• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

Marc Davis Fan

Well-Known Member
I doubt there are any plans to remove or reroute Sunset.
Right, of course not. I was referring to the thematic / guest experience problems that would result from creating a new route directly to the RnRC courtyard or the Sunset Ranch area.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BMP

Purduevian

Well-Known Member
Advertisement
DHS is obviously not designed to handle the crowds MK is capable of. But could the demand to visit DHS surpass MK? It will be interesting to see what Disney does to spread out the crowds between the 4 parks.
Part of the problem with this is very few people will go to WDW and not go to MK at least for a day. If someone traveling to Orlando Florida to experience SWGE, they will almost certainly spend a day at MK as well. The issue is to a lot of people MK is Disney World, even if they are not super interested in going, someone in their party will want to go. I expect MK will increase far more than AK or EPCOT in 2020, because more guests will come to the area, and all will go to MK.
 

Marc Davis Fan

Well-Known Member
Part of the problem with this is very few people will go to WDW and not go to MK at least for a day. If someone traveling to Orlando Florida to experience SWGE, they will almost certainly spend a day at MK as well. The issue is to a lot of people MK is Disney World, even if they are not super interested in going, someone in their party will want to go. I expect MK will increase far more than AK or EPCOT in 2020, because more guests will come to the area, and all will go to MK.
Exactly. And that's why MK needs more high-capacity e-tickets and land expansions. Not just because it will keep needing more capacity as more people visit WDW to see things that are opening in the other parks - but also because it "represents" WDW to most people, and thus should be an absolute top tier representation of the best of what Disney can do.
 

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Exactly. And that's why MK needs more high-capacity e-tickets and land expansions. Not just because it will keep needing more capacity as more people visit WDW to see things that are opening in the other parks - but also because it "represents" WDW to most people, and thus should be an absolute top tier representation of the best of what Disney can do.
The problem there is that this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy -- If you take the park that most people would call quintessential and then expand and add to it, it's only going to become more popular and outshine the other parks further. The Magic Kingdom already has the most high capacity E-Tickets of any park in Florida.

If Epcot had a menu of 25+ attractions all up and down the A to E Ticket scale, 7-10 of which were considered classics, and all of them adhered to the themes of the park, I don't think it would have as a hard time pulling people in. It might still be seen as secondary to the "Castle Park" experience, but it would be a much closer second instead of a diiiistant second.

Same with Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom -- wouldn't you spend more time at each of them if they all had as much to do as MK? Wouldn't they feel as essential to the WDW experience, or at least much moreso? Animal Kingdom actually leapfrogged Epcot in visitation last year, which is due in no small part to that park being expanded with great new attractions and spaces. I'm sure we can count on Hollywood Studios to take up that mantle in 2020. But the park is so wildly under-built at the moment that it will be massacred under the Star Wars crowds. Hopefully it will push them to get serious about rounding out that park with a bigger attraction menu.

I love the Magic Kingdom and would love to see it grow and add new attractions, but it's already sooo far ahead of the other three parks that I think they need to really get serious about building them each out into full experiences before they can shower MK with more gems. It has plenty to do, but too many people who want to do those things. Give those people that many things to do at the other parks and the growth pattern should start to level out. Otherwise it will be a continual issue of building more to up capacity at MK, only for more people to come for the new stuff, which then needs more capacity built to handle those people . . . while the other parks continue to struggle in comparison.
 

Skibum1970

Well-Known Member
The problem there is that this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy -- If you take the park that most people would call quintessential and then expand and add to it, it's only going to become more popular and outshine the other parks further. The Magic Kingdom already has the most high capacity E-Tickets of any park in Florida.

If Epcot had a menu of 25+ attractions all up and down the A to E Ticket scale, 7-10 of which were considered classics, and all of them adhered to the themes of the park, I don't think it would have as a hard time pulling people in. It might still be seen as secondary to the "Castle Park" experience, but it would be a much closer second instead of a diiiistant second.

Same with Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom -- wouldn't you spend more time at each of them if they all had as much to do as MK? Wouldn't they feel as essential to the WDW experience, or at least much moreso? Animal Kingdom actually leapfrogged Epcot in visitation last year, which is due in no small part to that park being expanded with great new attractions and spaces. I'm sure we can count on Hollywood Studios to take up that mantle in 2020. But the park is so wildly under-built at the moment that it will be massacred under the Star Wars crowds. Hopefully it will push them to get serious about rounding out that park with a bigger attraction menu.

I love the Magic Kingdom and would love to see it grow and add new attractions, but it's already sooo far ahead of the other three parks that I think they need to really get serious about building them each out into full experiences before they can shower MK with more gems. It has plenty to do, but too many people who want to do those things. Give those people that many things to do at the other parks and the growth pattern should start to level out. Otherwise it will be a continual issue of building more to up capacity at MK, only for more people to come for the new stuff, which then needs more capacity built to handle those people . . . while the other parks continue to struggle in comparison.
Completely agree with this. Thus, they need to have projects in the pipeline, with dirt and concrete moving now. Not waiting until after SWL opens. When Disney reworked DCA, they did it all at once and that is what needs to happen at DHS. To me, people will eventually grow tired of crowds with ridiculous wait times and they'll look to greener pastures. Such as when Universal opens up their their third theme park (which won't be a number of years, obviously).
 

Marc Davis Fan

Well-Known Member
The problem there is that this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy -- If you take the park that most people would call quintessential and then expand and add to it, it's only going to become more popular and outshine the other parks further. The Magic Kingdom already has the most high capacity E-Tickets of any park in Florida.

If Epcot had a menu of 25+ attractions all up and down the A to E Ticket scale, 7-10 of which were considered classics, and all of them adhered to the themes of the park, I don't think it would have as a hard time pulling people in. It might still be seen as secondary to the "Castle Park" experience, but it would be a much closer second instead of a diiiistant second.

Same with Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom -- wouldn't you spend more time at each of them if they all had as much to do as MK? Wouldn't they feel as essential to the WDW experience, or at least much moreso? Animal Kingdom actually leapfrogged Epcot in visitation last year, which is due in no small part to that park being expanded with great new attractions and spaces. I'm sure we can count on Hollywood Studios to take up that mantle in 2020. But the park is so wildly under-built at the moment that it will be massacred under the Star Wars crowds. Hopefully it will push them to get serious about rounding out that park with a bigger attraction menu.

I love the Magic Kingdom and would love to see it grow and add new attractions, but it's already sooo far ahead of the other three parks that I think they need to really get serious about building them each out into full experiences before they can shower MK with more gems. It has plenty to do, but too many people who want to do those things. Give those people that many things to do at the other parks and the growth pattern should start to level out. Otherwise it will be a continual issue of building more to up capacity at MK, only for more people to come for the new stuff, which then needs more capacity built to handle those people . . . while the other parks continue to struggle in comparison.
This is a fair point.

It’s an unfortunate situation, because IMHO, Magic Kingdom (which again is perceived as WDW’s “flagship park,” if not as “WDW”) does not have anything as immersive and/or spectacular as World Showcase, Pandora, or what we can expect SWGE to be. Thus, the best of Disney is not present in the park that many people think of and remember as “Disney.”
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
This is a fair point.

It’s an unfortunate situation, because IMHO, Magic Kingdom (which again is perceived as WDW’s “flagship park,” if not as “WDW”) does not have anything as immersive and/or spectacular as World Showcase, Pandora, or what we can expect SWGE to be. Thus, the best of Disney is not present in the park that many people think of and remember as “Disney.”
I would say that the whole of Magic Kingdom is incredibly immersive and spectacular. While World Showcase represents real countries and Pandora refers to a film IP, Magic Kingdom is a fairy-tale world unto itself, made up of diverse, imaginatively combined themes that exude pure Disney. I can't think of anywhere that transports me so thoroughly and effectively from the humdrum of real life.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Exactly. And that's why MK needs more high-capacity e-tickets and land expansions. Not just because it will keep needing more capacity as more people visit WDW to see things that are opening in the other parks - but also because it "represents" WDW to most people, and thus should be an absolute top tier representation of the best of what Disney can do.
The problem there is that this becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy -- If you take the park that most people would call quintessential and then expand and add to it, it's only going to become more popular and outshine the other parks further. The Magic Kingdom already has the most high capacity E-Tickets of any park in Florida.

If Epcot had a menu of 25+ attractions all up and down the A to E Ticket scale, 7-10 of which were considered classics, and all of them adhered to the themes of the park, I don't think it would have as a hard time pulling people in. It might still be seen as secondary to the "Castle Park" experience, but it would be a much closer second instead of a diiiistant second.

Same with Hollywood Studios and Animal Kingdom -- wouldn't you spend more time at each of them if they all had as much to do as MK? Wouldn't they feel as essential to the WDW experience, or at least much moreso? Animal Kingdom actually leapfrogged Epcot in visitation last year, which is due in no small part to that park being expanded with great new attractions and spaces. I'm sure we can count on Hollywood Studios to take up that mantle in 2020. But the park is so wildly under-built at the moment that it will be massacred under the Star Wars crowds. Hopefully it will push them to get serious about rounding out that park with a bigger attraction menu.

I love the Magic Kingdom and would love to see it grow and add new attractions, but it's already sooo far ahead of the other three parks that I think they need to really get serious about building them each out into full experiences before they can shower MK with more gems. It has plenty to do, but too many people who want to do those things. Give those people that many things to do at the other parks and the growth pattern should start to level out. Otherwise it will be a continual issue of building more to up capacity at MK, only for more people to come for the new stuff, which then needs more capacity built to handle those people . . . while the other parks continue to struggle in comparison.
Don't get me wrong, an E-ticket addition would be welcome to Magic Kingdom (and it's getting one in two years), but it needs people eating attractions. It's why I maintain that a second Fantasyland expansion where you have several more Mermaid like D-tickets would really be the best course of action for that park.

Similarly if you're going to add an E-ticket it would have to be a remarkably efficient one and I'd put it over in Adventureland. The park probably needs 6-10K more per hour attraction capacity than it currently has. Eliminating the Main Street theater project really hurts because that would have helped pull guests to another area of the park and was unlikely to substantially affect attendance.
 

kthomas105

Well-Known Member
Here's a question that no one here may know the answer to but here goes anyways. Now that MMRR has been all but confirmed for Mickey's Toon Town at DL and it seems like such an appropriate fit for that land. Is it possible that MMRR was in fact designed for DL but was borrowed to replace GMR when They decided not to put the money into refurbishing it? Track with me, maybe they said we need something to replace GMR since we aren't going to fix it and there is going to be loads of people in 2019 at DHS b/c of SWGE. So they say "well we have this concept we've been working on that we can make work."

I'm sure that I am just connecting dots that don't actually connect but thematically it seems that this ride doesn't fit as well in DHS as it does in MTT. I was excited about having a one of a kind ride as a headliner for DHS but since it seems that they will clone it to DL, and possibly DLP, it just made me think that maybe it was always in the works for DL but got expressed for DHS instead to help with capacity and to replace GMR instead of a refurb.

Just my thoughts.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Here's a question that no one here may know the answer to but here goes anyways. Now that MMRR has been all but confirmed for Mickey's Toon Town at DL and it seems like such an appropriate fit for that land. Is it possible that MMRR was in fact designed for DL but was borrowed to replace GMR when They decided not to put the money into refurbishing it? Track with me, maybe they said we need something to replace GMR since we aren't going to fix it and there is going to be loads of people in 2019 at DHS b/c of SWGE. So they say "well we have this concept we've been working on that we can make work."

I'm sure that I am just connecting dots that don't actually connect but thematically it seems that this ride doesn't fit as well in DHS as it does in MTT. I was excited about having a one of a kind ride as a headliner for DHS but since it seems that they will clone it to DL, and possibly DLP, it just made me think that maybe it was always in the works for DL but got expressed for DHS instead to help with capacity and to replace GMR instead of a refurb.

Just my thoughts.
A more likely scenario intimated by our insiders is that GMR was become so stale and decrepit (which is WDW's fault for not keeping it fresh) and had issues with maintenance and the fire scene, that they had a choice: spend a huge sum to fix it, or, spend that sum on a new ride. And seeing how brand new rides bring in big crowds; And seeing they were planning on a big MK 50th Anniversary and wanting to do a Mickey ride, they decided to replace GMR and make Mickey the main attraction of the park.

Then when SWL was greenlit, they rushed MMRR into production to be open before SWL rather than have that spaced closed during the onslaught.

Now that they see how good MMRR is going to be in their prototypes, they decided to clone it to other parks and split the development cost between them. After all, "it all started with a mouse," and it would make sense for all the Disney parks to have a Mickey Mouse headliner ride.
 

MansionButler84

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
A more likely scenario intimated by our insiders is that GMR was become so stale and decrepit (which is WDW's fault for not keeping it fresh) and had issues with maintenance and the fire scene, that they had a choice: spend a huge sum to fix it, or, spend that sum on a new ride. And seeing how brand new rides bring in big crowds; And seeing they were planning on a big MK 50th Anniversary and wanting to do a Mickey ride, they decided to replace GMR and make Mickey the main attraction of the park.

Then when SWL was greenlit, they rushed MMRR into production to be open before SWL rather than have that spaced closed during the onslaught.

Now that they see how good MMRR is going to be in their prototypes, they decided to clone it to other parks and split the development cost between them. After all, "it all started with a mouse," and it would make sense for all the Disney parks to have a Mickey Mouse headliner ride.
Yes. MMRR was moved up where previously it was an option for the park. Schedules for SWL, another land, and individual projects moved around as the scope of certain aspects of the makeover shifted. The only thing unclear to me is what came of the entertainment updates. Perhaps those are now 50th updates with SWL opening too early to be a “50th addition.” I just struggle to imagine a show closing one at a time in 2020 and 2021. The park needs all hands on deck.
 

Skibum1970

Well-Known Member
Don't get me wrong, an E-ticket addition would be welcome to Magic Kingdom (and it's getting one in two years), but it needs people eating attractions. It's why I maintain that a second Fantasyland expansion where you have several more Mermaid like D-tickets would really be the best course of action for that park.

Similarly if you're going to add an E-ticket it would have to be a remarkably efficient one and I'd put it over in Adventureland. The park probably needs 6-10K more per hour attraction capacity than it currently has. Eliminating the Main Street theater project really hurts because that would have helped pull guests to another area of the park and was unlikely to substantially affect attendance.
Definitely agree with adding another ride to Adventureland or Frontierland. I would put it (probably no space) almost where the two lands meet. That would create a sequence from Jungle Cruise to Pirates to "Unknown Ride" to Splash Mountain. It would balance the park a little.

However, adding more rides to DHS is paramount in order to truly provide a "full day" type of park. I would focus on DHS and AK first, with Epcot being third. Then, I could pull some guests from MK while also handling new visitors.
 

atighe42

Well-Known Member
Yes. MMRR was moved up where previously it was an option for the park. Schedules for SWL, another land, and individual projects moved around as the scope of certain aspects of the makeover shifted. The only thing unclear to me is what came of the entertainment updates. Perhaps those are now 50th updates with SWL opening too early to be a “50th addition.” I just struggle to imagine a show closing one at a time in 2020 and 2021. The park needs all hands on deck.
What do you foresee being the “game plan” of DHS going forward? In regards to all the catching up it has to do. Shows, attractions, general enhancements, etc.
 

Marc Davis Fan

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see how they handle the queues and pre-shows for MMRR in the different parks. This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks* - in DHS, you are in a theater watching a cartoon and then step through the screen into a cartoon world, while in DL you will already be in a cartoon world from the start. It almost seems like the attraction's placement in ToonTown creates more difficulties for them aesthetically, because it has to jive with the already-created vibe of ToonTown instead of starting from scratch (like it would be if it were only at DHS).

*Unlike, say, ToT, where the entire attraction is different in TDS.

Definitely agree with adding another ride to Adventureland or Frontierland. I would put it (probably no space) almost where the two lands meet. That would create a sequence from Jungle Cruise to Pirates to "Unknown Ride" to Splash Mountain. It would balance the park a little.

However, adding more rides to DHS is paramount in order to truly provide a "full day" type of park. I would focus on DHS and AK first, with Epcot being third. Then, I could pull some guests from MK while also handling new visitors.
A westward expansion of Adventureland could be wonderful thematically and in terms of balancing out the park. Shanghai's Adventure Isle rockwork/mountain design could fit quite well there (although it would be have to be set back a bit, past the Splash and Pirates show buildings, but that would certainly add to MK's walking space). And Indiana Jones Adventure or an attraction with Shanghai's Pirates ride system would be a very high-capacity people-eater. But anyway, back to MMRR...
 
Last edited:

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
It will be interesting to see how they handle the queues and pre-shows for MMRR in the different parks. This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks*
*Unlike, say, ToT, where the entire attraction is different in TDS.
You could argue that The Haunted Mansion navigates this between it's "real and true" situation in Liberty Square and it's "flight of fancy" perspective in Tokyo's Fantasyland. The ride is the same (minus a few updates at WDW that haven't made their way to Japan), but the framing is different by virtue of their land placement to accommodate the differing cultural perspectives on ghosts and "ghost stories".

There's even a bit of this going on between the Disneyland and Walt Disney World Haunted Mansions - At Disneyland, after exiting the Stretch Room you wander down the changing portrait hallway and turn the corner into a "realm of boundless mist and decay", where you board the Doombuggies seemingly to depart into Limbo . . . but after a few moments in darkness find yourself turning another corner into the halls of the Mansion. The lighting in the load area has been negatively impacting the effect of this area for almost 20 years now, but prior to that it was a genuinely mysterious and unsettling turn of events. The Doombuggies seemed to spiral into being out of thin air, and it wasn't clear where they were taking you once you'd boarded. Where did the house go? Where are we going? Are we traveling into the void? The Doombuggies did - and still do - shudder just before turning into the Hallway scene, which really threw off your sense of direction when it was truly black in there, and left you senseless as to which way you were going. This is all to say . . . none of this happens in Walt Disney World. You simply exit the Stretch Room into the load area, where the Doombuggies appear in a long hall of the house to take you further into it. There are a few scenes difference after that, and of course the houses are different from DL to WDW, but it's sort of an example where you're led to the same experience by two differing setups. Why in Disneyland do we have to cross through this dark, supernatural Limbo area to get from inside the Mansion to . . . inside the Mansion? Whereas in the Magic Kingdom we're just there the whole time and never cross through the spirit world, the ghosts simply come to us from it? I won't get too into it - well, any more than I already have - but it's an interesting, funny mystery in the design of The Haunted Mansion that doesn't seem to have a definitive answer but sort of, kind of speaks to what you're talking about here.

And then there's Phantom Manor, where, for the sake of this conversation, the attraction is entirely different.

. . . But otherwise, Runaway Railway might be the first!
 
Last edited:

britain

Well-Known Member
This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks* - in DHS, you are in a theater watching a cartoon and then step through the screen into a cartoon world, while in DL you will already be in a cartoon world from the start. It almost seems like the attraction's placement in ToonTown creates more difficulties for them aesthetically, because it has to jive with the already-created vibe of ToonTown instead of starting from scratch (like it would be if it were only at DHS).
Little Mermaid
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see how they handle the queues and pre-shows for MMRR in the different parks. This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks* - in DHS, you are in a theater watching a cartoon and then step through the screen into a cartoon world, while in DL you will already be in a cartoon world from the start. It almost seems like the attraction's placement in ToonTown creates more difficulties for them aesthetically, because it has to jive with the already-created vibe of ToonTown instead of starting from scratch (like it would be if it were only at DHS).

*Unlike, say, ToT, where the entire attraction is different in TDS.
Um, I guess it's not the exact same ride, but the start of POTC between MK and DL is completely different - with MK being that you are already in the time and location of piracy when you are in the queue/fort, while for DL you are in contemporary New Orleans and have the time travel conceit during the caves.
 

MansionButler84

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Definitely agree with adding another ride to Adventureland or Frontierland. I would put it (probably no space) almost where the two lands meet. That would create a sequence from Jungle Cruise to Pirates to "Unknown Ride" to Splash Mountain. It would balance the park a little.

However, adding more rides to DHS is paramount in order to truly provide a "full day" type of park. I would focus on DHS and AK first, with Epcot being third. Then, I could pull some guests from MK while also handling new visitors.
Cross their collective fingers and enjoy the Scrooge McDuckian pile of money coming?

I anticipate they will eventually approve a new project with at least an e ticket and open it in 2023 at the earliest. Entertainment updates when they get to it.
 
Top Bottom