Meryl Streep Blasts Walt Disney at National Board of Review Dinner

[Voxel]

Thank you, and I agree. Do you know what xdan is talking about? Maybe you can help me out.

To be honest not really sure. I know I made a childish comment a while back (most of use do in something like this) but I am not sure where a fight was picked.

 

[xdan0920]

I'm just going to bite, because I really have no clue what you're talking about. Facts/evidence in regards to what?

Okay, fine. We will do this.

It's not unlikely he was racist. I bet he was. I bet if sheer proof came out he was racist, people would defend him and say "it was a sign of the times." That's no excuse.

You started with the above. Which is nonsense. You are just being inflammatory here. You have zero evidence to back up your statements. And by the way, you consider this an adult conversation?

Then this was posted by @the.dreamfinder

http://floydnormancom.squarespace.com/blog/2014/1/8/sophies-poor-choice
Sophie's Poor Choice
Two things are required of an actor, and indeed it’s not all that much to ask. They should know their lines and be able to hit their mark. To be sure, the life of an actor is seldom an easy one. The few that are blessed with fame and success should at least be grateful. And, they might be wise to guard unscripted remarks lest they appear foolish.

It would appear a number of people in Hollywood and elsewhere know a good deal about a studio that never employed them. They also seem to be quite knowledgeable about a man they never met. This is to be expected, of course. When it comes to history it appears everybody’s an expert. However, the history we’re currently dealing with is the history of the Walt Disney Studio and Walt Disney in particular.

I shouldn’t have to tell you this, but the America of the nineteen thirties and forties is hardly the America we know today. Much has changed, and changed for the better. However, we can’t erase the mistakes of the past nor should we. We already know women were not given the opportunities they deserved back in the thirties. This was not something practiced at Walt Disney Productions alone. This was true of American business in general. Despite that, the women of Disney’s Ink & Paint Department have told me they’ve never had a better job. Were they denied the opportunity to compete with the boys over in the Animation Building? You bet they were. In spite of that, during the war years, young women proved they had what it took to compete with the big boys. Even in the forties, Mary Blair, Retta Scott, Bianca Majolie and Sylvia Holland showed they too had the right stuff. By the fifties, talented young women filled the ranks of Walt’s animation department and their names are too numerous to mention. For example, ever hear the name Phyllis Hurrell? She ran one of Walt Disney’s successful commercial departments at the studio. This was the early days of television and she made a ton of money for the mouse. You probably wouldn’t believe that Uncle Walt had a woman production head back in the fifties, now would you?

Then there was Joe Grant, Dave Detiege, Lou Appet and Ed Solomon. There was Mel levin, Robert and Richard Sherman, and the list goes on and on. Can you guess where I’m going with this? Why were so many talented Jewish writers, song writers and artists employed at the Disney Studio? Did Walt simply not know? Yeah, he probably had no idea. I can also guess he had no idea why the young black man was in his story meetings. And, how did the famous “Hollywood racist” failed to notice Victor Haboush, Tyrus Wong, Dick Ung, Iwao Takamoto, Willie Ito, Ray Aragon and Ron Dias?

To be sure, Walt Disney had his faults like the rest of us. He was not a perfect man nor did we expect him to be. Like most of us, he continued to grow as he moved through life and in time he recognized women could compete alongside men. He knew that talent had no color or ethnicity and he judged people by their ability to do their job and do it well. Walt Disney was a man of his time, but he was determined not to be imprisoned by it. He dreamed of a better world and even had the audacity to try and build it. Hardly an American to be vilified. Walt Disney deserves to be celebrated.Walt Disney was a studio boss not a saint. Yet, in my fifty plus year career he was hands down the best boss I ever had.

You proceeded to ignore this first hand account, and stick to your invented idea that Walt Disney was probably racist. You keep beating that drum, waiting for someone to defend the racist. This way you can launch into a diatribe about racism in the mid/early 20th century.

As evidenced below.

This can't be compared to Song of the South, in my opinion. The portrayal of blacks as happy, toe-tapping, singing individuals in the 19th century is wrong. It's not a matter of stereotypes, like the photo above, but a matter of untruths. It's disrespectful.

Both are wrong. Disney made stereotypical and racist cartoon shorts as well. Not to mention books, one of them repeatedly using the "N" word. Warner Bros. wasn't the only one.

That's what I am talking about. No meme necessary. Adults don't need them to have adult conversations.

 

[Californian Elitist]

To be honest not really sure. I know I made a childish comment a while back (most of use do in something like this) but I am not sure where a fight was picked.

Which comment was that? You've been mature throughout this entire thread.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Okay, fine. We will do this.



You started with the above. Which is nonsense. You are just being inflammatory here. You have zero evidence to back up your statements. And by the way, you consider this an adult conversation?

Then this was posted by @the.dreamfinder



You proceeded to ignore this first hand account, and stick to your invented idea that Walt Disney was probably racist. You keep beating that drum, waiting for someone to defend the racist. This way you can launch into a diatribe about racism in the mid/early 20th century.

As evidenced below.



That's what I am talking about. No meme necessary. Adults don't need them to have adult conversations.

Oh, lordy lol, you're still on yesterday. These are the "facts" you keep bringing up? Now it all makes sense.

1. I already said what I wanted to say about yesterday's discussion, so there's that.

2. I didn't even read dreamfinder's post, so there's that. I never said Mr. Disney was a racist. I said "probably". Why you're having a fit over me saying Disney was "probably racist" is confusing me, but whatever. However, I did say Disney was racially insensitive, and I stand by that.

3. As I told you yesterday, take a chill pill. You're the only one getting y. The rest of us are having a nice discussion, and we're not going to stop because you have a problem with it/me. Good day, sir.

 

[xdan0920]

Oh, lordy lol, you're still on yesterday. These are the "facts" you keep bringing up? Now it all makes sense.

1. I already said what I wanted to say about yesterday's discussion, so there's that.

2. I didn't even read dreamfinder's post, so there's that. I never said Mr. Disney was a racist. I said "probably". Why you're having a fit over me saying Disney was "probably racist" is confusing me, but whatever. However, I did say Disney was racially insensitive, and I stand by that.

3. As I told you yesterday, take a chill pill. You're the only one getting y. The rest of us are having a nice discussion, and we're not going to stop because you have a problem with it/me. Good day, sir.

I am on this discussion. Yesterday AND today.

1. You still said those things.

2. I know you didn't. Why would you? It didn't support your baseless statements. I know what you said, why you said it is what's lost on me.

3. I am chilled. I just don't like what you did and are doing.

Before this gets out of hand....

I know you are one of the younger regular posters here, and typically I think you show a reasonably high level of maturity. In this case however, you are letting your personal feelings about race get in the way of this discussion. If you want to have a discussion about race relations in the 1930's I think you would be better off finding a different forum. This is not the place.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I am on this discussion. Yesterday AND today.

1. You still said those things.

2. I know you didn't. Why would you? It didn't support your baseless statements. I know what you said, why you said it is what's lost on me.

3. I am chilled. I just don't like what you did and are doing.

Before this gets out of hand....

I know you are one of the younger regular posters here, and typically I think you show a reasonably high level of maturity. In this case however, you are letting your personal feelings about race get in the way of this discussion. If you want to have a discussion about race relations in the 1930's I think you would be better off finding a different forum. This is not the place.

Once again, good day, sir.

 

[Gabe1]

Not at all I was just tying in a famous quote to show off that.

I am not a fan of the practice. JFK was so much after Disney used cartoons that children watched to

I am part-African American, I am more rubbed by the fact that it gets ignored as a technical masterpiece of film. Everything in Mary Poppins was done in Song of the South 20 years before. I think trying to hide it under the carpet makes the film much worst then it is (and yes there are parts that can/are offensive).

So do you believe most African American's would be excited for Song of the South to be re-released in theaters then? I have no frame of reference, I just can't imagine President Obama and Mrs Obama taking their children to the release nor can I imagine Oprah showing it to the girls in her Girls School. I'm thinking how politically incorrect a movie like this was trumps it being a technical masterpiece. I've seen the film but I cannot put my feet into the shoes of African American and claim they would be appalled by Song of the South being re-released. Me, Irish Catholic, extremely uncomfortable with Song of the South.

 

[Voxel]

Why do you find the need to twist the words of others using them. I have never once stated that African American's should be required to be excited for the film. If you truly find that this film is a tainted piece of art that should never see the light of day then I fear for you. Its art and whether or not people like it Walt had every right to create it and every person as the right to watch it if they want to make it their own assessment of the film. There are many more films that deserve to be hidden away and/or far more offensive then the Song of the South.
And actually there are a few situations where people admire the technical aspects over the moral aspects. Rise of a Nation is praised as the first full motion picture. It was sponsors by the Clan (which is usually over looked). We admire the technology we have but over look the fact that much of the ideas and concepts came from war in death.

 

[Gabe1]

Do I honestly need to answer this question?

'
No you do not.

 

[Gabe1]

Why do you find the need to twist the words of others using them. I have never once stated that African American's should be required to be excited for the film. If you truly find that this film is a tainted piece of art that should never see the light of day then I fear for you. Its art and whether or not people like it Walt had every right to create it and every person as the right to watch it if they want to make it their own assessment of the film. There are many more films that deserve to be hidden away and/or far more offensive then the Song of the South.
And actually there are a few situations where people admire the technical aspects over the moral aspects. Rise of a Nation is praised as the first full motion picture. It was sponsors by the Clan (which is usually over looked). We admire the technology we have but over look the fact that much of the ideas and concepts came from war in death.

I am not twisting. I was surprised by your statement that you qualified by saying you were African American.

 

[Voxel]

I am not twisting. I was surprised by your statement that you qualified by saying you were African American.

Well to be honest I got tired over everyone lumping us as an entire group, and stating that we as an entire group found the film racist.

 

[Gabe1]

Song of the South cannot b

Of course I'm right. Isn't that the goal of a business? To make money?
Without money, you can't produce product, pay bills or employees.
Why is this such a difficult thing for some people to understand? And why do those same people have to vilify it?

But, I think you're wrong about it being all about the money for him. He himself said, "Disneyland is a work of love. We didn't go into Disneyland just with the idea of making money." If I remember correctly, he did it for his daughters and others, "We believed in our idea - a family park where parents and children could have fun- together". And, he put everything he had on the line for both Disneyland and the studio he built. You can't honestly say he just did it for the money, not with that kind of drive and determination.

Certainly and that was my point too. Walt didn't mind crossing the line to make money. If he could make money releasing movies like Song of the South or the money or publicity for dressing his duck up like a Nazi he was all in. Women as professionals didn't interest him in his personal life or in business. Meryl wasn't really off in what she said, she just picked an odd time and place to voice her opinion.

 

[Californian Elitist]

'
No you do not.

Good. If you don't mind, please go back and read all of my posts. Do you think I'm trying to start a fight?

 

[Gabe1]

Well to be honest I got tired over everyone lumping us as an entire group, and stating that we as an entire group found the film racist.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make and I am trying to word this so I am not twisting what you are saying. What are you saying about Song of the South and it being racist? Or not racist? Disney can't release the movie again and have people just look at its technical wonders, you get the whole pie tech and the inappropriate tones of movie.

 

[Gabe1]

Good. If you don't mind, please go back and read all of my posts. Do you think I'm trying to start a fight?

I've been following the thread because I didn't have a problem with Meryl just the venue. I've read your comments. I can clearly see your intent and it is not what you are being accused of in my opinion. This is unfortunate. I don't come here to make people feel badly and I'm pretty sure you don't either. Let it go. Or that is also what the ignore button is for.

 

[Voxel]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make and I am trying to word this so I am not twisting what you are saying. What are you saying about Song of the South and it being racist? Or not racist? Disney can't release the movie again and have people just look at its technical wonders, you get the whole pie tech and the inappropriate tones of movie.

I truly believe that it should be released for public consumption. If people want to buy the film and watch it, it is their right. People are going to find something offensive in anything. Yes I do find some parts of the Song of the South offensive, but I still enjoy the film. I find it offensive that my Carpool this morning wanted to play Christian Radio that preached fire and brimstone, but I don't tell them they can't. If your not gonna release it then stop using Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah which is based off an old racist song and get rid of the Br'er influence in the parks. You can't go half#$@ about blocking it, You allow it or block all of it.
On an interesting somewhat related side note (Related because it deals with the freedom of speech for releasing a film or book) Mein Kampf is quickly become an e-book best seller.

 

[Californian Elitist]

I've been following the thread because I didn't have a problem with Meryl just the venue. I've read your comments. I can clearly see your intent and it is not what you are being accused of in my opinion. This is unfortunate. I don't come here to make people feel badly and I'm pretty sure you don't either. Let it go. Or that is also what the ignore button is for.

Thank you.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

The Walt Disney Family Museum has posted an official response. It's only available on Facebook for the time being because it crashed their severs!

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...1369.102286.100240186369&type=1&stream_ref=10
In light of the recent rumors that have been circulating, we would like to debunk misconceptions that have been told as bold, un-sourced statements and wildly false accusations. This is in defense of Walt:http://www.waltdisney.org/content/defense-walt-disney#TeamWalt!

It looks like our site/servers have crashed. While we are working to restore it, here is the text from the piece (we apologize for the inconvenience as images, hyperlinks, and stylization will be lost in the text block below). Thank you for your patience and for your support.


IN DEFENSE OF WALT DISNEY

In light of the recent rumors that have been spreading about Walt Disney, The Walt Disney Family Museum would be more than happy to debunk misconceptions that have been told as bold, un-sourced statements and wildly false accusations, as part of our mission to enlighten and educate.

WOMEN'S ROLES AT WALT DISNEY PRODUCTIONS:

In 1938, a letter was written from Walt Disney Productions to a female applicant, turning down her request to enroll in the Studio’s Animation Training Program. The letter, to the right, states that women did not perform the position of Animator at that time. What it did not say is that women were not capable of such work. This type of job restriction could be found not only at The Walt Disney Studios but at every other animation studio. Put into historical context, this letter illustrates the culturally accepted limited role of women in the workplace in the 1930s. At that time, most companies in America were mostly male-dominated with women providing smaller support roles. There were several prominent women within Walt Disney Productions, well before WWII made women the backbone of the American workforce. In speeches made to his employees on February 10 and 11, 1941, Walt observed that women artists could fully equal their male counterparts, and were being included in his studio animation training program:

“If a woman can do the work as well, she is worth as much as a man,” he declared. “The girl artists have the right to expect the same chances for advancement as men, and I honestly believe they may eventually contribute something to this business that men never would or could.”

Quite a few women played important roles at The Walt Disney Studios during Walt's time, including artist Mary Blair—whose work in the animation department at The Walt Disney Studios heavily influenced the look and feel of Disney films for almost 30 years. Blair started at the Studios in the early 1940s and worked on classics such as Cinderella, Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland, and more. She also assisted in the design of the Disneyland Resort attraction it's a small world, and a life retrospective of her work will be on view at The Walt Disney Family Museum starting March 2014. (Our current exhibition—Water to Paper, Paint to Sky: The Art of Tyrus Wong—focuses on the life's work of 103-year old Asian American artist Tyrus Wong, who also worked at The Walt Disney Studios in the 1940s. To find out more about Walt and diversity, please skip down to the next section).

To this day, there are quite a few women who worked at The Walt Disney Studios who will still happily recall stories from their time spent working with and knowing Walt Disney. Among these legendary women are Ginni Mack, Marge Champion, and Disney Legend Alice Davis—the costumer who played a large role in Disney history as she designed and hand-made a significant amount of costumes seen on the Audio Animatronics in a number of Disneyland attractions.

Learn more about a few of these women including Bianca Majolie, Sylvia Moberly-Holland, Rhetta Scott, and Mary Blair here; read more about the first female Imagineer, Harriet Burns, here.

It was even before the 1950s when they started recognizing the employment and importance of women at The Walt Disney Studios. Notably, Hazel Sewell served as an art director on Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, which was released in 1937—a year before the letter mentioned above was dated. Sewell also worked as an ink artist on the very first Mickey Mouse cartoon created in 1928, Plane Crazy, and was one of the artists who traveled to Latin America in 1941 as part of Walt's goodwill tour.

Other notable females, besides Walt's wife Lillian—who worked as an Inker & Painter before they married in 1925—were his Aunt Margaret, who provided Walt with his first drawing tablet and tools, and Margaret (MJ) Winkler, whose distribution deal with Walt's Alice Comedies allowed him to establish the Disney Brothers Cartoon Studios in 1923.


WALT DISNEY AND DIVERSITY:

Walt Disney was a patriot—one only has to look at his work throughout the 1940s to witness his tour of Latin America of behalf of the United States Good Neighbor Policy, the US Army's occupation of The Walt Disney Studios Lot, Walt’s countless military training films, which were made at cost, as well as shorts and films against the Axis like “Victory Through Air Power." The Studios even won an Academy Award in 1943 for the short film "Der Fuehrer's Face"—the easiest of Google searches will reveal the true patriotic message behind Donald Duck’s nightmare in “Nutzi Land."

Moreover, Walt not only employed many people of Jewish descent—including Joe Grant, Marty Sklar, Ed Solomon, Richard and Robert Sherman, and so many more who held prominent roles within Walt's company. These men and women collaborated and created with Walt, side by side, with no prejudice. Ask some of the people who worked directly with Walt Disney what it was like to work with him and his organization, such as a number of the women mentioned above or the men listed below.

In a recent interview, songwriter Richard Sherman states: “Let me tell you something, a lot of people talk about Walt in negative ways. There was nothing negative about Walt Disney,” he says. “He was dedicated to doing great things. He reached for the stars all the time. He was a wonderful, wonderful boss.”

This isn't the first time the Sherman Brothers have gone on record in defense of Walt. Some may also recall the story that Robert Sherman told about Walt's defending the brothers during a meeting: "Walt was sensitive to people's feelings . . . He hated to see people mistreated or discriminated against. One time, Richard and I overheard a discussion between Walt and one of his lawyers. This attorney was a real bad guy, didn't like minorities. He said something about Richard and me, and he called us 'these Jew boys writing these songs.' Well, Walt defended us, and he fired the lawyer. Walt was unbelievably great to us."

Walt was also a frequent contributor to Jewish charities, including the Yeshiva College and the Jewish Home for the Aged. Also, Walt Disney was made Man of the Year by the Beverly Hills Lodge of B’nai B’rith—the oldest continually-operating Jewish service organization, which fights anti-Semitism all over the world—in 1955, and was also awarded a recognition from Hadassah, a Jewish women’s organization that empowers youth in Israel and America. These awards can be seen in the Lobby of The Walt Disney Museum (or by clicking on the thumbnails above. Right: B'nai B'rith Heart of America Chapter, Kansas City, Missouri; Distinguished Service Citation, 1958. Left: Hadassah Recognition of Achievement, 1958.)

Our good friend and Disney animator Floyd Norman also has been quoted saying: "The funny part was that minorities weren't knocking at the gates to get in. The jobs were there if they wanted them and if they were qualified. It's like the old ruse that Walt didn't hire Jews, which was also ridiculous. There were plenty of Jews at Disney. Personally, I never felt any prejudice from Walt." In fact, we encourage you to read the blog piece he recently published addressing the same factual misconceptions that we discuss here.


DECEMBER 15, 1966:

Lastly, let's not forget to bust the most circulated (and possibly the most bizarre) myth of all. The Walt Disney Family Museum houses an entire gallery dedicated to the heartbreakingly sudden passing of Walt Disney—from acute circulatory lung collapse—on December 15, 1966. Two days later, Walt was cremated and interred at Forest Lawn Memorial Park in Glendale, CA. In fact, the only time the phrase "Disney's Frozen" is accurate is when it is in reference to the Walt Disney Animation Studios' new animated feature.


Of course there are still skeptics who think we are writing this through rose-colored glasses and that our views might be bias as The Walt Disney Family Museum was founded by Walt's daughter Diane Disney Miller. Despite this, the evidence is all there: through the facts as recorded through different accounts written down in history books; the first-person interviews from those who knew and worked with Walt; the physical and documented awards; and in the films he created. It's all there! And by there, we mean here, at The Walt Disney Family Museum. We happily invite all those who are still skeptical to visit the museum to learn about Walt, the man behind the brand, firsthand. There is no need for apologies or retractions—it's just important to seek the facts before further spreading inaccuracies and fueling rumors.

Walt Disney was not a saint. Walt was a human being who made mistakes and had many ups and downs throughout his life. His daughter, Diane, emphasized this many times, stating "what made HIM human is what makes YOU human." Walt suffered his fair share of failures, but he also had a strong spirit of creativity, innovation, and an optimistic outlook to keep moving forward. To those of you who have defended Walt—whether it is because you feel affection towards the man behind the brand, you are a fan of the entertainment company he founded or of his daughter's museum dedicated to his life story, or if you are just in pursuit of historical fact and truth—thank you. We appreciate that you, too, are working hard to make sure that Walt's life, work, and legacy live on and continue to inspire for generations to come.

It's true that everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion, but if you are still skeptical after looking over these facts presented above, we invite you to visit The Walt Disney Family Museum, or even send us your questions and concerns at storyboard@wdfmuseum.org. We would love to hear from you.


The Walt Disney Family Museum® Disney Enterprises, Inc. | © 2014 The Walt Disney Family Museum, LLC | The Walt Disney Family Museum is not affiliated with Disney Enterprises, Inc.

 

[Voxel]

The Walt Disney Family Museum has posted an official response. It's only available on Facebook for the time being because it crashed their severs!

Thank you for posting that.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I've been following the thread because I didn't have a problem with Meryl just the venue. I've read your comments. I can clearly see your intent and it is not what you are being accused of in my opinion. This is unfortunate. I don't come here to make people feel badly and I'm pretty sure you don't either. Let it go. Or that is also what the ignore button is for.

This also happened this week.

http://www.filmlinc.com/daily/entry...ve-steve-mcqueen-new-york-film-critics-circle
Less than a week after Harry Belafonte made headlines condemning the practice of stop and frisk with a speech at the inauguration of New York's new mayor Bill de Blasio, the award-winning actor and activist gave a stirring speech introducing director Steve McQueen last night at the 79th annual New York Film Critics Circle Awards at the Edison Ballroom in Midtown Manhattan. Belafonte's moving tribute to McQueen's 12 Years a Slave and the power of cinema—for both good and bad—received a standing ovation and sent Twitter ablaze. ...

His words were not universally felt in the room, however. NYFCC's tribute to McQueen, which came near the end of the evening, was marred by a heckler who shouted at the stage.

"F*** you, you're a garbage man and a door man," the heckler apparently said from the back of the room. The disturbance came from a table hosted by NYFCC member Armond White, a noted detractor of McQueen's film.