Misson Space ?

[Tom]

I love reading all the arguments, then giving my soapbox, judgemental, hateful responses

Mission:Space has not killed anyone, just like guns don't kill anyone. People kill people - period. My 380 will not kill anyone until I load it, chamber it, aim it, and pull the trigger. There are no exceptions, unless you substitute "me" with "someone else". Similarly, Mission:Space can't kill anyone - people simply subject themselves to what it has to offer, which is a series of forces similar to those astronauts experience in space (and none of them have died due to those forces, or from their time in the simulator).

In this case, a child died while riding (or shortly after riding) Mission:Space. The only two facts are this: he was 4 years old and at least 44" tall. His mother made the conscious decision to let him ride, along with herself, and we can only presume that she read each and every warning in the queue. With all this being said, the child still died - which is sad and tragic.

However, not one person on here has the right to say that Mission:Space killed the boy, or that it should be shut down, or that it is a dangerous ride. Everything is relative. Mission:Space is 100% safe and poses no threat or effect on many people - but then there are people like me who can get nautious and barf :hurl: if a common building elevator makes a sudden, unexpected move - and then there are people who have pre-existing ailments or other life-threatening ailments that they may or may not know about. Every ride, from Small World to Mission:Space can have different effects on every single body.

I said this earlier, but this child could have very easily passed out and died on ToT, or Big Thunder, or Splash, or Pirates, or even Small World - which creates no forces on the body whatsoever. It just so happened that he was riding the "controversial" Mission:Space when it happened, and thus everyone is quick to blame the ride and WDW for killing this boy.

We can NOT blame the ride because it is in 100% perfect working order - which is obvious because millions of people ride it without dying. We can NOT blame "mom" because we don't know what she knew about her son before he rode it. She may be the worst parent in the world, or she may be the best parent in the world - either way, her son died on the ride. I read warnings all the time, but that's all they are: WARNINGS. They don't forbid you from doing things, just warn you of possible adverse conditions resulting from the participation. Unfortunately this boy succombed to the adverse conditions of this ride - or just coincidentally succombed to a pre-existing ailment that took his life while riding M:S.

Again, my condolences to the family during this tough time - but I wish everyone would lighten up and stop arguing about who's to blame. More than likely (as in MOST incidents in life) NOBODY is to blame. Sometimes poo happens.

 

[lilphil6487]

ok i just want to let people know that my last post, i didnt mean to upset anyone or stir up trouble, it is just that i am mad that they are trying to put the blame on disney basically. and also i am only 18, i didnt lose a child. it was my best friend's little brother and i was very close to the family.

 

[maxime29]

Mom, I like your points earlier. However I have to disagree about why the incident is newsworthy. Anything like the boy's death that happens in Disney, a place of happiness and fun, will make the news. Most people will take the story out of context and immediately blame the ride as the cause of death, especially since we still don't know much about the boy (other than he was 4 years old and above the minimum height requirement) and any previous medical conditions.

 

[Shaman]

Not once did I say or imply that anyone should be jumping for joy over this tragic occurrence especially the mother. I am sure she is feeling exactly what you said as I sure would be. But personally I would be accountable for it, and I wouldn't expect it to infringe on anyone else.

You did IMPLY it, because you SAID parents have to be "responsible and accountable", implying that the parents in this case weren't being neither. Perhaps I misunderstood.

So why should the ride be in question? And not the decision to get on the ride? The push seems to be to make a company responsible for every possible out come, but then at the same time we should not expect a parent to be able to expect/detect/protect every possible situation our children can be exposed to. So how on Earth is it even close to fair to expect a company to do what we can't?

What if a parent didn't know their child had a health problem? What if the child had been on M:S before? What if he's been on far more intense rides than M:S? We don't know the detail...yet..to question or blame either the ride or the parents...

But then should the parade be shut-down because it quite possibly had an adverse effect on a child?

Should the parents be hauled to jail for making their child sit there and watch?

We may not always be able to control our bodies, but we sure are responsible for the direction they go!

Do we? Isn't the direction we go a response to the enviroment around us?

---

I'll be the first one to say parents need to be responsible for their kids. I'll be the first to say people need to take responsiblity for their own actions...but the fact is, we don't know enough information about this case to make assumptions and/or accusations...YET...

 

[nibblesandbits]

I love reading all the arguments, then giving my soapbox, judgemental, hateful responses

Mission:Space has not killed anyone, just like guns don't kill anyone. People kill people - period. My 380 will not kill anyone until I load it, chamber it, aim it, and pull the trigger. There are no exceptions, unless you substitute "me" with "someone else". Similarly, Mission:Space can't kill anyone - people simply subject themselves to what it has to offer, which is a series of forces similar to those astronauts experience in space (and none of them have died due to those forces, or from their time in the simulator).

In this case, a child died while riding (or shortly after riding) Mission:Space. The only two facts are this: he was 4 years old and at least 44" tall. His mother made the conscious decision to let him ride, along with herself, and we can only presume that she read each and every warning in the queue. With all this being said, the child still died - which is sad and tragic.

However, not one person on here has the right to say that Mission:Space killed the boy, or that it should be shut down, or that it is a dangerous ride. Everything is relative. Mission:Space is 100% safe and poses no threat or effect on many people - but then there are people like me who can get nautious and barf :hurl: if a common building elevator makes a sudden, unexpected move - and then there are people who have pre-existing ailments or other life-threatening ailments that they may or may not know about. Every ride, from Small World to Mission:Space can have different effects on every single body.

I said this earlier, but this child could have very easily passed out and died on ToT, or Big Thunder, or Splash, or Pirates, or even Small World - which creates no forces on the body whatsoever. It just so happened that he was riding the "controversial" Mission:Space when it happened, and thus everyone is quick to blame the ride and WDW for killing this boy.

We can NOT blame the ride because it is in 100% perfect working order - which is obvious because millions of people ride it without dying. We can NOT blame "mom" because we don't know what she knew about her son before he rode it. She may be the worst parent in the world, or she may be the best parent in the world - either way, her son died on the ride. I read warnings all the time, but that's all they are: WARNINGS. They don't forbid you from doing things, just warn you of possible adverse conditions resulting from the participation. Unfortunately this boy succombed to the adverse conditions of this ride - or just coincidentally succombed to a pre-existing ailment that took his life while riding M:S.

Again, my condolences to the family during this tough time - but I wish everyone would lighten up and stop arguing about who's to blame. More than likely (as in MOST incidents in life) NOBODY is to blame. Sometimes poo happens.

Very well thought out post. And you're right, sometimes, poo just happens.

 

[ChrisH9339]

I was on Mission Space last night and I swear the preshow was much louder than it has been in the past. Perhaps Disney cranked the audio up in an effort to get more people to pay attention to it?

 

[Sir Hiss527]

It took me a while...to read this thread. I was listening to the local radio station in Orlando Z88.3, when I heard this news. The announcer said "Yesterday a boy at the Walt Disney World resort died on a attraction." As soon as he said that I said "Mission:Space" I just knew it had to be that right...cuz with all the problems with what the attraction does. I am very saddened by this news. But lets not jump to conclusions. Let's wait till the autopsy results come back, and then we will know what happend.

 

[saltmom1]

This is a 4 year old child. Who would take a 4 year old on that ride ?

 

[jmicro59]

This is a 4 year old child. Who would take a 4 year old on that ride ?

I would take a 4 year old on MS if he/she meet the height requirements and here’s why, I am not a mechanical engineer and I don’t understand how G forces affect the human body but there were probably hundreds of those type of individuals who do understand engineering and ride affects on the human body that built and tested MS. And I do not think they would intentionally place any of us in harms way and from what I understand requirements for height or age of an attraction rider are set 15%-20% above what the actual threat threshold is. As a mechanical engineer friend informed me everything that is built to spec has a buffer zone for improved safety. Nothing built is 100% safe and it never will be. This poor child died doing something that was supposed to be fun and thrilling with his mother by his side and something went horribly wrong. Every tragedy needs at the very least two things to happen to have a tragedy occur. Lets speculate that the boy had eaten a few popsicles a little bit before he went on MS thus raising his blood sugar level causing his blood pressure to rise and now combine that with standing in the hot sun or standing in the heat while waiting to get on MS and while he was in line his body processed the sugar to cool his body but since it was hot out this day his body needed more energy thus lowering his blood sugar level and bringing down his blood pressure as the body was searching for an energy source. So by the time he was strapping himself in on MS his blood pressure may have already reduced and when the ride started his heart could not generate the blood flow needed to keep the boy alive. Now I am not a doctor or have any medical training but this seems feasible to me as I have gotten very light headed from having low blood sugar. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Tom]

I would take a 4 year old on MS if he/she meet the height requirements and here’s why, I am not a mechanical engineer and I don’t understand how G forces affect the human body but there were probably hundreds of those type of individuals who do understand engineering and ride affects on the human body that built and tested MS. And I do not think they would intentionally place any of us in harms way and from what I understand requirements for height or age of an attraction rider are set 15%-20% above what the actual threat threshold is. As a mechanical engineer friend informed me everything that is built to spec has a buffer zone for improved safety. Nothing built is 100% safe and it never will be. This poor child died doing something that was supposed to be fun and thrilling with his mother by his side and something went horribly wrong. Every tragedy needs at the very least two things to happen to have a tragedy occur. Lets speculate that the boy had eaten a few popsicles a little bit before he went on MS thus raising his blood sugar level causing his blood pressure to rise and now combine that with standing in the hot sun or standing in the heat while waiting to get on MS and while he was in line his body processed the sugar to cool his body but since it was hot out this day his body needed more energy thus lowering his blood sugar level and bringing down his blood pressure as the body was searching for an energy source. So by the time he was strapping himself in on MS his blood pressure may have already reduced and when the ride started his heart could not generate the blood flow needed to keep the boy alive. Now I am not a doctor or have any medical training but this seems feasible to me as I have gotten very light headed from having low blood sugar. Just my 2 cents.

Next to mine:animwink: , this is the most sensible post in this thread :lol: !

Honestly though, this simply gives more good reinforcement to the fact that his death was simply due to a set of coincidental circumstances. The semi-medical analogy makes perfect sense - as I too get light headed when my blood sugar is low. It may not have been the case here, but it's an option, just like 10 million other scenarios are options.

The statements regarding the design of the ride are 100% true as well. ALL engineering designs include a minimum safety factor of some sort (usually 10%). Disney would not devote millions of dollars to a ride that might purposefully kill someone - that's common sense.

M:S is a safe ride, for those whose bodies are able to ride it. It is up to each individual to make the decision on whether or not to take the risk and see if the ride kills them. I know for a fact that M:S will make me VERY ill - and I have never ridden it. I have horrible motion sickness, and thus, I heed the warnings and avoid rides like M:S and RnRC. I don't think my grandfather should ride Big Thunder Mountain (what most of us consider a tame roller coaster) because he's prone to mild strokes and cranial blood clots - it would be stupid of him to ride anything that warns against riding to those in poor health.

We've beaten this horse to death - sheesh

 

[The Mom]

We've beaten this horse to death - sheesh

THAT is the most intelligent comment in this thread! :sohappy: :kiss:

 

[Shaman]

THAT is the most intelligent comment in this thread! :sohappy: :kiss:

 

[wishiwzthere]

The mother stated in a newspaper article that her son was "rigid" in his seat before the ride began. The child was obviously frightended before the ride began. We must take into consideration that most 4 year old children do not differentiate between fantasy and reality, especially at WDW. It's there that everything is fantasy. The child believed he was going into space. The fear of the unknown could have played a huge part in this unfortunate tragedy. I personally would not put a child of 4 on MS, due to the child's possible misconception of reality and fantasy. I do not think MS should be closed, it is a wonderful experience, a great ride, but not an experience for very young children. I agree the child obviously had an underlying unknown medical problem.

 

[peter11435]

The mother stated in a newspaper article that her son was "rigid" in his seat before the ride began. The child was obviously frightended before the ride began. We must take into consideration that most 4 year old children do not differentiate between fantasy and reality, especially at WDW. It's there that everything is fantasy. The child believed he was going into space. The fear of the unknown could have played a huge part in this unfortunate tragedy. I personally would not put a child of 4 on MS, due to the child's possible misconception of reality and fantasy. I do not think MS should be closed, it is a wonderful experience, a great ride, but not an experience for very young children. I agree the child obviously had an underlying unknown medical problem.

Actually the mother never said anything in a newspaper article. That statement was taken incorrectly from the police report. The mother actually said that she noticed the boy was rigid about 3/4 into the ride. This is an example of the media bending the facts.

 

[wdwjmp239]

Would we see you out front picketing if they did close it?

I did Mission: SPACE not too long ago and I hate to say this (I'm actually quite embarassed), but I got sick about 30 mins after I got off the ride. It ruined my day to the point where we had to go back to the hotel. But, later that night, I felt mucho better. I think it was the combination of the heat, humidity, and the stress from Mission: SPACE.

Next time I do M:S.....It'll be in the winter

 

[Yen_Sid1]

Here's an article from today's Orlando Sentinel about Ride Safety:


Experts: Thrill rides pose little danger
But critics contend not enough is known about the physical impact of such rides.
By Christopher Boyd and Adrian G. Uribarri
Sentinel Staff Writers

June 19, 2005

Amusement-park rides can be terrifying. In fact, scores of roller-coaster enthusiasts would be sorely disappointed if they weren't.

But many medical doctors and researchers dismiss allegations that the physical forces the rides exert are dangerous.

Though some rides can go faster than 100 mph, the physical stress they put on the body is not very great -- less in some cases than everyday experiences, such as dropping into a chair.

The worst aftereffect for most thrill seekers is a spinning head and a racing heart -- not nearly enough to keep them away. Rides are designed to produce the illusion of risk, and customers say they love the sensation.

"Anyone who gets on a ride like that doesn't feel very safe," said Jack Oleary, a New Jersey tourist, as he emerged from the Dueling Dragons ride at Universal's Islands of Adventure last week. "We always think about what ifs. It's the thrill of the ride that makes you come back."

And come back they have -- by the millions. Since the 15th century, when Russians were enticed by the thrill of riding blocks of ice down wooden ramps, to today, when coaster fans chase speeds that exceed highway limits, the allure of fear mixed with excitement hasn't waned.

Though amusement-park rides seldom hurt anyone, questions about their safety persist. Critics say that not enough is known about the impact the spitfire twists and turns, dives and accelerations have on people's bodies, and especially their brains.

Amusement-park operators and some doctors who have closely studied thrill rides say there is little to fear. They say just a fraction of people who take rides at theme and amusement parks suffer problems, which may or may not have been caused by the rides themselves.

"If everything is functioning properly, there is no reason to worry about taking a ride," said Dr. Douglas Smith, director of the Center for Brain Injury and Repair at the University of Pennsylvania. "If you are really worried about brain injury, use your seat belt on the drive to the amusement park."

Smith, co-author of a 2002 article titled "G-Forces, Roller Coasters, and Brain Trauma: On the Wrong Track?" said that more than 1.5 million Americans suffer brain traumas each year, but roller coasters don't even make the long list of causes.

"We know a lot of people who have car accidents and injure their brains," Smith said. "But how many people do you know who have received a brain injury on a roller-coaster ride?"

Amusement and theme-park rides can alter gravitational forces, commonly called G-forces. A roller coaster increases the pull of gravity on a body as the ride races through its course, but Smith said the increases are short and the G-forces aren't typically dangerous.

In comparison, according to Popular Mechanics magazine, a 1990s study by the medical journal Spine found that everyday movements can subject the body to more G's -- 10.4 G's, for instance, when you plop down in a chair versus 4 G's from riding some amusement-park attractions.

Disney World's Mission: Space, which made headlines last week because a 4-year-old died after collapsing on the attraction, spins riders in a giant centrifuge that subjects them to 2 G's for a brief period.

Harold Hudson, an amusement-park consultant and a former vice president for engineering with Six Flags Theme Parks, said that even as new rides move faster and rise taller than earlier ones, they are designed with greater precision.

"The reason we are able to build taller and faster rides that aren't more dangerous than old rides is the improved technology," Hudson said. "We can design a roller coaster on a computer and run its paces. We know all the forces that will be exerted at every second before it is even built."

Hudson said computer-assisted manufacturing techniques and improved materials also add to safety and reliability.

Rides differ. The ones at Orlando's theme parks, which are designed for family vacationers, are generally slower and not as steep as ones at conventional amusement parks, where speeds can reach into the 80s, 90s and even exceed 100 mph. None of the 10 fastest roller coasters is in Florida.

But the amusement industry, which for the most part opposes increased government oversight, said that faster rides don't equate with less safe rides. They say the industry follows strict design standards that consider the physiological effects that rides will have on passengers.

"As rides have evolved, the sophistication of the safety systems has developed," said Dennis Spiegel, president of International Theme Park Services in Ohio. "The evolution won't stop. It's what the people want, and it's what the theme parks want to deliver."

Christopher Boyd can be reached at cboyd@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5723. Adrian G. Uribarri can be reached at 407-420-5240 or auribarri@orlandosentinel.com.

 

[Gepettotrevor]

Yes b/c there was nothing wrong with the ride

 

[626]

My first trip to Epcot after Mission: Space opened I got a FastPass for it, waited in line to ride then afterward used the FastPass to ride again right after. That was a big mistake as it made my wife and I rather sick after going twice in a row like that. Now I only go on it once a trip and even after just the one time I still leave there with that feeling in my stomach. As for closing it down, I see no reason to. I do feel they should raise the height requirement. I am not an expert on childrens heights, but if I knew they were letting 4-year-olds onto M:S I would have said that is a mistake that they would be too young for it no matter how tall they are. But don't close it, that's just silly! Raise the height requirement

 

[Tom]

My first trip to Epcot after Mission: Space opened I got a FastPass for it, waited in line to ride then afterward used the FastPass to ride again right after. That was a big mistake as it made my wife and I rather sick after going twice in a row like that. Now I only go on it once a trip and even after just the one time I still leave there with that feeling in my stomach. As for closing it down, I see no reason to. I do feel they should raise the height requirement. I am not an expert on childrens heights, but if I knew they were letting 4-year-olds onto M:S I would have said that is a mistake that they would be too young for it no matter how tall they are. But don't close it, that's just silly! Raise the height requirement

Height requirements are set based on engineering design. They determine that people of that height should be able to ride safely without falling out of the ride vehicle. There is no consideration for age when any ride designer determines the height requirement to be posted.

There are 40-year-olds that are "vertically challenged" and there are 3-yr-olds that can exceed 44" - so making the height requirement taller will only prevent people from riding who may be in perfect health or of "appropriate" age to ride.

 

[snoopi_grl]

The kid was tall for a 4 year old.. maybe they need an age limit?