Mickey and Minnie's Runaway Railway confirmed

[MisterPenguin]

Here's a question that no one here may know the answer to but here goes anyways. Now that MMRR has been all but confirmed for Mickey's Toon Town at DL and it seems like such an appropriate fit for that land. Is it possible that MMRR was in fact designed for DL but was borrowed to replace GMR when They decided not to put the money into refurbishing it? Track with me, maybe they said we need something to replace GMR since we aren't going to fix it and there is going to be loads of people in 2019 at DHS b/c of SWGE. So they say "well we have this concept we've been working on that we can make work."

I'm sure that I am just connecting dots that don't actually connect but thematically it seems that this ride doesn't fit as well in DHS as it does in MTT. I was excited about having a one of a kind ride as a headliner for DHS but since it seems that they will clone it to DL, and possibly DLP, it just made me think that maybe it was always in the works for DL but got expressed for DHS instead to help with capacity and to replace GMR instead of a refurb.

Just my thoughts.

A more likely scenario intimated by our insiders is that GMR was become so stale and decrepit (which is WDW's fault for not keeping it fresh) and had issues with maintenance and the fire scene, that they had a choice: spend a huge sum to fix it, or, spend that sum on a new ride. And seeing how brand new rides bring in big crowds; And seeing they were planning on a big MK 50th Anniversary and wanting to do a Mickey ride, they decided to replace GMR and make Mickey the main attraction of the park.

Then when SWL was greenlit, they rushed MMRR into production to be open before SWL rather than have that spaced closed during the onslaught.

Now that they see how good MMRR is going to be in their prototypes, they decided to clone it to other parks and split the development cost between them. After all, "it all started with a mouse," and it would make sense for all the Disney parks to have a Mickey Mouse headliner ride.

 

[ToTBellHop]

A more likely scenario intimated by our insiders is that GMR was become so stale and decrepit (which is WDW's fault for not keeping it fresh) and had issues with maintenance and the fire scene, that they had a choice: spend a huge sum to fix it, or, spend that sum on a new ride. And seeing how brand new rides bring in big crowds; And seeing they were planning on a big MK 50th Anniversary and wanting to do a Mickey ride, they decided to replace GMR and make Mickey the main attraction of the park.

Then when SWL was greenlit, they rushed MMRR into production to be open before SWL rather than have that spaced closed during the onslaught.

Now that they see how good MMRR is going to be in their prototypes, they decided to clone it to other parks and split the development cost between them. After all, "it all started with a mouse," and it would make sense for all the Disney parks to have a Mickey Mouse headliner ride.

Yes. MMRR was moved up where previously it was an option for the park. Schedules for SWL, another land, and individual projects moved around as the scope of certain aspects of the makeover shifted. The only thing unclear to me is what came of the entertainment updates. Perhaps those are now 50th updates with SWL opening too early to be a “50th addition.” I just struggle to imagine a show closing one at a time in 2020 and 2021. The park needs all hands on deck.

 

[Skibum1970]

Don't get me wrong, an E-ticket addition would be welcome to Magic Kingdom (and it's getting one in two years), but it needs people eating attractions. It's why I maintain that a second Fantasyland expansion where you have several more Mermaid like D-tickets would really be the best course of action for that park.

Similarly if you're going to add an E-ticket it would have to be a remarkably efficient one and I'd put it over in Adventureland. The park probably needs 6-10K more per hour attraction capacity than it currently has. Eliminating the Main Street theater project really hurts because that would have helped pull guests to another area of the park and was unlikely to substantially affect attendance.

Definitely agree with adding another ride to Adventureland or Frontierland. I would put it (probably no space) almost where the two lands meet. That would create a sequence from Jungle Cruise to Pirates to "Unknown Ride" to Splash Mountain. It would balance the park a little.

However, adding more rides to DHS is paramount in order to truly provide a "full day" type of park. I would focus on DHS and AK first, with Epcot being third. Then, I could pull some guests from MK while also handling new visitors.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Yes. MMRR was moved up where previously it was an option for the park. Schedules for SWL, another land, and individual projects moved around as the scope of certain aspects of the makeover shifted. The only thing unclear to me is what came of the entertainment updates. Perhaps those are now 50th updates with SWL opening too early to be a “50th addition.” I just struggle to imagine a show closing one at a time in 2020 and 2021. The park needs all hands on deck.

What do you foresee being the “game plan” of DHS going forward? In regards to all the catching up it has to do. Shows, attractions, general enhancements, etc.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

It will be interesting to see how they handle the queues and pre-shows for MMRR in the different parks. This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks* - in DHS, you are in a theater watching a cartoon and then step through the screen into a cartoon world, while in DL you will already be in a cartoon world from the start. It almost seems like the attraction's placement in ToonTown creates more difficulties for them aesthetically, because it has to jive with the already-created vibe of ToonTown instead of starting from scratch (like it would be if it were only at DHS).

*Unlike, say, ToT, where the entire attraction is different in TDS.

Definitely agree with adding another ride to Adventureland or Frontierland. I would put it (probably no space) almost where the two lands meet. That would create a sequence from Jungle Cruise to Pirates to "Unknown Ride" to Splash Mountain. It would balance the park a little.

However, adding more rides to DHS is paramount in order to truly provide a "full day" type of park. I would focus on DHS and AK first, with Epcot being third. Then, I could pull some guests from MK while also handling new visitors.

A westward expansion of Adventureland could be wonderful thematically and in terms of balancing out the park. Shanghai's Adventure Isle rockwork/mountain design could fit quite well there (although it would be have to be set back a bit, past the Splash and Pirates show buildings, but that would certainly add to MK's walking space). And Indiana Jones Adventure or an attraction with Shanghai's Pirates ride system would be a very high-capacity people-eater. But anyway, back to MMRR...

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

It will be interesting to see how they handle the queues and pre-shows for MMRR in the different parks. This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks*
*Unlike, say, ToT, where the entire attraction is different in TDS.

You could argue that The Haunted Mansion navigates this between it's "real and true" situation in Liberty Square and it's "flight of fancy" perspective in Tokyo's Fantasyland. The ride is the same (minus a few updates at WDW that haven't made their way to Japan), but the framing is different by virtue of their land placement to accommodate the differing cultural perspectives on ghosts and "ghost stories".

There's even a bit of this going on between the Disneyland and Walt Disney World Haunted Mansions - At Disneyland, after exiting the Stretch Room you wander down the changing portrait hallway and turn the corner into a "realm of boundless mist and decay", where you board the Doombuggies seemingly to depart into Limbo . . . but after a few moments in darkness find yourself turning another corner into the halls of the Mansion. The lighting in the load area has been negatively impacting the effect of this area for almost 20 years now, but prior to that it was a genuinely mysterious and unsettling turn of events. The Doombuggies seemed to spiral into being out of thin air, and it wasn't clear where they were taking you once you'd boarded. Where did the house go? Where are we going? Are we traveling into the void? The Doombuggies did - and still do - shudder just before turning into the Hallway scene, which really threw off your sense of direction when it was truly black in there, and left you senseless as to which way you were going. This is all to say . . . none of this happens in Walt Disney World. You simply exit the Stretch Room into the load area, where the Doombuggies appear in a long hall of the house to take you further into it. There are a few scenes difference after that, and of course the houses are different from DL to WDW, but it's sort of an example where you're led to the same experience by two differing setups. Why in Disneyland do we have to cross through this dark, supernatural Limbo area to get from inside the Mansion to . . . inside the Mansion? Whereas in the Magic Kingdom we're just there the whole time and never cross through the spirit world, the ghosts simply come to us from it? I won't get too into it - well, any more than I already have - but it's an interesting, funny mystery in the design of The Haunted Mansion that doesn't seem to have a definitive answer but sort of, kind of speaks to what you're talking about here.

And then there's Phantom Manor, where, for the sake of this conversation, the attraction is entirely different.

. . . But otherwise, Runaway Railway might be the first!

 

[britain]

This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks* - in DHS, you are in a theater watching a cartoon and then step through the screen into a cartoon world, while in DL you will already be in a cartoon world from the start. It almost seems like the attraction's placement in ToonTown creates more difficulties for them aesthetically, because it has to jive with the already-created vibe of ToonTown instead of starting from scratch (like it would be if it were only at DHS).

Little Mermaid

 

[doctornick]

It will be interesting to see how they handle the queues and pre-shows for MMRR in the different parks. This is the only situation I can think of where the premise of the exact same "ride" is fundamentally different in different parks* - in DHS, you are in a theater watching a cartoon and then step through the screen into a cartoon world, while in DL you will already be in a cartoon world from the start. It almost seems like the attraction's placement in ToonTown creates more difficulties for them aesthetically, because it has to jive with the already-created vibe of ToonTown instead of starting from scratch (like it would be if it were only at DHS).

*Unlike, say, ToT, where the entire attraction is different in TDS.

Um, I guess it's not the exact same ride, but the start of POTC between MK and DL is completely different - with MK being that you are already in the time and location of piracy when you are in the queue/fort, while for DL you are in contemporary New Orleans and have the time travel conceit during the caves.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Definitely agree with adding another ride to Adventureland or Frontierland. I would put it (probably no space) almost where the two lands meet. That would create a sequence from Jungle Cruise to Pirates to "Unknown Ride" to Splash Mountain. It would balance the park a little.

However, adding more rides to DHS is paramount in order to truly provide a "full day" type of park. I would focus on DHS and AK first, with Epcot being third. Then, I could pull some guests from MK while also handling new visitors.

Cross their collective fingers and enjoy the Scrooge McDuckian pile of money coming?

I anticipate they will eventually approve a new project with at least an e ticket and open it in 2023 at the earliest. Entertainment updates when they get to it.

 

[ppete1975]

Pretty sure SWGE is gonna absorb a BIG part of that 7 million next year.

I think people with little kids especially little princesses will still choose the magic kingdom. Thats whats dumb with disneylands decision.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Little Mermaid

Um, I guess it's not the exact same ride, but the start of POTC between MK and DL is completely different - with MK being that you are already in the time and location of piracy when you are in the queue/fort, while for DL you are in contemporary New Orleans and have the time travel conceit during the caves.

[...and @yensidtlaw1969’s great post, which I forgot to quote]

Ok, fair enough. When I wrote that I figured I’d be inviting counterexamples, and you delivered

That said, it will be interesting to see how they handle the queue/preshown of MMRR’s ToonTown version as compared with its Hollywood version, and especially whether the attraction scenes’ design (presumably the same in both versions) are meant to jive with ToonTown (interesting to see how that will work considering the style of the new Mickey shorts).

 

[britain]

I think people with little kids especially little princesses will still choose the magic kingdom. Thats whats dumb with disneylands decision.

Disneyland proper hasn't had an E-Ticket since Indy Jones 24 years ago! It's overdue!

EDIT: I mean with respect to DL getting Star Wars rather than DCA. I grant you MMRR could go to DCA instead, especially after Star Wars has been added to DL.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

With regards to framing... Star Tours at Disneyland takes place in an actual space port whereas the DHS version is set in a movie set.

 

[MisterPenguin]

With regards to framing... Star Tours at Disneyland takes place in an actual space port whereas the DHS version is set in a movie set.

Not really. WDW is abandoning "you are on a set watching movies being made" to "you are now in the movie interacting as a character in the movie."

So, there is no signage outside DHS's SWL that says your entering a Disney-LucasFilm sound stage, or that you're even entering a theater... no marquees. You walk through a typical L.A./Hollywood street-tunnel and then wind up on Batuu. Just like crossing a bridge out of the Hub and you're in Adventureland.

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

Not really. WDW is abandoning "you are on a set watching movies being made" to "you are now in the movie interacting as a character in the movie."

So, there is no signage outside DHS's SWL that says your entering a Disney-LucasFilm sound stage, or that you're even entering a theater... no marquees. You walk through a typical L.A./Hollywood street-tunnel and then wind up on Batuu. Just like crossing a bridge out of the Hub and you're in Adventureland.

... I said Star Tours ...

 

[MisterPenguin]

... I said Star Tours ...View attachment 347712

Oops. That's completely different.

Nevermind.

Although... Star Tours isn't long for this world, give or take half a dozen years...

 

[marni1971]

Um, I guess it's not the exact same ride, but the start of POTC between MK and DL is completely different - with MK being that you are already in the time and location of piracy when you are in the queue/fort, while for DL you are in contemporary New Orleans and have the time travel conceit during the caves.

Paris is the same (and the DLP version was seen as the as-perfect-as-possible version, correcting mistake of the previous two)

 

[The_Mesh_Hatter]

I thought some more about this and you’ve also got Rock’n’Roller Coaster as an example of two rides that are the same with different framing. In DHS, you age on your way to the recording studio. In the WDS version you’re riding through the album.

The different versions of Soarin’s are all the same ride basically with different framing, too. I feel like Midway Mania does something similar too

 

[Rich Brownn]

You could argue that The Haunted Mansion navigates this between it's "real and true" situation in Liberty Square and it's "flight of fancy" perspective in Tokyo's Fantasyland. The ride is the same (minus a few updates at WDW that haven't made their way to Japan), but the framing is different by virtue of their land placement to accommodate the differing cultural perspectives on ghosts and "ghost stories".

There's even a bit of this going on between the Disneyland and Walt Disney World Haunted Mansions - At Disneyland, after exiting the Stretch Room you wander down the changing portrait hallway and turn the corner into a "realm of boundless mist and decay", where you board the Doombuggies seemingly to depart into Limbo . . . but after a few moments in darkness find yourself turning another corner into the halls of the Mansion. The lighting in the load area has been negatively impacting the effect of this area for almost 20 years now, but prior to that it was a genuinely mysterious and unsettling turn of events. The Doombuggies seemed to spiral into being out of thin air, and it wasn't clear where they were taking you once you'd boarded. Where did the house go? Where are we going? Are we traveling into the void? The Doombuggies did - and still do - shudder just before turning into the Hallway scene, which really threw off your sense of direction when it was truly black in there, and left you senseless as to which way you were going. This is all to say . . . none of this happens in Walt Disney World. You simply exit the Stretch Room into the load area, where the Doombuggies appear in a long hall of the house to take you further into it. There are a few scenes difference after that, and of course the houses are different from DL to WDW, but it's sort of an example where you're led to the same experience by two differing setups. Why in Disneyland do we have to cross through this dark, supernatural Limbo area to get from inside the Mansion to . . . inside the Mansion? Whereas in the Magic Kingdom we're just there the whole time and never cross through the spirit world, the ghosts simply come to us from it? I won't get too into it - well, any more than I already have - but it's an interesting, funny mystery in the design of The Haunted Mansion that doesn't seem to have a definitive answer but sort of, kind of speaks to what you're talking about here.

And then there's Phantom Manor, where, for the sake of this conversation, the attraction is entirely different.

. . . But otherwise, Runaway Railway might be the first!

It's a matter of practicality. At Disneyland you need to walk under the railroad and into a show building hence the corridor. At WDW, there's no tunnel you are already in the show building when you exit the stretch room.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

It's a matter of practicality. At Disneyland you need to walk under the railroad and into a show building hence the corridor. At WDW, there's no tunnel you are already in the show building when you exit the stretch room.

Right - but the Stretch Room isn't any sort of practical necessity in Florida and they built it anyway because they liked it as part of the design. They did, however, elect to skip the "boundless realm of the supernatural" as a story and design element, which is what's curious to me - the load at WDW is instead made to look like a practical part of the house. The spiel still mentions the boundless realm bit if you listen closely, but there's nothing in the ride that suggests its presence. Phantom Manor, while totally different in story, uses the same layout as Disneyland with the Elevator (though it doesn't actually go under the railroad) but also does away with this "Limbo" area in favor of a grand staircase - which may simply be a matter of the story being different, but it makes me wonder, what were they going for with the load area in Disneyland?

There's some famous art for it out there that shows the house slowly fading into nothingness, but it's even then the concept of taking guests "across the veil" only to bring them back to the house is sort of murky. I just wonder what they were going for there, it seems in some way elemental to the Disneyland Mansion concept and yet is not even acknowledged at any of the other Mansions. It's not like they couldn't have themed the Disneyland Load Area to part of the house if they'd wanted to. It feels like a conceptual set up to the ride, but one that's never really been made sense of . . . which was maybe the point?