristband and said, "OH, MY GOD!! We have to go to Disney World!"
The people at Disney who decided to promote wristbands instead of trying to get people to visit the parks should be fired along with Bob Iger. They completely wasted valuable advertising time.
Trust me...there were
danlb_2000
Premium Member
My point exactly. Uni will likely never have the same numbers as WDW because they just don't have enough space to provide all the offerings that WDW does, but that doesn't mean Uni is of lower quality then Disney or that they aren't providing significant competition.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
They are not the only company capable of creating quality entertainment, but they are a creative monopoly that in the eye of the public more so than other media companies, create a quality family friendly product. Who else can make that claim? Universal? Nope.
Plus, they created the theme park.
Jimmy Thick- Back in the day.
danlb_2000
Premium Member
Are you sure about that? Please find the post where I criticized or tried to discredited your experience.
Forget comparing Disney to Universal. Thats an argument you will never win with these people. They constantly ignore the additions to Tokyo, Hong Kong, and DLR. They need look no farther than the same division...
luv
Well-Known Member
I don't trust you. I don't believe you.
You know multiple people who hadn't thought much about taking their first Disney trip who saw a woman's polka dot wristband and got on a plane?
As I said before, I don't believe you. I won't believe you. You said we should leave it at disagreeing, which I was fine with. Still am. Not going to believe you, no matter how many times you say, "trust me".
danlb_2000
Premium Member
I agree they are a major player and probably the largest, but other companies are also turning out good work, Dreamworks for example.
Atari popularized the video game and dominated the industry for many years. Where are they now?
Perhaps, I shouldn't have used any specific examples since you didn't answer my question (or if you did, I don't get it) and I was genuinely curious about your answer. If you were to make a new attraction at Disney World, would you prefer it be based on an exiting intellectual property or none at all? Further if you want to base your attraction on an ip, do you think the popularity of the aforementioned intellectual property has a big or small impact on the long-term impact of the kick butt (I'm assuming since you made it) attraction you designed? I've always thought the ip was less important than the attraction/land, but I don't mind something based on an existing ip (even if it is one I'm not personally enamored with). I was curious about your opinion.
Jimmy Thick
Well-Known Member
I have never said people cannot like Universal.
I personally don't feel it offers me the same quality or value WDW does. I don't see Universal as competition, Disney does not see Universal as competition if they did, they would be building at the same clip to bring in more guests which Universal has to. Disney is in this for the long run, MM+ is for the long run, Universal's constant building is short term and short sighted especially when the fad audience leaves.
That's how I feel, if it upsets you I apologize.
Jimmy Thick- I call it as I see it.
The Empress Lilly
Well-Known Member
One of the best words of wisdom of @WDW1974 is that 'there are two kinds of WDW fans, those who knew EPCOT Center, and those who didn't'. So true. And never the twain shall meet.
Nothing in FW is better now than it once was, and very little of what once was still remains. The Phillistines have done to EPCOT what they did on a smaller scale to the Empress Lilly. They took something that was beautiful, unique, stylish, and replaced it with the crass, dumb, ugly version of itself.
Das Boat - it's like marrying 1982 Kirstie Alley. If you've only known her now you'll never understand.
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Aww, don't resort to cheap shots.Victoria and Alberts compared to McDonalds is like comparing Disney to Uni
englanddg
One Little Spark...
To be fair to MM+, lets look at the state of these systems BEFORE MM+.
In 2012, the website was awful. It barely worked. Linking ADRs was a nightmare. ADRs booked online would often get lost, or wouldn't link using the confirmation number (much less automatically link).
In 2011 and 2010 it was even worse.
So, upgrading the site was a positive and needed thing (even though many of the issues I described from 2012 still exist today, but I expect to see that phase out...still not gonna trust my ADRs to the system yet, but maybe some day.)
Band integration, while the most visible, was actually something that went extremely smoothly for me (outside of band delivery where they shipped them but couldn't tell me where to, which is important because my residence is not my shipping address (long story). Pin set up worked well, and I never had to do anything with my hotel front desk (though, we did use both bands on the hotel door before going to the parks).
The band is PERFECT for the waterparks, which...even with their issues, are still among (if not the best) water parks in the world. Certainly the best themed.
Every previous trip Wifi has been terrible. In 2010, CBR was testing Wifi, and it was a nightmare to use. In 2011 I was relieved to see they had brought back ethernet at CBR. At 2012 at Pop they had Wifi and I was constantly losing connection or getting timed out. I was also staying there when they first released the Campus level Wifi (Wifi on the parks)...and, had mixed results.
This was very annoying for the type of use I need when at the parks (I get to take longer vacations, but the trade off is that I also work while on vacation at least a few hours most days). In 2013, the Wifi at Contemporary and at POFQ was great. I had no issues that I can recall. On the parks was a different story, but this was back in August, so...again, I suspect eventually these issues will be resolved.
As a side note, inconsistent and generally cruddy wifi isn't just relegated to WDW. At Disneyland Hotel (not WDW) the wifi was ok...in the buildings, but if I stepped 5 feet away from the building (like...I dunno, around the pool or the firepit or Trader Sams for a drink?) I couldn't get any signal. But, they also had wired in the room which worked fine.
So, Wifi upgrades were sorely needed. Especially as more and more people become reliant on connectivity. By providing solid connections and availability, Disney easily makes the vacation a better experience for me, as I don't have to stress or deal with slow or dropped connections. Therefore, since I can work whilst on the trip, I get to stay longer. Win win. Disney makes more off me by staying longer, I get a more relaxed trip and post trip experience because I'm not walking back into a firestorm.
FP+ is where the system starts to get a bit dicey. But, I did enjoy being able to pre-book my fast passes. I don't like the 3 a day limit (I think 5 would be better), I don't like the tiering...at all (who needs to "fastpass" Fantasmic...da heck?), I don't like the one park a day limit.
That being said, I do think that once they eliminate legacy FP, we'll see more options and choices...the only exception being tiering.
Tiering is a reflection of capacity issues in those parks (as has been said over and over again). At MK, I can think of one of a half dozen rides that I REALLY want a FP for. But, even other attractions (like Pirates or Haunted Mansion) I'd be ok with one if I was forced to pick it. Why? Because there are so many things to see there that pretty much any ride is a good deal for FP (note, I said pretty much, not all).
This is not the case at Epcot, where you have two types of rides. Ones that are jammed all day, and ones that rarely, if ever, carry a long wait. The same at HS, the same at AK. This is the issue.
So, while MM+ was certainly needed, and is a great infrastructure upgrade, for me the jury is still out with FP+.
I don't really balk at all this until I'm told that FP+ is "amazing" and is "the future of theme parks" and "Disney is ahead of the game"...yeah...right. Ok.
Why do they have to spend this much money now? In one push? Well, it's because they've been ignoring the infrastructure for the past decade.
Anyway, my point is...yeah, it's nice (when it works). But, I can think of a lot of nice things that money could also have bought. And, I know it's a distraction. And that concerns me more. It distracts management and cast away from focusing on the real mission of Disney. Making Magic.
That means, when someone calls your front desk to report that the chest of drawers in your $230 a night room is missing a handle...you don't wait until after that person's 10 day stay to replace the handle (not sure if they ever did).
It means when some snotty guest rips the emblem off of Sally at the Cars section of AoA within a few weeks of opening, you replace it (which I noted happened on my 2012 trip...and based on pictures I've seen of people who stayed there as recently as a few months ago...nope, Sally still has no hood emblem).
It means that you hire quality people and more imporantly compensate them and train them and follow up with their behaviours. For example, mousekeepers reporting facility issues instead of allowing guests to experience worn out spigots (like I did at Pop) that burn their kid because the washer is so worn it goes from cold to scalding hot with a tap.
It means that at your food courts, you don't let them get disgusting with dead roaches on the floor (want pictures from POFQ? I got em...if you want proof). It means you keep the beverage area clean and well stocked, with the ice melted (ever heard of hot water? Works wonders for that).
It means that you instill in your Cast members what it means to be "on stage" vs "off stage" so that they aren't openly gossiping about who is ging whom while you wait in line (granted, this was FAR worse at Legoland, but I saw it several times at Disney this past trip).
It means that you take care of Push the trash can and replace his missing rivits when they come loose and occassionally send him out for a new powdercoat.
It means that you clean the monorail carpets with a high pressure hot water clean at least once a week, not just let them wear and tear.
It means that the monorail drivers care enough about the vehicles they pilot that they notice these things and report them to maintenance.
It means all the LEDs and guns work on Space Ranger Spin, and if one does go down, the CMs are smart enough to either a) replace the part quickly (no reason this couldn't be done while the ride is moving, just a thought), b) report it to overnight maintenance but never c) put a plastic bag over the units to "mark" that that car is broken (assuming they even notice).
It means that management actually walks the park...not in a gaggle of managers so they can get their rears shined by CM lips, or for press events, but actually ride the rides, and see the issues themselves.
I could go on a very long time about these things. And, while they seem nitpicky (and some of them are)...every brush stroke contributes to a masterful painting. When certain strokes start to fade and chip, it effects the whole work.
In 2012, the website was awful. It barely worked. Linking ADRs was a nightmare. ADRs booked online would often get lost, or wouldn't link using the confirmation number (much less automatically link).
In 2011 and 2010 it was even worse.
So, upgrading the site was a positive and needed thing (even though many of the issues I described from 2012 still exist today, but I expect to see that phase out...still not gonna trust my ADRs to the system yet, but maybe some day.
)Band integration, while the most visible, was actually something that went extremely smoothly for me (outside of band delivery where they shipped them but couldn't tell me where to, which is important because my residence is not my shipping address (long story). Pin set up worked well, and I never had to do anything with my hotel front desk (though, we did use both bands on the hotel door before going to the parks).
The band is PERFECT for the waterparks, which...even with their issues, are still among (if not the best) water parks in the world. Certainly the best themed.
Every previous trip Wifi has been terrible. In 2010, CBR was testing Wifi, and it was a nightmare to use. In 2011 I was relieved to see they had brought back ethernet at CBR. At 2012 at Pop they had Wifi and I was constantly losing connection or getting timed out. I was also staying there when they first released the Campus level Wifi (Wifi on the parks)...and, had mixed results.
This was very annoying for the type of use I need when at the parks (I get to take longer vacations, but the trade off is that I also work while on vacation at least a few hours most days). In 2013, the Wifi at Contemporary and at POFQ was great. I had no issues that I can recall. On the parks was a different story, but this was back in August, so...again, I suspect eventually these issues will be resolved.
As a side note, inconsistent and generally cruddy wifi isn't just relegated to WDW. At Disneyland Hotel (not WDW) the wifi was ok...in the buildings, but if I stepped 5 feet away from the building (like...I dunno, around the pool or the firepit or Trader Sams for a drink?) I couldn't get any signal. But, they also had wired in the room which worked fine.
So, Wifi upgrades were sorely needed. Especially as more and more people become reliant on connectivity. By providing solid connections and availability, Disney easily makes the vacation a better experience for me, as I don't have to stress or deal with slow or dropped connections. Therefore, since I can work whilst on the trip, I get to stay longer. Win win. Disney makes more off me by staying longer, I get a more relaxed trip and post trip experience because I'm not walking back into a firestorm.
FP+ is where the system starts to get a bit dicey. But, I did enjoy being able to pre-book my fast passes. I don't like the 3 a day limit (I think 5 would be better), I don't like the tiering...at all (who needs to "fastpass" Fantasmic...da heck?), I don't like the one park a day limit.
That being said, I do think that once they eliminate legacy FP, we'll see more options and choices...the only exception being tiering.
Tiering is a reflection of capacity issues in those parks (as has been said over and over again). At MK, I can think of one of a half dozen rides that I REALLY want a FP for. But, even other attractions (like Pirates or Haunted Mansion) I'd be ok with one if I was forced to pick it. Why? Because there are so many things to see there that pretty much any ride is a good deal for FP (note, I said pretty much, not all).
This is not the case at Epcot, where you have two types of rides. Ones that are jammed all day, and ones that rarely, if ever, carry a long wait. The same at HS, the same at AK. This is the issue.
So, while MM+ was certainly needed, and is a great infrastructure upgrade, for me the jury is still out with FP+.
I don't really balk at all this until I'm told that FP+ is "amazing" and is "the future of theme parks" and "Disney is ahead of the game"...yeah...right. Ok.
Why do they have to spend this much money now? In one push? Well, it's because they've been ignoring the infrastructure for the past decade.
Anyway, my point is...yeah, it's nice (when it works). But, I can think of a lot of nice things that money could also have bought. And, I know it's a distraction. And that concerns me more. It distracts management and cast away from focusing on the real mission of Disney. Making Magic.
That means, when someone calls your front desk to report that the chest of drawers in your $230 a night room is missing a handle...you don't wait until after that person's 10 day stay to replace the handle (not sure if they ever did).
It means when some snotty guest rips the emblem off of Sally at the Cars section of AoA within a few weeks of opening, you replace it (which I noted happened on my 2012 trip...and based on pictures I've seen of people who stayed there as recently as a few months ago...nope, Sally still has no hood emblem).
It means that you hire quality people and more imporantly compensate them and train them and follow up with their behaviours. For example, mousekeepers reporting facility issues instead of allowing guests to experience worn out spigots (like I did at Pop) that burn their kid because the washer is so worn it goes from cold to scalding hot with a tap.
It means that at your food courts, you don't let them get disgusting with dead roaches on the floor (want pictures from POFQ? I got em...if you want proof). It means you keep the beverage area clean and well stocked, with the ice melted (ever heard of hot water? Works wonders for that).
It means that you instill in your Cast members what it means to be "on stage" vs "off stage" so that they aren't openly gossiping about who is ging whom while you wait in line (granted, this was FAR worse at Legoland, but I saw it several times at Disney this past trip).
It means that you take care of Push the trash can and replace his missing rivits when they come loose and occassionally send him out for a new powdercoat.
It means that you clean the monorail carpets with a high pressure hot water clean at least once a week, not just let them wear and tear.
It means that the monorail drivers care enough about the vehicles they pilot that they notice these things and report them to maintenance.
It means all the LEDs and guns work on Space Ranger Spin, and if one does go down, the CMs are smart enough to either a) replace the part quickly (no reason this couldn't be done while the ride is moving, just a thought), b) report it to overnight maintenance but never c) put a plastic bag over the units to "mark" that that car is broken (assuming they even notice).
It means that management actually walks the park...not in a gaggle of managers so they can get their rears shined by CM lips, or for press events, but actually ride the rides, and see the issues themselves.
I could go on a very long time about these things. And, while they seem nitpicky (and some of them are)...every brush stroke contributes to a masterful painting. When certain strokes start to fade and chip, it effects the whole work.