Mission: Space tragedy

Number_6

Well-Known Member
Keyser Soze said:
Also if your the type of person that thinks they'll be "scared stiff" in a situation like this, maybe you shouldn't be working a job that may require you use CPR. It's one thing to take a CPR course thinking maybe someday you'll need it but it's another to take it knowing that the chances you will face a situation like this in your job is very high.

Mind you, there are alot of jobs out there that leave a good chance of you having to perform CPR. They aren't always ones that you might think of right away, though. Bartenders, for example, if they receive proper training are generally trained in CPR. When coming up with a list of top 10 jobs that you might need to know CPR, you will not always think of Bartender right away. You would thing things like Emergency Services, athletics jobs, etc. A bartender or waiter/waitress might not always spring to mind right away. By the same token, if you go to work at Disney, you might not think immediately about the possibility that you would need to perform CPR. There is a difference between taking a job where you know full well you will definitely have to perform CPR(such as EMS) and taking a job where you have a chance, but it's not a sure thing that you will have to(such as Disney).
 

swincha

New Member
cru5h said:
I don't think I would have bored my 4 year old with a day at Epcot, but maybe the sister was older and it was more her cup o' tea than his. While many adults and older kids may love Epcot, it's truly not on the top list of exciting themeparks for the little ones. Animal Kingdom and Magic Kingdom, yes.

.

my children are 5 and 8 and loved epcot and loved the countries. we had to leave after a 1/2 day due to a stomach ache and they wanted to go back on our off day so we did. the kidkot and characters in the countries has made epcot more kid friendly. plus they liked the shows also. we really were not there for the rides but we did go on a few
 

swincha

New Member
Now I also read today that Disney employees did in fact try CPR, I know previously I had read that they did not know how to perform CPR. Either way, if the Disney employees did not know CPR/perform it, Disney needs to make this a mandatory requirement for working at their attractions""

i thought he was unconscious? if his heart was not beating then yes cpr and they have the aed machines that talk you through using the machine. i can't imagine everyone being trained in cpr. they are not lifeguards.
 

DisneySaint

Well-Known Member
Keyser Soze said:
I know you all love Disney, as do I, but when something like this happens you cannot immediately start pointing fingers at anyone but Disney.

Why does a finger need to be point at anyone right now?
 

dr_teeth90210

Active Member
Keyser Soze said:
I've read through most of the posts made on this subject and honestly some of you need to take a reality check...
I know you all love Disney, as do I, but when something like this happens you cannot immediately start pointing fingers at anyone but Disney. For somone to say the parents were irresponsible or not thinking for letting a 4 year old go on a ride is really ridiculous. The boy met the requirements to ride MS, so in no way at all are the parents at fault. Whether or not you'd let your 4 year old ride is regardless, it does not make you a better or worse parent. All that guests at a park like Disney have to go by when riding attractions are the warnings and the ride requirements. Now most of the warnings for every ride that does anything other than sit still are the same and most people don't pay much attention to them. Even if the parents did read into the ride being quite thrilling I'm sure if they saw any symptoms on the Warning Posters (Back, Heart, Breathing Problems etc.) that their child had, they would not have taken him.
To everyone jumping to the immediate conclusion he had a prior medical conditon, I saw on the news today (I live in Orlando) that the autopsy revealed no previous or unknown conditions and failed to produce a cause of death (Link to CNN story http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/14/disney.death.ap/). Essentially you did what you don't want other people to do, jump to a conclusion.
Now I also read today that Disney employees did in fact try CPR, I know previously I had read that they did not know how to perform CPR. Either way, if the Disney employees did not know CPR/perform it, Disney needs to make this a mandatory requirement for working at their attractions.
Some people have said the 90 seconds that supposedly passed on the emergency call was not that long for them to start to direct them to do CPR.....The sooner CPR is performed, the better chance of revival, so 90 seconds when somone is not breathing is a HUGE amount of time.
Also if your the type of person that thinks they'll be "scared stiff" in a situation like this, maybe you shouldn't be working a job that may require you use CPR. It's one thing to take a CPR course thinking maybe someday you'll need it but it's another to take it knowing that the chances you will face a situation like this in your job is very high.
The point of my post is, things like this will happen at amusement parks. I just think park employees must be prepared for the worse and be able to act immediately. Who knows if the boy could have been saved or not had CPR been performed earlier, Disney just needs to make sure that in the future if (and when) an event like this occurs, their castmembers are ready.
I'd just like to make it clear before I get flamed to hell that in no way am I blaming the castmembers or Disney for this death. I'm sure the employees did all they were capable of doing.
My prayers go out to the family and friends of the young boy.

Well said. Welcome to the boards.
 

Woody13

New Member
Keyser Soze said:
Now I also read today that Disney employees did in fact try CPR, I know previously I had read that they did not know how to perform CPR. Either way, if the Disney employees did not know CPR/perform it, Disney needs to make this a mandatory requirement for working at their attractions.
Some people have said the 90 seconds that supposedly passed on the emergency call was not that long for them to start to direct them to do CPR.....The sooner CPR is performed, the better chance of revival, so 90 seconds when somone is not breathing is a HUGE amount of time.
CPR only works for a slim minority of accident and injury victims. The National Academy of Sciences has routinely questioned its use. Leonard Cobb held the world's first mass citizen training in CPR in Seattle, Washington called Medic 2 back in 1972. There is no doubt that CPR is effective under the right circumstances, however, the number of people saved by citizen CPR efforts since 1972 has been very small. Training all Disney CM's in CPR is not the answer.
 

Iakona

Member
Keyser Soze said:
To everyone jumping to the immediate conclusion he had a prior medical conditon, I saw on the news today (I live in Orlando) that the autopsy revealed no previous or unknown conditions and failed to produce a cause of death (Link to CNN story http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/14/disney.death.ap/). Essentially you did what you don't want other people to do, jump to a conclusion..

No one has claimed to "know" that the boy had a prior condition. We have speculated that he may have had one (likely an undiagnosed prior condition) because the ride did not malfunction. The autopsy you mention was a preliminary autopsy that revealed no cause (including trauma) that could be determined without more in depth tests. Therefore additional tests are being done and possibly the reults (in 4-12 weeks) will provide more clarity.

Also, in several articles pediatric specialists have said that a young person's body is more conditioned to handle a ride like this than an adults and that a ride of this type would not cause a healthy boy to die. At this point the information we have points to the ride not being the reason for this tragedy.

The media reports have been somewhat scattered. The CPR response for one has been reported differently. The sequence of events have been different is some stories as well.

My heart goes out to this family and I will not criticize them for allowing their son to ride MS. I know from personal experience that there are many "pre-existing"conditions that go undetectable. A good friend of mine in high school(who was an athlete all her life) went to sleep one evening and never woke up; she had a pre-existing heart disease that was found by the autopsy.
My favorite pro-football player (who by the way received very thorough physicals every year) had a stroke soon after winning the Super Bowl. Another pre-existing condition that went undetected even with all the medical attention a pro-athlete gets.
 

Halfling418

New Member
This is so upsetting.

While in line for the M:S, I was freaked out by the number of warnings and such (mostly cause I'm kind of claustrophobic), but when I got off the ride, I thought to myself that they were just trying to be extra-safe...It was loads of fun and not nearly as intense as I thought it could be...heck, I went on a cheap fair ride that was far more intense(the only ride on which I ever have gotten sick). I thought it was rather tame; I could turn my head to the side to talk to my sister.

The death came as a shock to me. I cannot believe it could be anything but a prexisting condition. Something similar happed at my college this year--a girl died while running track.

When I first heard of the incident, I felt no anger twoards the parents or towards Disney, only sadness. Things like this happen all the time, but that doesn't make hearing about them any easier.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
HagansMommie said:
I was discussing the incedent with DH earlier and he said that there are buttons you can push to stop the ride. Is this true? Or did he just think it was to stop it. He also said the CM's can hear you in the vehicles. I'm asking you guys, because alot of times he assumes things are one way, when actually they are not. Will someone please clarify this for me.

He's getting Mission Space mixed up with Cyberspace Mountain at DisneyQuest. Mission Space has no way for riders to stop the ride, and there is no monitoring of the guests inside the capsules. Obviously the ride system itself is monitored, but not the 160 individual riders.
 

MattPSU

New Member
911 Call

A previous poster mentioned a news report which stated that "there is confusion and possibly conflict" between what was said on the 911 call and what was reported to the sheriff's office. Specifically: "It appears that during the 911 call, Disney workers are saying they are not performing CPR and that they may not know how, even though they indicate on the sheriff's office report hours after the boy died that they are CPR trained."

I have listened to the call, and it seems pretty clear that the initial employee (the one on the phone) does not know CPR. However, as he begins to follow the 911 operator's instructions to treat the boy, another employee who IS CPR trained arrives and begins to perform CPR (but this part is kinda muffled). Also, they apparently ask the mother if he has any medical conditions and she says no. I'm bewildered, therefore, as to why the news report above says what it does. I'm curious to know if this is how others interpret the call...?

BTW - the 911 call is on WFTV's website in mp3 format : http://www.wftv.com/news/4611813/detail.html

Follow the "Listen..." link at the top of the story.

-Matt
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
MattPSU said:
I have listened to the call, and it seems pretty clear that the initial employee (the one on the phone) does not know CPR. However, as he begins to follow the 911 operator's instructions to treat the boy, another employee who IS CPR trained arrives and begins to perform CPR (but this part is kinda muffled). Also, they apparently ask the mother if he has any medical conditions and she says no. I'm bewildered, therefore, as to why the news report above says what it does. I'm curious to know if this is how others interpret the call...?

BTW - the 911 call is on WFTV's website in mp3 format : http://www.wftv.com/news/4611813/detail.html

Follow the "Listen..." link at the top of the story.

-Matt

I interpert the same as you. the CM making the call is not doing CPR, but another CM is. That matches what is said by the police report. It also seems that the paramedics arrive on scene within 4 minutes of the call.

Just a note for anyone who may be about to listen to that audio, it is distressing, and I think it should not be in the public domain.
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
From The Orlando Sentinel:

Experts differ on how Disney should handle tragedy of child's death


By Christopher Boyd | Sentinel Staff Writer
Posted June 16, 2005

As Walt Disney World deals with the death of a 4-year-old boy on its Mission: Space ride, marketing experts were divided on what message the theme park should send its customers concerning the tragedy.

Walt Disney Co. has said little about Daudi Bamuwamye's unexplained death at Epcot on Monday. The company expressed concern for the child's family while continuing to operate the popular ride during what for Disney World is the busiest time of the year.

Disney spokeswoman Kim Prunty said the company hasn't been actively promoting the ride, so it doesn't have to decide whether to alter its advertising campaign. She said the theme park's current promotional campaign, the Happiest Celebration on Earth, centers on other rides.

"With an incident of this nature, we would pull our advertising," Prunty said, "but we are focused on the Happiest Celebration on Earth and newer attractions associated with it. There isn't a lot of advertising in the market associated with Mission: Space."

Adam Hanft, chief executive of the Hanft Unlimited marketing firm in New York, was critical of Disney's public reaction.

"The company's traditional position is probably to withhold judgment until the facts are in," said Hanft, who specializes in issues related to corporate brands. "I think they should do just the opposite. I would shut the ride down."

Hanft said that, if an autopsy finds the ride had nothing to do with the child's death, Disney could reopen it. But he said continuing to operate now sends the wrong message.

"Consumers want transparency from the companies they deal with," he said. "They want a company to react like a parent would. People want compassion and good common sense."

Disney shut down Mission: Space late afternoon Monday, inspected the ride and reopened it Tuesday morning.

The entertainment giant also issued a two-paragraph statement expressing sympathy for the boy's family and stating that nearly 9 million people have taken the Mission: Space ride without incident.

Barbara Kahn, a marketing professor at the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School, said a strong sign of concern from Disney is crucial.

"Disney means safety and fun," Kahn said. "Of course the company is concerned for this child. If something happened to a child at your house, you wouldn't say that the house caused whatever it is. But you would immediately express your concern."

Kahn said the classic case of corporate concern came in 1982 when someone put cyanide in Tylenol containers, killing eight customers. Manufacturer Johnson & Johnson pulled 22 million bottles from store shelves, costing the company $100 million.

She said the Disney ride and the Tylenol case are dramatically different. But she said Johnson & Johnson showed its concern with its response, setting a tone for other companies faced with traumatic events. She said they need to show compassion for their customers.

Abe Pizam, dean of the University of Central Florida College of Hospitality Management, said Disney did the correct thing in issuing a statement of concern for the family.

"Most experts in this area would say that, after the initial apologies, if it wasn't an issue of safety, you leave it alone," he said. "You hope that people forget. The frequency of incidents like this is very, very low."

Pizam said that, if the ride were the problem, the response should be direct.

"If there was something that didn't work properly, then the response is different," he said. "If there wasn't a malfunction, however, why close the ride?"

Christopher Boyd can be reached at cboyd@orlandosentinel.com or 407-420-5723.

<!-- <jmpto></jmpto><jmpto></jmpto><jmphed1></jmphed1><hed>Experts differ on how Disney should handle tragedy of child's death</hed> -->
<CITE id=copyright>Copyright © 2005, Orlando Sentinel
</CITE>
 

wannab@dis

Well-Known Member
wdwmagic said:
I interpert the same as you. the CM making the call is not doing CPR, but another CM is. That matches what is said by the police report. It also seems that the paramedics arrive on scene within 4 minutes of the call.

Just a note for anyone who may be about to listen to that audio, it is distressing, and I think it should not be in the public domain.

Ok, I listened to the call and there is only one way to interpret the call. The CM on the phone talking to the dispatcher did NOT know CPR. The dispatcher was about to give him directions on how to do CPR when another CM showed up that was trained. I'm not sure how any of the media outlets can do a story that says there is confusion over these details. It's fairly plain what happens and it matches the police report.

One personal note, the CM that made the call stayed calm and handled himself VERY well. I want to say a big THANK YOU to all the CMs that work hard in the parks. This incident shows the training and the CMs willingness to go the extra mile.
 

angelofitaly69

New Member
911 and CPR

90 seconds is not a very long time to pass. Weather or not the CM knew CPR or not isn't the question in my mind. When they first called 911 did the child have a heart beat? If so rescue breathing should have been started. A child's heart can beat for approx 5-8 mins after they stop breathing. Once thier heart stops beating then CPR would be right to do.

I do agree that CMs should be CPR trained. But as most people on the boards have said, you don't use it everyday. It is very stressful to have some one go down and try to remember everything from a class that was 6 or 12 months ago. CPR is what we call a time buyer until an AED or heart meds can be accessed.
 

Shaman

Well-Known Member
wannab@dis said:
Ok, I listened to the call and there is only one way to interpret the call. The CM on the phone talking to the dispatcher did NOT know CPR. The dispatcher was about to give him directions on how to do CPR when another CM showed up that was trained. I'm not sure how any of the media outlets can do a story that says there is confusion over these details. It's fairly plain what happens and it matches the police report.

One personal note, the CM that made the call stayed calm and handled himself VERY well. I want to say a big THANK YOU to all the CMs that work hard in the parks. This incident shows the training and the CMs willingness to go the extra mile.

I agree...its seems like the media was trying to spin this against Disney...I haven't seen strong evidence to support the stories...
 

S_Grise

New Member
Iakona said:
No one has claimed to "know" that the boy had a prior condition. We have speculated that he may have had one (likely an undiagnosed prior condition) because the ride did not malfunction. The autopsy you mention was a preliminary autopsy that revealed no cause (including trauma) that could be determined without more in depth tests. Therefore additional tests are being done and possibly the reults (in 4-12 weeks) will provide more clarity.

Also, in several articles pediatric specialists have said that a young person's body is more conditioned to handle a ride like this than an adults and that a ride of this type would not cause a healthy boy to die. At this point the information we have points to the ride not being the reason for this tragedy.
Thank you. Exactly the point I was going to make.
 

rmforney

Member
Groan....

:mad:

WDBO, the local (Orlando) ABC News radio affiliate had a local lawyer on. I missed his name, but apparently this guy has made a living suing Disney. His comment about this (I kid you not): “Disney should pay millions to this little boy’s family; it’s just part of the cost of doing business…”


I have nothing against lawyers but I have major issues with sharks like this. Disney has not, nor is likely to be found at fault in this…
 

1disneydood

Active Member
This topic has been beaten to heck and back and back again.

I'll state something I thought about, as carefully as possible.

How many people on the globe pass away every day from natural circumstances? How many children on the globe pass away every day due to natural causes? And how many people including children visit WDW every day? As sad as it is, and if the ride is not the cause, then statisticly and VERY UNFORTUNATELY it isn't a far stretch to have this happen here. We are not under a protective forcefield when we enter WDW property. Do you know for a fact where you'll be when it's your time? I truly believe that if the ride is not to blame, then this tragedy is not preventable and will not be preventable. It could have just been his time, maybe the good Lord (yes I said it) felt a reason to take him while he was having the time of his life. I wouldn't mind my last memory to be one of great joy and thrill. This life is just the crud we go through till we find happiness.

Was that too harsh? I tried to put it as delicate as possible. No disrespect to those involved was intended.
 

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