Miceage Update 12/1/2015

D

Deleted member 107043

The Gove is only considered fake and different because it came after Modernism whens ush design was uniformly deemed fake.

No matter how you try to intellectualize it public venues like The Grove are deemed fake in this discussion because, like Disneyland and the postmodernist architectural fads that followed, it exemplifies the pretend sense of place that these types of commercial developments attempt to achieve, which of course is 100% artificial.
 
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mickEblu

Well-Known Member
My guess is that the Storm Trooper chase attraction is screen based as well, where the trackless vehicle moves from screen to screen, a la Ratatouille. Like that ride, there will be plenty of effects and physical sets in between screens, but the bulk of the shooting happens while you are parked in front of each.

The Millenium Falcon ride is intriguing, because I'm not sure what they are going for. An early iteration of Star Wars land intended for there to be a full scale replica of the Falcon and have it be a walk-through attraction. I loved that idea. But making it into a ride seems tricky. A large scale Star Tours-like cabin doesn't fit the theming of the Falcon, where no such room exists. I'm wondering if they are going with the Mission:Space setup, where the ride vehicle is a bunch of 3-4 person pods made to look like the Falcon's cockpit. Each pod is then its own simulator, although how they are going to load and unload multiple pods in a way that makes it feel like each person is going into the Falcon's ONE cockpit seems hard. Also, what is the point of this ride? If it really is just a simulator under new digs, it's not going to feel like anything more than a souped up Star Tours, which might be disappointing. Especially if they intend to keep Star Tours running.


All your concerns are pretty much why I would rather have the Endor Bike coaster (something that moves through physical space in what could of been awesome sets) instead of the Falcon ride. Of course Disney could have something up their sleeve to make it incredible but I fear that it will be Star Tours - the Remix.

As for the Storm Trooper ride I hope they go all out with the sets and animatronics and don't rely so heavily on the screens. I'm hoping for more than Transformers meets Astro Blasters/ TSMM. I would like a little more thrill and movement to go along with the immersive environment.
 

mickEblu

Well-Known Member
Using screens to move across vast distances isn't an excuse. There is no building a ride that actually does drop hundreds of feet and crosses thousands of feet, or in the case of Star Wars traverse across light-years. Radiator Springs Racers is physical because it is set at a scale now understood by most visitors, the car. The whole reason the Star Wars land is a new place is because most of the places shown in the films are rather empty, they aren't places that can really be explored. The planets and moons of Star Wars are often rather inhospitable.

Now the Stormtrooper attack ride is one that makes sense for physical props as that premise can be set some place that is human scaled, but it makes no sense for the Millennium Falcon unless you only want a Storybook Land experience.

I agree. It would be difficult to execute a Star Wars attraction that would do any of the Space battles or traveling in Space any justice. But then again people seems to be really enjoying hyper space mountain so I wonder if there would be a way to take that further with newer technology / ride systems - basically something so new we haven't thought of it yet. Kind of like when Indiana Jones first came out.

I don't blame Disney for going the screens route for a "Space ride" but wish they would of chosen the land based E ticket to be a different experience. Maybe something more like an RSR meets a combo of Astro Blasters/ TSMM. But I guess for all we know it could be.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
The origins of Main Street, USA being reduced in commentary to just a shopping center are negative, often Marxist-oriented critiques that, unable to attack the resonance of its pre-Modern design and storytelling experience, had to reduce the Disneyland experience, by removing its storytelling component, to something already established and reviled, the shopping center. The shopping center is reviled because it contains commerce and pleasant (entertaining) design, components that from a Marxist construct only exist to reinforce the established superstructure in an attempt to hold off the inevitable class struggle, a new look for the old "bread and circuses." Some of the first places to receive such critiques were the boulevards of Paris because they were designed to be pleasant (entertaining) spaces where commerce could easily take place, but yes the city does not tell a story. Similarly The Grove does not tell a story but Main Street, USA does tell a story which is what makes it themed. All three use referential, pre-Modern design. The Grove gets tossed in with Disneyland because Postmodernism eventually reduced pre-Modern design elements to a sort of popular entertainment and did so by often actively invoking the design language of Disneyland while still ignoring its storytelling component. The Gove is only considered fake and different because it came after Modernism when such design was uniformly deemed fake.

You can write however many theses you want on the subject, but at the end of the day, a whole boatload of people visit The Grove every day because it reminds them of Disneyland and Main Street and doesn't require an admission. It is a place that was developed by many veterans from within the themed entertainment industry and... if you actually want to spend some time digging around, you'll learn that both The Grove and the Americana were both developed to actually resemble 1940's Charleston, South Carolina.

Also, not sure which dictionary you are using, but none that I've read say anything about something being "themed" needing to come equipped with a full backstory. And if that's really the case, we're on some pretty thin ice with a whole lot of locales within the Disney-verse that I could take the same argument with that have stories seemingly concocted at the last second before a blog post went up to promote it by someone in PR.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
... if you actually want to spend some time digging around, you'll learn that both The Grove and the Americana were both developed to actually resemble 1940's Charleston, South Carolina.

You're kidding?! I lived in Charleston in the 20th century, but not as far back as the 1940's. I would have never guessed that The Grove was based loosely on Charleston. King Street was the main shopping street downtown, both in the mid 20th century and today. Googling up King Street, I have learned that they now close the street to cars on Sundays for shopping. Which is funny because when I lived there Sunday was still only meant for Church and then family supper at home and no decent person of any color or creed would be caught "shopping" on the Lord's day, if any store had even been open for them, which they weren't.

Times have apparently changed in Charleston.

And I guess King Street does look a bit like The Grove. But still.... I'm thinking these mall designers just use loose assocations with whatever they think might strike a chord in a PowerPoint sales pitch. How odd that they latched onto "Charleston In The 1940's". :rolleyes:

2014-08-17-JJC_2400.jpg
 

britain

Well-Known Member
I'm putting it out there right now that I predict that the trackless vehicles are going to look like assorted land speeders and that you'll see other guests in speeders experiencing the adventure at the same time as you, but going off in different paths (that's part of the charm of trackless vehicle attractions like Mystic Point and Poohs Hunny Hunt).

Part of me wishes that at some point in the attraction your speeder gets "loaded" onto a big freighter of some kind which supposedly takes you to continue the chase on a different planet. It would be really nice if simulators weren't the only way to get taken to other SW worlds.
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
After doing some hard poking (HEY) I was able to confirm that the Marvel DCA project had been sidelined and is now back on track, as MiceAge said. Still don't have a projected timeline for it however.

I assume that decision was made in and around the BOD final budget approval of Star Wars at DL and the huge DHS and WDW at large spending package(s)?

I also assume it's the reason Joe Rohde was suddenly brought on the Marvel project in July? He doesn't seem like someone you bring onboard to simply execute a finished concept.

One last bit of 'connecting the dots', I bet a similar version of this will find its way to SDL's tomorrowland sooner than later.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
No matter how you try to intellectualize it public venues like The Grove are deemed fake in this discussion because, like Disneyland and the postmodernist architectural fads that followed, it exemplifies the pretend sense of place that these types of commercial developments attempt to achieve, which of course is 100% artificial.
Something very similar was also said about places now considered "real."

You can write however many theses you want on the subject, but at the end of the day, a whole boatload of people visit The Grove every day because it reminds them of Disneyland and Main Street and doesn't require an admission. It is a place that was developed by many veterans from within the themed entertainment industry and... if you actually want to spend some time digging around, you'll learn that both The Grove and the Americana were both developed to actually resemble 1940's Charleston, South Carolina.
The history of architecture and design is full of revivalism and reminders. Across the country Main Streets were cleaned up and revitalized based on the inspiration of Main Street, USA. The involvement of people from themed entertainment isn't a proof of being themed because that is really the only building field where the semiotics and forms of traditional building that were being rediscovered/explored early
Postmodern era continues to be utilized without having to be ironic or self-aware.

Also, not sure which dictionary you are using, but none that I've read say anything about something being "themed" needing to come equipped with a full backstory. And if that's really the case, we're on some pretty thin ice with a whole lot of locales within the Disney-verse that I could take the same argument with that have stories seemingly concocted at the last second before a blog post went up to promote it by someone in PR.
Story ≠ Full Backstory
 

yookeroo

Well-Known Member
The origins of Main Street, USA being reduced in commentary to just a shopping center are negative, often Marxist-oriented critiques that, unable to attack the resonance of its pre-Modern design and storytelling experience, had to reduce the Disneyland experience, by removing its storytelling component, to something already established and reviled, the shopping center. The shopping center is reviled because it contains commerce and pleasant (entertaining) design, components that from a Marxist construct only exist to reinforce the established superstructure in an attempt to hold off the inevitable class struggle, a new look for the old "bread and circuses." Some of the first places to receive such critiques were the boulevards of Paris because they were designed to be pleasant (entertaining) spaces where commerce could easily take place, but yes the city does not tell a story. Similarly The Grove does not tell a story but Main Street, USA does tell a story which is what makes it themed. All three use referential, pre-Modern design. The Grove gets tossed in with Disneyland because Postmodernism eventually reduced pre-Modern design elements to a sort of popular entertainment and did so by often actively invoking the design language of Disneyland while still ignoring its storytelling component. The Gove is only considered fake and different because it came after Modernism when such design was uniformly deemed fake.

Is there a version of Poe's Law for Disney sites? I can't tell if this is parody or not.

Clearly, by any common usage of the worm "theme", the Grove is themed.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Is there a version of Poe's Law for Disney sites? I can't tell if this is parody or not.

Clearly, by any common usage of the worm "theme", the Grove is themed.
Common usage of theme would then equate a room with some Star Wars posters and toys as the same as Star Tours or the upcoming Star Wars land. Having a theme does't make all things equal.
 

Californian Elitist

Well-Known Member
Common usage of theme would then equate a room with some Star Wars posters and toys as the same as Star Tours or the upcoming Star Wars land. Having a theme does't make all things equal.

Ha! So true nowadays.

Again, whether The Grove is themed or not, my reason for bringing up it up had nothing to do with theme.
 

Travel Junkie

Well-Known Member
5/3/16 Latest Miceage update dropped:

- Cuts due to Shanghai resulted in the closure of Paradise Garden Grill. Also CM's are not being hired for the busy summer season as what typically happens this time of year. Smaller CM staffing will also likely be a long term thing due to CA's minimum wage going up over the next several years.

- Food and Wine was a much bigger success than expected and count on it being bigger next year.

- Short of a Shanghai disastrous opening, Tower of Terror turning into a Marvel attraction appears to be happening. The plan is for it to close in the fall and be ready to open next May when DCA will host the premiere of Guardians 2.

- The rest of Marvel land is now slated to take over the rest of Hollywood land instead of the expansion pad behind Tower. Monster's Inc is likely a goner. The Marvel coaster is right now slated for 2020

- Overall expansion at DLR is the following: Guardian tower 2017, Star Wars in late 2018, Marvel coaster 2020, and Fantasyland expansion anchored by Frozen somewhere between 2021 and 2024

- MuppetVision is gone for good

- If Soarin over the world flops at DCA they may bring back the CA film to one of the theaters.

- DCA's attendance is actually over 10 million a year now instead of what TEA is reporting

http://micechat.com/125382-disneyland-guardians-of-the-tower/
 

Phroobar

Well-Known Member
You copied and pasted highlights from something everyone can go a read. A link would have been enough. You could have commented on each point.
 

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