Mickey and Minnie’s Runaway Railway - Disneyland

[mickEblu]

-Grizzly Peak airfield for sure!

-Luigi's Roadsters for Luigi's tires (but the tires sucked IMO).

-GOTG for TOT (yes I know this is more controversial for some but GOTG is a really fun and repeatable ride, hence the long waits)

The only one for *me* that I think is worse is Soain Over the World. And I LIKE it but the California one is better and obviously fit the park more.

But outside of Pixar Pier (which I haven't seen yet) what other big changes have their been in the last five years? And even with all the changes people seem to not like here, which I understand, but all those changes have seen to only make those rides more popular. Maybe they will wear off but I kept hearing how GOTG was going to be a total dud and it was going to drop to low wait times after a few months. According to the app that ride current wait time is 60 mins and that's on the lower end for this ride.

Hmmm ok I can give you Luigi’s because they re nicer to look at but ride experience is about the same and the Tires got some novelty points.

No way on GOTG. Didn’t you just say it was a downgrade in your last post?

I was asking for your personal opinion not how popular they are. Besides, I think it’s too soon to say if any of the changes are more popular than their predecessors. GOTG averaging 40 minute waits when it’s barley a year old isn’t a very strong case.

No there haven’t been that many changes outside the ones mentioned. That’s why I’m wondering who are these people that don’t Like change even if it’s better? You admitted yourself that all the e tickets are worse.

 

[fctiger]

Hmmm ok I can give you Luigi’s because they re nicer to look at but ride experience is about the same and the Tires got some novelty points.

No way on GOTG. Didn’t you just say it was a downgrade in your last post?

I was asking for your personal opinion not how popular they are. Besides, I think it’s too soon to say if any of the changes are more popular than their predecessors. GOTG averaging 40 minute waits when it’s not even a year old isn’t a very strong case.

No there haven’t been that many changes outside the ones mentioned. That’s why I’m wondering who are these people that don’t Like change even if it’s better? You admitted yourself that all the e tickets are worse.

I don't think GOTG for TOT is better because it's theme doesn't fit in with HL where as TOT fit in perfectly. That's what I was mainly talking about. I admit though I really do like GOTG as a ride and have no issues with that in itself. But yes it bothers me the ride has no business being in the area its in which I STILL object to. But now that we know Marvel land is officially coming then I'm more OK with it now. They should've waited to do it after ML came but they had a movie to sell I guess.

And GOTG is infinitely more popular than TOT, at least for now. Let's not kid ourselves. TOT was like the HM in the sense after a certain time you can hope on that ride with 10 min waits even in the summer. And you had no problems getting FP through the evening. GOTG has lines all day to closing and FPs are gone by early afternoon. The only times TOT was more than an hour wait was when the park was slammed or just one shaft was open. Now GOTG may not STAY that way, I agree,, but TOT was NEVER this popular to begin with is what I'm saying.

But the issues I have with GOTG are the same thing with Soarin. SOTW is FINE but it doesn't feel right in its placement of the park. But then I been saying over and over the California theme is all but dead which I'm fine with. But if you still have areas that are specific to a theme then yes you should keep it consistent until other wise. But the lines don't lie, SOTW doesn't seem to be any less popular than SOC because its still a good ride even if I think SOC is better.

 

[mickEblu]

I don't think GOTG for TOT is better because it's theme doesn't fit in with HL where as TOT fit in perfectly. That's what I was mainly talking about. I admit though I really do like GOTG as a ride and have no issues with that in itself. But yes it bothers me the ride has no business being in the area its in which I STILL object to. But now that we know Marvel land is officially coming then I'm more OK with it now. They should've waited to do it after ML came but they had a movie to sell I guess.

And GOTG is infinitely more popular than TOT, at least for now. Let's not kid ourselves. TOT was like the HM in the sense after a certain time you can hope on that ride with 10 min waits even in the summer. And you had no problems getting FP through the evening. GOTG has lines all day to closing and FPs are gone by early afternoon. The only times TOT was more than an hour wait was when the park was at capacity or just one shaft was open. Now GOTG may not STAY that way, I agree,, but TOT was NEVER this popular to begin with is what I'm saying.

But the issues I have with GOTG are the same thing with Soarin. SOTW is FINE but it doesn't feel right in its placement of the park. But then I been saying over and over the California theme is all but dead which I'm fine with. But if you still have areas that are specific to a theme then yes you should keep it consistent until other wise.

So TOT didn’t have 45 minute waits when it first opened? I find that hard to believe. So you didn’t really answer my question. You have issues with most of the changes yourself. Meaning you have no example of a slam dunk change that people are complaining about but shouldn’t be.

 

[mickEblu]

The glitches on this site are giving me a nervous breakdown.

 

[fctiger]

So TOT didn’t have 45 minute waits when it first opened? I find that hard to believe. So you didn’t really answer my question. You have issues with most of the changes yourself. Meaning you have no example of a slam dunk change that people are complaining about but shouldn’t be.

It did the first few months but then it settled into 20-30 min waits after that. Now to be fair this was in 2004 when DCA was still mostly a ghost town lol. The first time I rode it was about three months after it opened, it was 30 mins wait. I didn't go back until the 50th anniversary in 2005 and it was never more than 20 mins and this was in July. But as the park got more busy so did the ride of course but it was never anything more than 45 mins average even in busy days and could easily drop to half that once the sun went down.

And where did I say people shouldn't complain about it??? Don't twist my words man. All I said was the changes are fine for *me* personally and I don't mind changes in general. And I didn't say they were perfect changes just acceptable.. But if you feel differently fine, I'm only saying for most people it doesn't seem to be an issue since the actual rides are good and clearly the wait times mean people like them. TOT and SOTW has both been around a year and they both have large lines and FP goes quickly. What ELSE can you go on?

The jury is still out where Pixar Pier will fall but its early.

 

[mickEblu]

It did the first few months but then it settled into 20-30 min waits after that. Now to be fair this was in 2004 when DCA was still mostly a ghost town lol. The first time I rode it was about three months after it opened, it was 30 mins wait. I didn't go back until the 50th anniversary in 2005 and it was never more than 20 mins and this was in July. But as the park got more busy so did the ride of course but it was never anything more than 45 mins average even in busy days and could easily drop to half that once the sun went down.

And where did I say people shouldn't complain about it??? Don't twist my words man. All I said was the changes are fine for *me* personally and I don't mind changes in general. And I didn't say they were perfect changes just acceptable.. But if you feel differently fine, I'm only saying for most people it doesn't seem to be an issue since the actual rides are good and clearly the wait times mean people like them. TOT and SOTW has both been around a year and they both have large lines. What ELSE can you go on?

The jury is still out where Pixar Pier will fall but its early.

I didn’t Say you said they “shouldn’t be.” I’m saying you insinuated their is a group of people/ fans that are unhappy even if changes are better. My point is where is this slam dunk change where most rational people wouldn’t/ shouldn’t be complaining? If you yourself have issues with all of the major changes the last few years.

And stop pretending like you don’t know what I’m saying and make me explain myself 3 times.

 

[Kram Sacul]

Are we really talking about Mission: Box Office being more popular than TOT? The Incredicoaster is more popular than either and we all know that's a cheap POS.

 

[TwilightZone]

So what do you think has been changed for the better in the last few years besides Condor Flats to Grizzly Peak Airfield? I can’t think of anything else.

. Camp land to pandora
. Ellen's energy adventure to mission breakout (please don't kill me, but I never liked ellen that much)
. The epcot revival in general (please kill jiiwf)
. Early 00s dhs to modern dhs (ymmv, but I'd rather have somewhat entertaining ip rides to boring weird "experiences" that dhs used to have)
. Bugs land to super hero land (once again please don't kill me, I just don't like overly kiddie lands.)
. Bountiful farms to carsland
. The closure of pleasure island was a sad one, but I think it didn't fit well in downtown disney. Maybe if it was located somewhere else it would have lasted better IMO
. Last but not least the closure of stitch

 

[TwilightZone]

Are we really talking about Mission: Box Office being more popular than TOT? The Incredicoaster is more popular than either and we all know that's a cheap POS.

I think only because it is a rollercoaster and because it is "new". Time will tell how it will hold up once star wars land and super hero land opens.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The glitches on this site are giving me a nervous breakdown.

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ͨ̑̉͛̈́

 

[mickEblu]

. Camp land to pandora
. Ellen's energy adventure to mission breakout (please don't kill me, but I never liked ellen that much)
. The epcot revival in general (please kill jiiwf)
. Early 00s dhs to modern dhs (ymmv, but I'd rather have somewhat entertaining ip rides to boring weird "experiences" that dhs used to have)
. Bugs land to super hero land (once again please don't kill me, I just don't like overly kiddie lands.)
. Bountiful farms to carsland
. The closure of pleasure island was a sad one, but I think it didn't fit well in downtown disney. Maybe if it was located somewhere else it would have lasted better IMO
. Last but not least the closure of stitch

I was speaking about strictly DLR. Of course Cars Land. I was speaking of the last few years. Specifically 2015/2016, when Chapeks branding assault began.

How are we including a land that doesn’t exist yet?

 

[fctiger]

I didn’t Say you said they “shouldn’t be.” I’m saying you insinuated their is a group of people/ fans that are unhappy even if changes are better. My point is where is this slam dunk change where most rational people wouldn’t/ shouldn’t be complaining? If you yourself have issues with all of the major changes the last few years.

First off I wasn't even citing DCA itself. Go back to my post (which I'm guessing you got it) I was talking about DL in general since its had a long history. YOU cited DCA personally, which is fine, but DCA wasn't even my argument.

And I said people don't like changes after they gotten use to something, which I understand. But lets not kid ourselves here, there is a loooong history of super fans complaining anytime something changes they grew up with. I'm pretty new here so I can't tell you here but I have been in multiple sites of people not wanting changes even in the smallest things. Here are a few examples: People didn't want the AP center on Main Street to leave because it 'resembled' a bank which BoFA use to be there. They objected against the art gallery that is there now and actually a big plus. There was a huge uproar when DL decided to add Fantasy Faire back in 2013. Many argued against it because there was a jazz stage there people danced on Saturday nights even though Fantasy Faire actually upgraded the area immensely and was in theme. There are people who still want the old subs back even though its been past its prime for ages and hate the Nemo one. People are literally complaining about Star Wars being in the park now. A brand new area that takes NOTHING away from what was there before and that will add capacity and include two new E tickets. The first E tickets in the park since Indy. How is it better to keep what was there before compared to SW? I would love to hear it. And yet people hate its in the park. You can't say its not better than what was there before lol. There are still people out there who would have ATIS back over Star Tours. Do I think most, of course not, I'm only talking about the ones who do.

But even DCA A Bug's Land comes to mind. People were really upset about the idea of it leaving for Marvel. Now it doesn't mean a Marvel land will be inherently better and you can certainly like ABL but razing a small area of kids rides for what will probably be bigger rides and a brand people actually know and care about is a no-brainer. MOST people get this, which was my original point. Most rational people may miss something but understand. Only a very tiny minority even has a problem with most of these changes, like Star Wars, in the first place. But they sound bigger being on the internet.

 

[mickEblu]

First off I wasn't even citing DCA itself. Go back to my post (which I'm guessing you got it) I was talking about DL in general since its had a long history. YOU cited DCA personally, which is fine, but DCA wasn't even my argument.

And I said people don't like changes after they gotten use to something, which I understand. But lets not kid ourselves here, there is a loooong history of super fans complaining anytime something changes they grew up with. I'm pretty new here so I can't tell you here but I have been in multiple sites of people not wanting changes even in the smallest things. Here are a few examples: People didn't want the AP center on Main Street to leave because it 'resembled' a bank which BoFA use to be there. They objected against the art gallery that is there now and actually a big plus. There was a huge uproar when DL decided to add Fantasy Faire back in 2013. Many argued against it because there was a jazz stage there people danced on Saturday nights even though Fantasy Faire actually upgraded the area immensely and was in theme. There are people who still want the old subs back even though its been past its prime for ages and hate the Nemo one. People are literally complaining about Star Wars being in the park now. A brand new area that takes NOTHING away from what was there before and that will add capacity and include two new E tickets. The first E tickets in the park since Indy. How is it better to keep what was there before compared to SW? I would love to hear it. And yet people hate its in the park. You can't say its not better than what was there before lol. There are still people out there who would have ATIS back over Star Tours. Do I think most, of course not, I'm only talking about the ones who do.

But even DCA A Bug's Land comes to mind. People were really upset about the idea of it leaving for Marvel. Now it doesn't mean a Marvel land will be inherently better and you can certainly like ABL but razing a small area of kids rides for what will probably be bigger rides and a brand people actually know and care about is a no-brainer. MOST people get this, which was my original point. Most rational people may miss something but understand. Only a very tiny minority even has a problem with most of these changes, like Star Wars, in the first place. But they sound bigger being on the internet.

Ok. Gotcha.

 

[TROR]

. Camp land to pandora
. Ellen's energy adventure to mission breakout (please don't kill me, but I never liked ellen that much)
. The epcot revival in general (please kill jiiwf)
. Early 00s dhs to modern dhs (ymmv, but I'd rather have somewhat entertaining ip rides to boring weird "experiences" that dhs used to have)
. Bugs land to super hero land (once again please don't kill me, I just don't like overly kiddie lands.)
. Bountiful farms to carsland
. The closure of pleasure island was a sad one, but I think it didn't fit well in downtown disney. Maybe if it was located somewhere else it would have lasted better IMO
. Last but not least the closure of stitch

Gonna kill you

 

[TwilightZone]

How are we including a land that doesn’t exist yet?

Well if I were to compare what I know about marvel land vs. bugs land, I can just imagine it just being the better land, even if it ends up mission breakout ugly. Bug's land was not the best land ever made, it had rides that would only appeal to little, little kids. Marvel will be able to draw in a vaster age group, both by rides and IP. Just my thoughts.
EDIT: As for epcot, it's more wait and see, but I think disney will go all out for the most part on this, I'm betting to get some star wars galaxy's edge level rides here. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's some cheapo rides or a kiddie section either.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I should've said Pixar Pier (and other recent changes). They're commercial successes with the only critical support coming from those who fear saying something negative will mean they won't be invited back for the next press preview.

I'm assuming this is a reference to the latest round of Micechat updates

 

[fctiger]

Well if I were to compare what I know about marvel land vs. bugs land, I can just imagine it just being the better land, even if it ends up mission breakout ugly. Bug's land was not the best land ever made, it had rides that would only appeal to little, little kids. Marvel will be able to draw in a vaster age group, both by rides and IP. Just my thoughts.
EDIT: As for epcot, it's more wait and see, but I think disney will go all out for the most part on this, I'm betting to get some star wars galaxy's edge level rides here. But I wouldn't be surprised if there's some cheapo rides or a kiddie section either.

I agree with all of this but it brings up another point and that is once something there is long enough people will naturally just become attached to something because nostalgia just starts to set in. Stuff that opened to little fanfare people will miss a decade later when they close it. Not everyone, maybe not even most, but enough.

Take my word for it, stuff like GOTG, Pixar Pier, etc, if and when those are rumored to leave you are going to find people arguing like tooth and nail why they should stay. Again I'm not saying most people, but I'm saying enough that will get noticed. There is going to be some parent saying how their kids grew up on the Incredicoaster and how much Pixar is adored and why Disney will make a huge mistake turning it into a Batman ride (I'm thinking waaaaaay down the future here ).

I will say though when it was announced that DCA 1.0 was getting an overhaul you didn't hear much of a fight lol. I think it was almost unanimous people were happy the ugly entrance was going away for BVS or that they were destroying the pitiful farm area for CL. The proposed changes were all pretty well received at the time. Even if you weren't overly excited about CL itself, no one was arguing why the farm should stay. But DCA was only six years old (yep) when the overhaul was originally announced. It was still a baby when 2.0 was was happening so very few people had any nostalgia for any of it by then. And yeah it mostly sucked anyway.

And yet you can STILL find threads from people online who said they still miss the old entrance, Golden Dreams, some of the restaurants, etc. Again they are in the minority but I guarantee you if this stuff stayed around 10-20 years way more people would've been screaming about it.

 

[smile]

If that's the case then they will shift gears if and when the time comes. To me theme parks should just naturally change with the times anyway. The problem with DL is after a few years people get so attached to something they don't want to change it even if its for the better. Now I will say changing TOT for GOTG was NOT for the better IMO. That said, clearly it was a good idea to change it because the ride is immensely more popular now because of it. I can tell you no one in my family misses TOT after riding GOTG. Maybe in ten years that ride will become old hat and wait levels drop to 10 mins. If and when that is the case then they should change it.

obviously, aiming for current pop trends gives control up to the shifting tides of momentary popular opinion, which can be costly...
you may find you're burning capex to fix outdated attractions instead of being able to spend on things that could maybe last longer than five years.

a quick example being the multitude of proposals for fresh and exciting new installations for both dlr generally and dca specifically
- things which are moving glacially, remain shelved or are otherwise immobile, in part due to crap like rebuilding a pier for the third time in two decades

dca's history also refutes another point you've made elsewhere...
garbage attractions don't age like fine wine - they lead back to the aforementioned fiscally tenuous cycle where dealing with the past impedes truly working toward the future.

... or not

 

[fctiger]

obviously, aiming for current pop trends gives control up to the shifting tides of momentary popular opinion, which can be costly...
you may find you're burning capex to fix outdated attractions instead of being able to spend on things that could maybe last longer than five years.

a quick example being the multitude of proposals for fresh and exciting new installations for both dlr generally and dca specifically
- things which are moving glacially, remain shelved or are otherwise immobile, in part due to crap like rebuilding a pier for the third time in two decades

dca's history also refutes another point you've made elsewhere...
garbage attractions don't age like fine wine - they lead back to the aforementioned fiscally tenuous cycle where dealing with the past impedes truly working toward the future.

... or not

But I don't see any evidence where Disney HAS to change anything just because its no longer 'in'. Perfect point, Toontown. Place has been outdated for well over a decade now. Most people only go there to ride Roger Rabbit and I'm guessing most people who are the age the ride is based around probably has never even seen the film. And yet its still there...and still popular. They can toss that, put in a Frozen area and watch that place attendance quadruple.

I guess what I'm saying is unless this 'trend' turns into a full on dud where it stops people from going on these rides and lands will stay as long as Disney wants them to. There doesn't seem to be any set standard to any of it. The only time they feel a need to change something (assuming its bad) is for perception reasons, which is obviously what happened with much of DCA, but not because something feels too dated. I'm pretty sure ABL for example would've sat there another decade if they didn't have a better idea for it that could bring in more people and sell more merchandise. And the move it was based on was already losing its popularity before they started building it.

There are outdated attractions and lands inside DL people fight just to keep around like Toontown.

 

[BrianLo]

Disney: Hey, magical friends! Would you be interested in a Burger King in the parks?

General guests: YES!

Disney: Hey, princess! Would you be interested in a Futurama ride in the parks?

General guests: Why, yes! We would!

Disney: Hey, folks! Would you be interested in spinning benches on Main Street?

General guests: Do tell!

Universal: Hey you cool cats! Would you be interested in a fast and furious ride that doesn't go fast or anywhere?

General guests: Uhhh, actually no.

Universal: Oh... but this always works for Disney...