Miceage Update 12/1/2015

[lazyboy97o]

Downtown Disney is such a dud. If Disney can make it like The Grove, I'd consider visiting.

It's interesting what management can do to a property. Downtown Disney did involve the architecture firm that worked on The Grove and Americana*, but never because a standard for lifestyle centers the way those two properties have been for years. It's even more amazing since the people at Disney behind Downtown Disney were supposed to be retail wizards brought over from Consumer Products...

Correction: Americana was by another firm.

 

[Cesar R M]

Wow, what a meaty update. So much to ponder there. I'm going to go back and read it again!

The executive news was very interesting. Some of it is good news, and some seems rather foreboding. Like the new DCA woman....

"Speaking of that mall, DCA and Downtown Disney will now be bundled together under a new VP who is really going to be the one to watch. Her name is Christie Fleischer, and until January she will remain in her current job as the Senior Vice President of Retail Development for Disney Consumer Products. But after the holidays Christie will take a demotion in title and become the Vice President of DCA & Downtown Disney. Christie has no previous experience with theme parks or the hospitality industry." -MiceAge

Cynthia Harriss, please call your office.

anyone can tell me why theres more and more marketing guys in park positions and less park experienced guys in said positions?
didnt this damage Disneyland a few years ago and WDW as well?

 

[TP2000]

anyone can tell me why theres more and more marketing guys in park positions and less park experienced guys in said positions?
didnt this damage Disneyland a few years ago and WDW as well?

Yup. Did you read the Miceage Update? They talk about that quite bluntly.

I wonder if Christie Fleischer even knows what she is getting herself into here? She's only worked for Disney Store since 2007, and she likely has no idea about the past history.

 

[TP2000]

It's interesting what management can do to a property. Downtown Disney did involve the architecture firm that worked on The Grove and Americana, but never because a standard for lifestyle centers the way those two properties have been for years. It's even more amazing since the people at Disney behind Downtown Disney were supposed to be retail wizards brought over from Consumer Products...

Really, the same architects that did The Grove did Downtown Disney? I hadn't heard that before. It's quite interesting.

Obviously this Christie woman wouldn't know anything about architecture or design since she is just a branding/merchandise person. Any more than she would know anything about theme park operations, or the Disneyland Show, or why Walt wanted it run a certain way, etc. So I wonder why they felt the need to put her in charge of the Downtown Disney remodel?

Or is it that's just where the empty spot was and Bob Chapek wanted to start moving his own people into Parks executive spots as they open up, wherever that may be? Hmm...

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Other than the big fountain centerpiece I've never found The Grove to be anything special and I much prefer the adjacent Farmer's Market, which is genuine and authentic. Besides, isn't The Grove mall basically Main Street or Buena Vista Street with a Nordstrom and an Apple Store? What would be the point of doing a period themed shopping complex in such close proximity to DCA and DL? Seems redundant to me.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Other than the big fountain centerpiece I've never found The Grove to be anything special and I much prefer the adjacent Farmer's Market, which is genuine and authentic. Besides, isn't The Grove mall basically Main Street or Buena Vista Street with a Nordstrom and an Apple Store? What would be the point of doing a period themed shopping complex in such close proximity to DCA and DL? Seems redundant to me.

There's no point in comparing The Grove to Farmers Market. One is an outdoor shopping center and the other is a food venue. They're not comparable AT ALL.

No, The Grove is not Main Street, nor Buena Vista Street. Who said anything about doing a "period themed shopping complex?" The Grove's architecture is what makes it nice and classy-looking. It's not about the shops, but aesthetics. Downtown Disney has absolutely nothing going for it. The Grove, on the other hand, is nice and pleasant to look at. Its aesthetics surpass that of DtD.

I think it's quite obvious which one is more pleasing to look at:

 

[TP2000]

I agree with @raven24 that The Grove has a better look and classier vibe than Downtown Disney. It's obvious they spent more money on The Grove.

I just checked and The Grove opened in February, 2002 - just one year after Downtown Disney. Obviously Disney took the cheaper way out with the aesthetic and details of their development. Compared to the disaster next door at DCA though, Downtown Disney in 2001 seemed classy and successful.

And yet Downtown Disney can't just be a mall. It's redundant with Main Street USA and Buena Vista Street being the retail-based opening and closing acts for both of those parks. Originally Downtown Disney was going to have several big anchors; ESPNZone, House of Blues, DisneyQuest, Rainforest Café, AMC Theatres, World of Disney. By 2016 several of those originally planned anchors will be absent, and those that remain are increasingly irrelevant or out of fashion.

They need to do something with Downtown Disney that makes it look better, but keeps it unique from the parks and the local mall.

 

[mickEblu]

I like the idea of a path from Critter Country to SWL. I just wish there was a way to start the path somewhere between Pooh and Hungry Bear and then have the path meet the river somewhere further North. From looking at the pic in the article it looks like the path is just going to extend from the current path from NOS. So if this is the case, when eating at Hungry bear instead of overlooking the water you ll be overlooking a path of people walking toward SWL? I don't like the sound of this.

Im Excited for something new at DLR but worried about the impacts to the ROA, and Critter Country / Big Thunder Trail ambiance. These are few of the last tranquil , back woodsy places left in the park. I'm still wishing instead of two simulator type rides for SWL they would of just green lit The Storm trooper chase attraction ( because that one sounds more unique) with the Endor speed bike coaster and then just move Star Tours over instead of the Falcon ride.

 

[TP2000]

anyone can tell me why theres more and more marketing guys in park positions and less park experienced guys in said positions?
didnt this damage Disneyland a few years ago and WDW as well?

No one seems to know.

I looked Christie up on LinkedIn tonight, and Miceage is right that she is currently a Senior Vice President with Consumer Products. But she's going to take a demotion to be a Vice President of a theme park??? That's kind of weird. Who would do that?

 

[britain]

No one seems to know.

I looked Christie up on LinkedIn tonight, and Miceage is right that she is currently a Senior Vice President with Consumer Products. But she's going to take a demotion to be a Vice President of a theme park??? That's kind of weird. Who would do that?

Wouldn't you? For all we know she's the biggest park fan in the world and she's been chomping at the bit for a chance to get her career moved over.

As much as I love the fan community, this prejudice against MBAs is pretty sad.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wouldn't you? For all we know she's the biggest park fan in the world and she's been chomping at the bit for a chance to get her career moved over.

As much as I love the fan community, this prejudice against MBAs is pretty sad.

If she was the biggest fan she would know the bad precedent set by those who previously made the transfer from Consumer Products.

 

[britain]

If she was the biggest fan she would know the bad precedent set by those who previously made the transfer from Consumer Products.

She probably does know about it. And may be determined to prove naysayers wrong.

Or she might be lousy. I'm just saying we do a lot of pre-judging around here.

 

[Californian Elitist]

They need to do something with Downtown Disney that makes it look better, but keeps it unique from the parks and the local mall.

YES. I shouldn't be able to buy the exact same merchandise from the parks in DtD. We need better food choices as well. I'd love to see Rainforest Cafe go.

 

[lazyboy97o]

She probably does know about it. And may be determined to prove naysayers wrong.

Or she might be lousy. I'm just saying we do a lot of pre-judging around here.

That sounds like a stupid idea for a game plan.

Disney doesn't promote idiots who work in stupid theme parks, there isn't much need for guessing. She was brought over because she is from a legitimate business unit and hasn't been sullied by the theme park nonsense

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Isn't Downtown Disney basically a ripoff of Citywalk?

 

[COProgressFan]

Wouldn't you? For all we know she's the biggest park fan in the world and she's been chomping at the bit for a chance to get her career moved over.

As much as I love the fan community, this prejudice against MBAs is pretty sad.

You may be right. Maybe she is a huge parks fan. Never heard of her til yesterday. She could have lots of great ideas for making guests happy and making lots of money for the company. We don't know yet. And there's certainly nothing wrong with MBAs. The parks need smart people to run the resort.

The problem is that there is a mindset in corporate America, and especially within Disney, that rewards folks for being "good executives", regardless of their background or experience, or whether they know anything about the department they are about to lead. Despite what top execs think, just because you have an MBA and play the corporate politics game does not automatically make you great at operating a theme park, or running a hotel, managing a transportation system, or developing a shopping district.

There are lots of smart people who can do a great job at doing any of those roles, but Disney's track record is spotty at best. Those of us who've been around long enough know all too well we've been down this road before. So we're always a bit skeptical. It really has nothing do with having an MBA.

 

[FigmentForver96]

Isn't Downtown Disney basically a ripoff of Citywalk?

I don't know about Disneyland but Orlando had Disney Villagr aka Downtown Disney before Universal even opened their doors.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

There's no point in comparing The Grove to Farmers Market. One is an outdoor shopping center and the other is a food venue. They're not comparable AT ALL.

What's wrong with comparing them? They both sit on the same swath of land, share parking facilities, and feature shops and restaurants. It's no different than comparing DCA and DL.

No, The Grove is not Main Street, nor Buena Vista Street. Who said anything about doing a "period themed shopping complex?"

With all the faux facades it certainly looks like a themed shopping complex to me, and very reminiscent of Main Street or Buena Vista Street. From this distance the marquee for the movie theater reminds me of the Animation building from Hollywood Blvd. at DCA.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The Grove is not at all a themed experience. Anything can go there and it doesn't view itself as something other than itself. It is merely called theme because Modernism still reigns supreme and pre-Modern forms and organization must be given a veneer of Postmodern self-reference and admitted fakery in order to retain legitimacy.

 

[Californian Elitist]

What's wrong with comparing them? They both sit on the same swath of land, share parking facilities, and feature shops and restaurants. It's no different than comparing DCA and DL.



With all the faux facades it certainly looks like a themed shopping complex to me, and very reminiscent of Main Street or Buena Vista Street. From this distance the marquee for the movie theater reminds me of the Animation building from Hollywood Blvd. at DCA.

Did you really just say comparing the Grove and Farmers Market is the same as comparing Disneyland and California Adventure? How can you possibly say those comparisons are similar. The Grove is a contemporary outdoor MALL. Farmers Market is a venue where outside vendors sell food and produce that was established in the 1930's. Sure, there are a few little shops, but it's not a mall.

The Grove is not themed. One should be able to look at the facades of the different shops and be able to realize that.