headhoncho34
Member
All of us our grown but im sure we have thing we all want to say to TDO which is ________ you!
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
MI2 Greenlighted! DHS Coaster Too?
- Thread starter jt04
- Start date
HMF
Well-Known Member
What happened to that savewdw.com that one of us suggested?
hoke2007
Active Member
:sohappy:
This is right on the money. TDO is absolutely terrible. They show little interest in constantly re-imagining/improving what they have. They are more than content with just reaping massive profits. It's disgusting and I'm not sure how Disneyland can be operated so differently than WDW.
djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
Completely disagree. The awesome Haunted Mansion refurb did nothing for attendance, so why would Pirates or Space Mountain?
You guys just dont get it. Disney has to space this stuff out. They're not going to announce a whole expansion of Fantasyland, and then also give us a new Star Tours and a new Monsters Inc coaster and then a whole new land for AK, etc. etc. There is no point to do that. People are going to come and see Fantasyland and Star Tours, so save the other stuff for a time when the hype of those things are dying. Its business 101.
These theme parks have to have room for expansion long after we're all dead and gone. Its going to continue on without us someday and Disney has to continue to think of that future.
I get it, I'd love for Disney to fix and utilize every Epcot pavilion like the rest of you and have them add a new attraction every year, but I understand why it doesn't happen. You guys act like its a bunch of guys sitting around trying to figure out how they can destroy their own theme park business. Its completely ridiculous!
djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
Completely different clientele. Californians go to Disneyland, the rest of the world vacations in WDW. I've been going to WDW for a decade now and have only mild interest in going to Disneyland, mainly because I know Im not going to spend a week there. For me to buy airfare, park tickets and a hotel stay for a weekend in Disneyland is just not my idea of a smart vacation decision. If Im going to go through all that, Im going to spend a week in WDW. So as has been stated 100 times over, Disneyland has to cater to the locals to keep them coming back. I have a Six Flags about an hour and a half from me and I will make the trip maybe once a year and sometimes not even that often. Why? Because they only have one new attraction every year. So once I've made that visit and seen the new thing, Im pretty much done with it for the year. If I ever do go a second time in a year, its when Fright Fest is going on, which alters the park atmosphere and makes it a mildly different experience. This same thing applies to Disneyland. It changes so often because they are forced to otherwise they would lose business.
misterID
Well-Known Member
Are you really trying to compare the HM refurb with a new attraction, or the huge refurb SM was going to get? I hope not. The Pirates refurb was going to be practically another attraction (another version of the ride, a scarrier version) inside the original and would have brought in scores of people. Both would have been heavily promoted, and there were already plans to do so. TDO cut it.
TDO didn't want the FL expansion, and I think that applied to ST2, not sure on that one. The only reason we're getting any of it is because their hands were forced and both attractions are clones. If it weren't for DL we wouldn't be getting anything new. You understand that, right? The one thing your bragging about and using as an example is something they didn't want.
There were several attractions that were coming to EPCOT, AK, DHS and MK. And they were cut. No ones saying add something every year. The other parks are adding new attractions, keeping their parks fresh and its paying off very well for them.
No one is saying TDO is trying to destroy anything. It helps to read. They don't want to do anything with WDW. They spend less money for their own financial interest. It has NOTHING to do with strategy for the parks. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. That's what's ridiculous.
TDO didn't want the FL expansion, and I think that applied to ST2, not sure on that one. The only reason we're getting any of it is because their hands were forced and both attractions are clones. If it weren't for DL we wouldn't be getting anything new. You understand that, right? The one thing your bragging about and using as an example is something they didn't want.
There were several attractions that were coming to EPCOT, AK, DHS and MK. And they were cut. No ones saying add something every year. The other parks are adding new attractions, keeping their parks fresh and its paying off very well for them.
No one is saying TDO is trying to destroy anything. It helps to read. They don't want to do anything with WDW. They spend less money for their own financial interest. It has NOTHING to do with strategy for the parks. N-O-T-H-I-N-G. That's what's ridiculous.
headhoncho34
Member
I was surprised when we got EE to tell you the truth.
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Beacuse these things keep the place feeling fresh, new, current, and innovative. If people come to the parks and find it in stale condition then they won't want to come back.
djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
First off, I wasn't comparing HM refurb with a new attraction at all. I don't even know where you got that idea? Your the one who was assuming that a refurb of Pirates was going to bring in SCORES of people or that a SM refurb would do the same, it wouldn't.
And how do you know that TDO didn't want the expansion of Fantasyland? Were you in the board meetings on that one? Oh right, we just take speculation on the internet as truth now. And I didn't see anywhere that I was bragging. In your words, it helps to read.
Whats the last attraction Disneyland added? Why is DCA getting so much attention now? Oh yeah, because it sucked. Hong Kong is getting new attractions, why? Because it was missing attractions and needed them badly. You act like these parks are getting attention because the people running them are just so awesome and don't care about budgets and profits. Gimme a break, are you all really that close minded now that you can't even see whats in front of your face? Take truth by what you see, not by what you read from people on the internet or get from hearsay.
And again, you say that noone is saying TDO is trying to destroy the parks but then you go on to say that they don't want to do anything with WDW and its all about the money for them, but then they have no strategy for the parks. This doesn't even make sense and is contradictory. The strategy for the parks is to make money by getting return visitors and to do that they have to spread out all the expansions and attractions for years to come, not blow their load all in one shot.
_Scar
Active Member
To get consumers, you must offer quality goods. To maintain consumers, you must maintain the quality of goods. To grow and gain even more consumers, you must add quality goods and maintain them.
sponono88
Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure the last major attraction at DL was Finding Nemo Submarine Voyage in 2007. They paid a very big chunk of money to get those submarines running again - it was a very big project. A lot of other projects/updates/shows here and there, but rides.. FNSV is the most recent.
about the DCA expansion. yes, the park didn't quite meet expectations in some people's eyes, but they could have gone cheap with the expansion and just added Cars Land. With a billion dollars worth of additions, it's obvious they didn't.
hoke2007
Active Member
I understand that Disneyland caters to different people (locals) than WDW does, I still don't see how that makes it okay that TDO refuses to invest in new, exciting attractions. I'm not implying that you think it's okay, by the way.
I'm just disappointed at what TDO doesn't do. Sure, they do an occasional rehab, but in comparison to what Disneyland does it's embarrassing. I want to see TDO make meaningful investments/additions at WDW. Because garbage like The American Idol Experience doesn't cut it.
misterID
Well-Known Member
There are several people here, on this very board, who have clear insight into what's going on and are pretty accurate. And I'll take their word over your opinions and business 101 any day of the week. And I've been around Disney corp for most of my life. We've done business with them. I know how TDO operates. You have no clue what you are talking about. And bragging maybe was the wrong word, citing is better.
DLR/DCA is getting new stuff now because there are new people in charge of Disney theme parks. That's why. Same reason we're actually getting the FL expansion and ST2. HKDL is getting stuff because the park is a disaster. The difference here is they haven't made changes at TDO yet... And hopefully they will.
The new SM would have brought in people. The new Pirates would have brought more people in. Why are you arguing that new updated attractions would not bring in big numbers? The SM refurb was going to be HUGE and heavily promoted. You cannot even compare it to the HM refurb. Do you understand this?... I'm missing why its so great the parks aren't frequently updated... And no. No one is saying anything about filling up the parks all at once. Nowhere has anyone said this. The other parks do it to stay cutting edge and relevant.
TDO is relying on tourism. They don't feel they have to add anything to the parks. Anything, repeat, anything. I know this for a fact. That's how I heard it 10 years ago, and "Going by what I see" that hasn't changed. They are operating on a system where they make bonuses by working their budgets. They make more money with the less they spend. Bringing in more guests does not matter to them. They don't feel they need to. WDW's attendance is up because of discounts, but no one is spending money there. TDL/DisneySea is evetually going to take WDW's place as the worlds most visited theme park. Tourists now have better Disney Parks to visit, closer to home. WDW isn't what it once was.
TDO sucks. Period.
edit: To be clear, I know there are some awesome people working inside TDO who have no control over what's happening and are just as upset about the way things are going as we are. I didn't mean to lump them all together. Despite some people, I think as a whole WDW is still a great park, with great employees and it still has a great future ahead of it
DLR/DCA is getting new stuff now because there are new people in charge of Disney theme parks. That's why. Same reason we're actually getting the FL expansion and ST2. HKDL is getting stuff because the park is a disaster. The difference here is they haven't made changes at TDO yet... And hopefully they will.
The new SM would have brought in people. The new Pirates would have brought more people in. Why are you arguing that new updated attractions would not bring in big numbers? The SM refurb was going to be HUGE and heavily promoted. You cannot even compare it to the HM refurb. Do you understand this?... I'm missing why its so great the parks aren't frequently updated... And no. No one is saying anything about filling up the parks all at once. Nowhere has anyone said this. The other parks do it to stay cutting edge and relevant.
TDO is relying on tourism. They don't feel they have to add anything to the parks. Anything, repeat, anything. I know this for a fact. That's how I heard it 10 years ago, and "Going by what I see" that hasn't changed. They are operating on a system where they make bonuses by working their budgets. They make more money with the less they spend. Bringing in more guests does not matter to them. They don't feel they need to. WDW's attendance is up because of discounts, but no one is spending money there. TDL/DisneySea is evetually going to take WDW's place as the worlds most visited theme park. Tourists now have better Disney Parks to visit, closer to home. WDW isn't what it once was.
TDO sucks. Period.
edit: To be clear, I know there are some awesome people working inside TDO who have no control over what's happening and are just as upset about the way things are going as we are. I didn't mean to lump them all together. Despite some people, I think as a whole WDW is still a great park, with great employees and it still has a great future ahead of it
headhoncho34
Member
TDO needs a new staff asap. WDW is a great park it just needs people that care about it running it.There are several people here, on this very board, who have clear insight into what's going on and are pretty accurate. And I'll take their word over your opinions and business 101 any day of the week. And I've been around Disney corp for most of my life. We've done business with them. I know how TDO operates. You have no clue what you are talking about. And bragging maybe was the wrong word, citing is better.
DLR/DCA is getting new stuff now because there are new people in charge of Disney theme parks. That's why. Same reason we're actually getting the FL expansion and ST2. HKDL is getting stuff because the park is a disaster. The difference here is they haven't made changes at TDO yet... And hopefully they will.
The new SM would have brought in people. The new Pirates would have brought more people in. Why are you arguing that new updated attractions would not bring in big numbers? The SM refurb was going to be HUGE and heavily promoted. You cannot even compare it to the HM refurb. Do you understand this?... I'm missing why its so great the parks aren't frequently updated... And no. No one is saying anything about filling up the parks all at once. Nowhere has anyone said this. The other parks do it to stay cutting edge and relevant.
TDO is relying on tourism. They don't feel they have to add anything to the parks. Anything, repeat, anything. I know this for a fact. That's how I heard it 10 years ago, and "Going by what I see" that hasn't changed. They are operating on a system where they make bonuses by working their budgets. They make more money with the less they spend. Bringing in more guests does not matter to them. They don't feel they need to. WDW's attendance is up because of discounts, but no one is spending money there. TDL/DisneySea is evetually going to take WDW's place as the worlds most visited theme park. Tourists now have better Disney Parks to visit, closer to home. WDW isn't what it once was.
TDO sucks. Period.
edit: To be clear, I know there are some awesome people working inside TDO who have no control over what's happening and are just as upset about the way things are going as we are. I didn't mean to lump them all together. Despite some people, I think as a whole WDW is still a great park, with great employees and it still has a great future ahead of it
imagineer boy
Well-Known Member
Agreed.
But not only that though, I think the teams at all the Disney parks have way too much creative and financial power. The main decisions for the parks should be comming from Burbank/Glendale while the teams focus on basic issues concerning the parks.
For the same reason you paint your house or give your car an oil change. It's not going to raise the value of your house (or car), but it's going to help you maintain the value of your house. That's why people do routine maintenance - to have something keep it's value.
In this instance, refurbs of classic attractions help maintain attendance (they prevent it from going down in the long-term). You don't want the parks (or resort) getting the reputation (that it is quickly earning) that management doesn't care about repairs, maintenance, cleanliness, painting, updating, etc - because it will make repeat customers think that Disney doesn't care about anything other than making a quick buck in the short-term and that, as the years go by, the parks aren't going to be up to the standards they once were (late 80s to early 90s). It diminishes the brand.
djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
There are several people here, on this very board, who have clear insight into what's going on and are pretty accurate. And I'll take their word over your opinions and business 101 any day of the week. And I've been around Disney corp for most of my life. We've done business with them. I know how TDO operates. You have no clue what you are talking about. And bragging maybe was the wrong word, citing is better.
DLR/DCA is getting new stuff now because there are new people in charge of Disney theme parks. That's why. Same reason we're actually getting the FL expansion and ST2. HKDL is getting stuff because the park is a disaster. The difference here is they haven't made changes at TDO yet... And hopefully they will.
The new SM would have brought in people. The new Pirates would have brought more people in. Why are you arguing that new updated attractions would not bring in big numbers? The SM refurb was going to be HUGE and heavily promoted. You cannot even compare it to the HM refurb. Do you understand this?... I'm missing why its so great the parks aren't frequently updated... And no. No one is saying anything about filling up the parks all at once. Nowhere has anyone said this. The other parks do it to stay cutting edge and relevant.
TDO is relying on tourism. They don't feel they have to add anything to the parks. Anything, repeat, anything. I know this for a fact. That's how I heard it 10 years ago, and "Going by what I see" that hasn't changed. They are operating on a system where they make bonuses by working their budgets. They make more money with the less they spend. Bringing in more guests does not matter to them. They don't feel they need to. WDW's attendance is up because of discounts, but no one is spending money there. TDL/DisneySea is evetually going to take WDW's place as the worlds most visited theme park. Tourists now have better Disney Parks to visit, closer to home. WDW isn't what it once was.
TDO sucks. Period.
edit: To be clear, I know there are some awesome people working inside TDO who have no control over what's happening and are just as upset about the way things are going as we are. I didn't mean to lump them all together. Despite some people, I think as a whole WDW is still a great park, with great employees and it still has a great future ahead of it
People don't drop $3 grand on a vacation because an attraction they've ridden before got a fancy refurb. Families do not make decisions like that. The decision is based on whether or not the trip can be afforded, when is everyone in available to go and do we really want to spend a week in Disney for this vacation. I will grant you that it can't hurt anyones decision but one 10 minute experience in a week long vacation is not a driving force behind why people go to WDW.
djkidkaz
Well-Known Member
And I agree with you that you definitely have to maintain the "show". Hence I have a FIX ME Yeti icon next to my name. The thing I find frustrating on this board is that most posters are never satisfied. We hear constantly how the special effects on Everest don't work, but then all of a sudden they are up and running again, then down, then up. Im sure Disney, like all of us would like to just have them up and running 100% all the time so they could stop having to shell out cash to fix it, but that tells me that they are concerned with the maintenance. Other things like the Yeti and the second waterfall are things I assume are going to be larger projects and not overnight fixes, so I understand that they will work on these when its feasible to close the parks main attraction for an extended period of time. And then theres other things that maybe just didn't work out effects wise once they were in the real world, like the mist spraying on the tracks in the caves, but people will harp on the fact that it doesn't work for years to come.
As far as cleanliness, I don't see how people can even complain. The Disney parks are still by far the cleanest parks in the world. Very rarely do I ever notice anything dirty in the parks, and if I do see something its usually at the resorts. And as far as painting, I think things look great. AK and the Studios look great, Epcot had painting in Future World done just last year and now the MK is getting completely repainted.
I feel like Im on a message board with a bunch of teens who think its the cool thing to say that "TDO SUCKS".
Here's how people can complain about cleanliness ... the parks used to be cleaner. End of story.
The parks used to be better maintained. Peeling paint was fixed when someone noticed it. Marks on the wall? Painted over immediately. Light bulbs replaced, etc. It's not a priority anymore.
http://www.imagineeringdisney.com/blog/2010/2/20/why-the-decline-in-park-maintenance.html
I didn't write this, but this blog post has some photo examples; this kind of stuff was never acceptable in the early to mid eighties.
But don't take my word for it. Here's Roy Disney's answer to a question ("Do you still visit Disneyland Park and what changes have you seen over the years?") from 2004:
We try to walk through the park when we can. I'm actually going to be down there week after next for a friend's birthday party so I'll get a chance to walk around a little bit. I've found that both here and in Florida, maintenance is not what it used to be. I think I see more and more junk on the ground that didn't get picked it up. It's like a reflex action, you know. We do it still. You see something there, you pick it up and throw it away. Bathrooms are not as clean as they used to be. We've seen light bulbs out and paint falling off and stuff. So I've seen a lot of things. It's not all good, but there's some good stuff, too...
When you ask Roy Disney what's the biggest change in the parks over the years, and his first thought is peeling paint, you know there's a problem. And it's not an insignificant problem.
I'm in my thirties. I think you'll find your premise to be the exact opposite in practice ... the (for lack of a better word) satisfied crowd typically skews younger, while the complaints more often then not come from the 30s and up crowd.