MM+ Why we can't have nice things.

[jakeman]

Really,

Have you seen the lines at the Kiosks 40-50 people deep, Lines at GR out the door - That's stress that's not a vacation.

Where have lines 40-50 people deep been reported?

 

[fosse76]

personally my plusses were:

- not having to run to Toy Story, Soarin, Safari, Space Mountain, etc. when the park opened to ride and/or get fastpasses from the old machines

Aside from Toy Story, I've never needed to run to any attraction to ensure a reasonable return time for an attraction. On days that are extremely packed, yes, return times are generally further along during the day, but they usually didn't "sell out" until late afternoon early evening.

- not having to carry park tickets around for my whole family

This is by far the lamest "defense" of the system. Carrying a card the size of a credit card is that difficult? Perhaps making everyone carry their own ticket would alleviate your burden.

- not having to carry credit cards or cash around which could be lost and used by someone else (or get wet on some rides)

Another weak argument, especially since guests could have all that added to their Key to the World card anyway. This isn't new.

- not having to carry around room keys

See above. Unless you were an annual passholder, the KTTW could have your tickets and credit card on them. Don't want to carry them in a bag or pocket? Get a lanyard.

- having additional time to do other things with my family (visit other attractions, shop, snack, rest, etc.) instead of standing in lines for paper fastpasses or at attractions I had previously booked to fastpass

I'll bet you spent more time planning your FPs in advance then you ever did standing in line gettings paper FPs, which means spending even less time with your family.

 

[WDWDad13]

The only thing in your list that didn't exist before MBs were the first and last items you mentioned.

If you stayed on-property, the Key To The Wold card contained your park tickets, credit/purchase abilities (tied to your credit card), room key(s), offered the ability to use fastpass, just not advanced reservation of them. Prior to the implementation of MB, we only carried our KTTW cards with us to the parks. And, like I mentioned, the advanced reservation feature for Fastpass and parade/firework locations could have technically been implemented using the KTTW cards.

For the record, I'm not anti-MB or MM+, I just don't see a huge guest advantage to using them.

not true... I am an AP holder... so I always had separate tickets (paper ones too ugh), room keys for my DVC room, my own credit cards, photopass cards (which I had forgot about in my previous post initially), and my tables in wonderland card. Maybe they could have linked my CC to my room key?

If they link the tables in wonderland card and have the ability to give AP or DVC discounts without having to carry around that card.. I won't need anything except my band

 

[wm49rs]

Where have lines 40-50 people deep been reported?

I didn't see lines 40-50 deep at the kiosks. But I will say the lines for GR at DHS, EP and MK were out the door, only because I was in two of them, and (fortunately) walked by the third. But this was also during Thanksgiving....

 

[GrumpyFan]

Went in August was jammed into the 'test' for these things and experience was so bad I cancelled holiday vacation over it. Some friends went week before last and they were 'underwhelmed' by the experience.

Our experience in October was relatively trouble-free with MB/MM+. However, we were also there in April prior to widespread rollout of MB and they were changing out the locks on the doors and we had a nightmare of a time. We went thru at least 5 different sets of keys and a couple of hours of lost time because they would not work.

 

[WDWDad13]

Aside from Toy Story, I've never needed to run to any attraction to ensure a reasonable return time for an attraction. On days that are extremely packed, yes, return times are generally further along during the day, but they usually didn't "sell out" until late afternoon early evening.


This is by far the lamest "defense" of the system. Carrying a card the size of a credit card is that difficult? Perhaps making everyone carry their own ticket would alleviate your burden.


Another weak argument, especially since guests could have all that added to their Key to the World card anyway. This isn't new.

See above. Unless you were an annual passholder, the KTTW could have your tickets and credit card on them. Don't want to carry them in a bag or pocket? Get a lanyard.


I'll bet you spent more time planning your FPs in advance then you ever did standing in line gettings paper FPs, which means spending even less time with your family.

nice effort there... but I didn't have to waste any time INSIDE the parks on these things.

Before I had to carry around my AP's, my room key, my credit cards, photopass cards, tables in wonderland card, and dvc member card

Now all I need is my magic band... as soon as they can link the TIW and DVC membership to the band I won't need anything other than the band

 

[jakeman]

I didn't see lines 40-50 deep at the kiosks. But I will say the lines for GR at DHS, EP and MK were out the door, only because I was in two of them, and (fortunately) walked by the third. But this was also during Thanksgiving....

I was just curious if that was now during the semi-official rollout/test at DAK.

 

[wm49rs]

I was just curious if that was now during the semi-official rollout/test at DAK.

Of course. DAK was the one park I didn't get to spend a full day in, due to car issues....

 

[WDWDad13]

Really,

Have you seen the lines at the Kiosks 40-50 people deep, Lines at GR out the door - That's stress that's not a vacation.

the so-called 40 or 50 people deep at GR first off probably aren't all for MM+ issues

secondly... most of the issues are because of lack of understanding or education on how all of this works - the majority of the problems are with people wanting their bands to do X but they just haven't set it up properly inside their account yet to do it, that's all. Sure there are some exceptions here and there (it's in the testing phase, remember), but if everything is setup correctly ahead of time everything works....no one in my family had an issue

Disney is FINALLY starting to realize you have to educate people (and some who are non-tech people) on what these are and how to use them...especially what they can do ahead of time. The new shipment of the USB drives and material they are mailing to homes now well ahead of time is going to help A LOT whereas people previously were kinda "winging it" based on what we played around with and learned online. Things are getting better... a lot better...and thinking will continue to improve and be enhanced as well.

 

[GrumpyFan]

nice effort there... but I didn't have to waste any time INSIDE the parks on these things.

Before I had to carry around my AP's, my room key, my credit cards, photopass cards, tables in wonderland card, and dvc member card

Now all I need is my magic band... as soon as they can link the TIW and DVC membership to the band I won't need anything other than the band

Okay, I will concede, for AP and/or DVC holders, I can see where this would make a big difference. However, and I'm sorry to tell you this, but you guys aren't really the primary guests that Disney is aiming for. They already have you hooked and they have your money, and their data shows that you won't necessarily be giving them a lot more. The ones they're trying to persuade to let go of more of their money are the first-timers and the repeats without AP/DVC. These make up the majority of guests by far in comparison to you and thus represent the biggest potential for revenue increase and perhaps increase in satisfaction to the point they will return more frequently.

 

[WDWDad13]

Okay, I will concede, for AP and/or DVC holders, I can see where this would make a difference.
However, you guys aren't really the primary guests that Disney is aiming for. They already have your money, and their data shows that you won't necessarily be giving them a lot more. The ones they're trying to persuade are the firsttimers and the repeats without AP/DVC.

I agree with that... and those first timers didn't always understand what a fastpass was either... so hopefully linking everything together (along with photopass/memory maker) will help them as well

the concern I see with some are the non-techies... not sure what to do if they don't have a mobile phone/app or are good online... I think the new educational materials they are mailing to homes will help a lot. I just got a box in the mail with the USB drive with information on what to do and how to get started and it's for my next trip 158 days away

 

[jakeman]

Of course. DAK was the one park I didn't get to spend a full day in, due to car issues....

Maybe it's because I'm just listening to my social media overlords, but I would consider the roll out at DAK a new phase in testing which renders the issues prior somewhat moot. Kind of like saying a computer game is horrible because you had issues during an alpha test.

 

[ford91exploder]

Did not see any lines whatsoever when we there in October. I guess it just depends on when you go.
P.S. If you're averse to long lines, perhaps you should try Disney during non-peak times. Otherwise, enjoy it, the lines are a "free bonus" Disney includes as part of the experience.

I don't mind lines - so long as they MOVE, these did not when something takes an hour now which used to take 30 seconds at most - yeah that's a regression and to avoid it I get to use smartphone!

Our touring style is not commando so generally went standby in the past with the odd fastpass if we wanted something like TSMM during day although generally we went to DHS for dinner and closed out day with TSMM late.

 

[wm49rs]

Maybe it's because I'm just listening to my social media overlords, but I would consider the roll out at DAK a new phase in testing which renders the issues prior somewhat moot. Kind of like saying a computer game is horrible because you had issues during an alpha test.

The period between now and the 1st will be an excellent litmus test. I will say the two GR managers I spoke with stated/assured that extra staff would be hired for both GR and the front gates and kiosks, for what I am assuming were these very issues. Which to a degree cuts into the staff savings Disney was looking to gain, at least in the near future....

 

[doctornick]

That's probably a stretch. I don't really think the first-timers care. They're just excited to be there and see everything. It's the repeats (like us), who want more attractions. However, the question is, does MB/MM+ make it easier for first-timers (and repeats) to plan and enjoy the parks in such a measure as they will want to come back and do it again? And, more importantly, from Disney's perspective, do guests spend more time and money on their visit?

To be fair, I do think that for a first time/infrequent guest that the MBs will be a positive experience once the kinks are worked out and it runs smoothly all the time. It may seem stupid to us regular and more critical visitors, but the "experience" of using the bands and getting the micky head to turn green is "different" from a typical theme park experience and does help to differentiate WDW. I know my young sons loved wearing and using the MBs on our recent trip -- they would often put "mickey to mickey" at the sensors on rides even when we weren't using FP+ and they often competed to use the MBs to open our hotel room door, something that would have never heppened in the past with a KTTW card that my wife or I would be carrying for them.

Even for adults, using the MBs to pay, room entry, etc is no different conceptually than using the KTTW card, but physically "feels" different and provides some differentiation from everyday life and other theme parks. Even getting the box with the MBs in the mail can create some excitement/positive anticipation. Again, it's a silly pointless distinction, but I wouldn't be surprised if for many guests this does release a few endorphins and cause them to get some subconscious enjoyment they might not otherwise have gotten. And create a somewhat more positive view of WDW that might cause them to return earlier or recommend it to a friend.

I'm skeptical that MBs will cause people to spend more on a significant level, but I think in aggregate if they are working well -- still a ways to go there -- they will help to keep WDW somewhat distinct (yes, in a positive way) in a more crowded theme park marketplace.

We'll see. Regardless of anything else, the tech infrastructure for WDW needed an overhaul so hopefully a good amount of money went to that.

 

[WDWDad13]

I don't mind lines - so long as they MOVE, these did not when something takes an hour now which used to take 30 seconds at most - yeah that's a regression and to avoid it I get to use smartphone!

Our touring style is not commando so generally went standby in the past with the odd fastpass if we wanted something like TSMM during day although generally we went to DHS for dinner and closed out day with TSMM late.

explain to the rest of us how a previous line now takes longer due to MM+, especially when fastpasses are/were used already?

I just returned from a 2 week trip... used a few FP+'s... most I did not... I didn't notice anything different about waits at all

 

[GrumpyFan]

I agree with that... and those first timers didn't always understand what a fastpass was either... so hopefully linking everything together (along with photopass/memory maker) will help them as well

the concern I see with some are the non-techies... not sure what to do if they don't have a mobile phone/app or are good online... I think the new educational materials they are mailing to homes will help a lot. I just got a box in the mail with the USB drive with information on what to do and how to get started and it's for my next trip 158 days away

Agreed with your agreement! First-timers and non-techies, or those without a smart phone will be a tricky segment to bring on board. I think Disney is betting on most everyone having access to a smart phone in the next year or two.

I don't know if it's necessary, but I wonder if they have researched the feasibility of renting or just loaning out smart phones/devices to guests visiting who don't have one? They could easily partner with one of the big carriers to do this, which would give that carrier a potential marketing target.

 

[ford91exploder]

The period between now and the 1st will be an excellent litmus test. I will say the two GR managers I spoke with stated/assured that extra staff would be hired for both GR and the front gates and kiosks, for what I am assuming were these very issues. Which to a degree cuts into the staff savings Disney was looking to gain, at least in the near future....

Disney added complexity where none was needed - the pre-planning bit is what made this a unmanageable monster. MB would have been a success if

- Left legacy rules in place
- Pre-planning limited to onsite access ie through Disney Internet/Concierge/GR
- made the MB a eFastpass - walk up mickey to mickey and get a return time - and optionally have it print your return time or SMS a time to your phone which would work even with dumb phones.

This would have still given onsite guests the ability to set up their FP's for their entire vacation once they arrive which would give them a substantial advantage.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Do be fair, I do think that for a first time/infrequent guest that the MBs will be a positive experience once the kinks are worked out and it runs smoothly all the time. It may seem stupid to us regular and more critical visitors, but the "experience" of using the bands and getting the micky head to turn green is "different" from a typical theme park experience and does help to differentiate WDW. I know my young sons loved wearing and using the MBs on our recent trip -- they would often put "mickey to mickey" at the sensors on rides even when we weren't using FP+ and they often competed to use the MBs to open our hotel room door, something that would have never heppened in the past with a KTTW card that my wife or I would be carrying for them.

Even for adults, using the MBs to pay, room entry, etc is no different conceptually than using the KTTW card, but physically "feels" different and provides some differentiation from everyday life and other theme parks. Even getting the box with the MBs in the mail can create some excitement/positive anticipation. Again, it's a silly pointless distinction, but I wouldn't be surprised if for many guests this does release a few endorphins and cause them to get some subconscious enjoyment they might not otherwise have gotten. And create a somewhat more positive view of WDW that might cause them to return earlier or recommend it to a friend.

Indeed, and I agree with you on several of your points. In fact, I wrote about several of them on my blog after our visit in October. The system could use several tweaks to make it better.

 

[WDWDad13]

Agreed with your agreement! First-timers and non-techies, or those without a smart phone will be a tricky segment to bring on board. I think Disney is betting on most everyone having access to a smart phone in the next year or two.

I don't know if it's necessary, but I wonder if they have researched the feasibility of renting or just loaning out smart phones/devices to guests visiting who don't have one? They could easily partner with one of the big carriers to do this, which would give that carrier a potential marketing target.

I think that's why they are installing FP+ kiosks... so people can do this who don't have phones. I think this is a good idea. They probably need to install some at each resort as well or even have the tv in your room linked to the internet with a keyboard to allow people to do it or check it from their room