MM+ Why we can't have nice things.

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
P&R development has been scaled back, and in most cases frozen, due to NextGen overruns. I'll let others reiterate what evidence is in the public domain since its Boxing Day and we have a house full.

The plenty of other things is the bare minimum or in some cases what was forced on TDO from Burbank. A few examples:

JC - six years late and needed before the canal leaked dry. No joke. The new deck a few years back was fast tracked when the neglected old deck actually rotted through.

PotC - mishmash of new effects that have major issues laid over 1973 infrastructure. Lighting that had to be shoehorned in. A damaged new boat fleet. And an audio system that's such a mix of 1973 and 2008 that numerous dead areas and mis matched speakers leave glaring audio holes and unbalanced BGM.

Splash - years of bare minimum neglect had made it a laughing stock. They had no choice to spend big or they could have potentially lost the building.

BTM - track worn and obsolete systems. The track will still need totally renewing along with most of the mountain since patching up will only do so much. See Anaheim in how to do it right. Show scenes and effects still not working.

CBR - technical success after years of neglect. Again close to loosing the attraction.

Diamond Horseshoe - the what? Oh. The seasonal QS building?

Liberty SQ Riverboat. The sole remaining moving attraction on ROI. Still a tug of power between keeping it open and saving money to moor it permenantly.

Haunted Mansion - excellent refurb, now with flawed Fastpass and queue layout and unnessecary, failing extra queue interactions.

Hall of Presidents - excellent refurb. Exterior was so neglected it partially collapsed during the refurb.

Small World - tangled toilets path routing now brings the traffic pinch point solely to the small world / pan corner. Worse traffic management area in the park.

Peter Pans Flight - still waiting for the 1992 DLP enhanced visuals let alone the newer - and newer still planned - Anaheim overhaul.

Snow Whites Scary Adventures - really.

FLE - not my call. Personally a fantastically themed area with two new good D tickets and a nice restraunt that the park dearly needed. Mermaid ride has multiple issues discussed elsewhere. I'll mention the cheaper electrical as opposed to mechanical ride system rotation device that malfunctions far too regularly.

Storybook Circus - not my call. Nor my thing so I'd be biased.

Space Mountain - discussed to death elsewhere. Budget slashed to bare minimum overhaul. Asbestos removal and skyway demolition also lumped into ride refurb budget to reduce available money even further. Track now in a real sorry state and asthetic overhaul - of what was possible with any remaining money - was a bandaid fix.

Tomorrowland stage - pushed through via entertainment not ops. Guest area lost to staff parking. New stage not WDI certified nor designed. Sound and light bleed into surrounding land theme.

Buzz Lightyear - where's the new guns? Still on hold?

Peoplemover - bare minimum. Damaged RVs. Failing drive system and PA. Theming actually less that before.

Carousel of Progress - bare minimum maintainence.

Tomorrowland Terrace - even when Cosmic Rays is a dozen or more people deep at each register - as you expect it to be at meal times during anything but the quietest times of year - remains closed. It used to be open year round when the park had less guests annually. For example.

Spectro - 'Nuff said.

MSEP - so worn and patched up there's a good chance it will not stand up to being shipped anywhere again.

Magic Memories and You / Celebrate the Magic - infrastructure installed to boost photopass sales. Failed so much that Disneyland photos were also used, taken that day and sent via the web. Budget to move Main Street projectors to inside buildings frozen so any moving around the roof or underneath the roof area during a show shakes the projection housings.

Wishes - reduced budget. The order from above was cut the number of shells used, or shorten the show.


This is purely off the top of my head in the park that's received the most love and charges the most (and constantly rising) admission price. We could talk about Epcot or DHS where the real problems are.

I'll mention Sorcerers as a diversionary C ticket equivalent. So I'm being fair. I won't mention A Pirates Adventure since those who work it have declared it rather less than successful.

So much for being brief. Oops..

^^^THIS^^^
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
I assume you had a completely positive experience when you used MM+?
my-disney-experience-server-is-busy.jpg
 

space42

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think there should be some kind of notation under each users avatar here displaying if they have actually used MM+ that is verifiable. It would eliminate who is knowledgeable and who is just jumping on the old internet bandwagon.\

Jimmy Thick- Much needed around here.

The date of your first visit would be much more useful. Someone who's first trip came after 1998 will have a very different perspective than someone who first visited in 1971.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
na not really... this forum wouldn't thrive as much without all the wild information we all make up to try to "prove" our point haha
Lord.... your list.... New bus paint schemes.... really?

Scrub anything that would have been called "regular" two decades ago.

Then scrub anything not yet happened.

Then scrub anything non MK specific for now. Just to be fair.

And amend anything with budget cuts or that was botched.

Actually do what you like. This is too funny.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
The date of your first visit would be much more useful. Someone who's first trip came after 1998 will have a very different perspective than someone who first visited in 1971.

they didn't exactly have as many things to manage in 1971 as they do in 2013
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
Quoting from The Right Stuff:

"You boys know what makes this bird go up? Funding makes this bird go up." "No bucks, no Buck Rogers."

Budget is king.

And if you ever think local management is not running their site exactly the way you want them to, you fire them and bring on someone who will.

WDW is not some mom-and-pop shop. It's a multi-billion dollar organization that's responsible for a good chunk of corporate profit. You bet your bottom dollar that Burbank is responsible for what happens there.

What happens in Orlando happens because, either directly through directives or indirectly through budget & annual corporate objectives, it's exactly what Burbank makes happen.

From that time in the space program the 'sharp pencil' boys were pushing unmanned space probes because they were cheaper. The manned space side pointed out that its hard to get public support for a robot. Replace this argument with infrastructure vs show and you have the problem with todays TWDC
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
The date of your first visit would be much more useful. Someone who's first trip came after 1998 will have a very different perspective than someone who first visited in 1971.

I've used MM+ and my first visit was in 1972. So, my opinion could only be considered less important than a 1971, MM+er. In fact, I've decided my opinion is so important, you'll have to pay to find out!
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
Lord.... your list.... New bus paint schemes.... really?

Scrub anything that would have been called regular two decades ago.

Then scrub anything not yet happened.

Then scrub anything non MK specific for now. Just to be fair.

AH and there you have it... just as I called it... you all would be ripping through my list of things Disney has added or changed this year. The argument (if you want to call it that) is some saying Disney is doing nothing, etc. etc. when in reality things are changing all the time
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
The funny thing is the EVERYTHING IS PERFECTLY PERFECT IN EVERY WAY AT DISNEY crowd would constantly crap on those who did use MM+ and still hated it... They would right away call them doomers and gloomers or haters... They would accuse them of actually not using the bands or FP+ or MM+... They would demand proof... Then, when called out, would whine and and moan they are being picked on...

The ones claiming to have used it and had a good experience with it never prove they actually used it, but then want others who didn't have a good experience to prove they used it...

And people wonder why they are called trolls and idiots...
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
how dare they do maintenance or SCHEDULED downtime.

still works better than the healthcare.gov site which is many billions beyond any Disney project
No. That Donald is a default error that you get, regardless of if it's maintenance or "scheduled" downtime.

You get it through the ADR system, you get it with the FP+ system, you get it all over the MDE website.

It pops up enough that for many people, if you just ask someone who used the MDE site "If they saw Donald." they'll know exactly what you are talking about. There are plenty of threads where this has been mentioned.
 

Captain Chaos

Well-Known Member
how dare they do maintenance or SCHEDULED downtime.

still works better than the healthcare.gov site which is many billions beyond any Disney project
Actually, I did use the healthcare.gov website this week, and it worked flawless... much more flawless than MM+ does...
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
MM+ is rooted in basic technology upgrades that have been needed for years. Even if they didn't spend the more than 2 billion on it that they are spending, at minimum, at least 1 billion in tech upgrades was needed to begin with ..
To lump ignored needs for infrastructure upgrades until it's too late and then to lump them into a P&R guest initiative is criminal.

Corporate is corporate.
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
AH and there you have it... just as I called it... you all would be ripping through my list of things Disney has added or changed this year. The argument (if you want to call it that) is some saying Disney is doing nothing, etc. etc. when in reality things are changing all the time
Indeed. Bamboo growing and the like....
 

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