Meryl Streep Blasts Walt Disney at National Board of Review Dinner

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raven24

Well-Known Member
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and...that's where you go off the tracks...

Even tho they were treated as property by slave owners - and had conditions placed on them differently - it's not as if every slave lived their days chained to a stump. Humans, even under adverse conditions find their own escapes.

Would you be equally upset over medival peasants singing and dancing? They too had their lives controlled by their to their lord and were effectively slaves. Yet, like slaves, still evolved their own entertainment.. including song and dance.

Third, the film is a period of free men. Are blacks supposed to act sour and sad at all times because of their past?
Off the tracks? This is my opinion.

I didn't say Uncle Remus had to be chained to a stump.

I've never heard of medieval peasants being treated exactly like slaves in the US, so I wouldn't know.

Blacks may have been free from slavery after the Civil War, but it sure as heck wasn't sunshine and roses afterwards. I don't think I have to explain.

Flynn, are you African American? If you're not, I don't expect you to understand.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Off the tracks? This is my opinion.
An opinion you form based on your gross misunderstanding of the facts.

I didn't say Uncle Remus had to be chained to a stump.
No, but you've claimed that portraying black people in the 1800s as having any kind of happiness as wrong or distortion.

I've never heard of medieval peasants being treated exactly like slaves in the US, so I wouldn't know.
I'm sure you've heard of women being mistreated and treated like objects in modern times, both here and abroad. So is it wrong to show women singing or dancing now? Because... you seem to think because there is darkness in some part of people's lives... they must not have had any song or dance in their lives.

Blacks may have been free from slavery after the Civil War, but it sure as heck wasn't sunshine and roses afterwards. I don't think I have to explain.
Discrimination was still there for a 100 years... but suffering from discrimination does not make your entire life like the lowest moments experienced by yourself or others.

I'm sure your parents experienced some discrimination and hard times at points in their life.. do you think that made them incapable of any happiness or any emotion besides distraught?

You're made the point that showing blacks being happy or dancing is wrong. Your blanket accusations also fail to acknowledge that even during slavery, the slaves found entertainment of their own.. including song and dance. No one in the film is singing or dancing over work they are being forced to do as slaves. And yes, people sung and celebrated the same type of work slaves did... because even without slavery, it was how people survived. Substance living.

Flynn, are you African American? If you're not, I don't expect you to understand.
And the color of your skin makes you a historical expert on the lives of people in the late 1800s? This is exactly the type of thinking that turns people off. The fact that you share a trait with someone makes you more informed? It shows your argument is emotional, not rational, and you can't be objective about it.

A 20something who grew up in LA shares nothing in common with plantation slaves from the 1800s. Just like a white man who grew up in MD shares nothing in common with a white plantation owner from the 1800s.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
You haven't a clue what I'm thinking, but the truth hurts, so I get it.

Have a good day.
oy.

The truth? What truth? "Walt was probably a racist" that's truth? Your version of the truth, which in actuality is your misinformed opinion hurts no one but yourself.
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
An opinion you form based on your gross misunderstanding of the facts.



No, but you've claimed that portraying black people in the 1800s as having any kind of happiness as wrong or distortion.



I'm sure you've heard of women being mistreated and treated like objects in modern times, both here and abroad. So is it wrong to show women singing or dancing now? Because... you seem to think because there is darkness in some part of people's lives... they must not have had any song or dance in their lives.



Discrimination was still there for a 100 years... but suffering from discrimination does not make your entire life like the lowest moments experienced by yourself or others.

I'm sure your parents experienced some discrimination and hard times at points in their life.. do you think that made them incapable of any happiness or any emotion besides distraught?

You're made the point that showing blacks being happy or dancing is wrong. Your blanket accusations also fail to acknowledge that even during slavery, the slaves found entertainment of their own.. including song and dance. No one in the film is singing or dancing over work they are being forced to do as slaves. And yes, people sung and celebrated the same type of work slaves did... because even without slavery, it was how people survived. Substance living.



And the color of your skin makes you a historical expert on the lives of people in the late 1800s? This is exactly the type of thinking that turns people off. The fact that you share a trait with someone makes you more informed? It shows your argument is emotional, not rational, and you can't be objective about it.

A 20something who grew up in LA shares nothing in common with plantation slaves from the 1800s. Just like a white man who grew up in MD shares nothing in common with a white plantation owner from the 1800s.
You're right, there were slaves who sang and danced, but Unlce Remus comes off as an Uncle Tom, and it's off putting. That's all I'm trying to say. Like I said, I enjoy Song of the South and I hope Disney releases it one day. It does rub me the wrong way, a little.

Did I say I was an expert because I'm black? NO. Did I say being black automatically makes me more informed? NO. Did I say I share commonalities with my slavery ancestors from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries??? NO. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

As a black, although none of us were slaves and some of us didn't experience the Civil Rights Movement and before eras, there is still that connection and understanding. That's what I'm saying, but you want to jump to assumptions and say I think I'm an expert. No.
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
oy.

The truth? What truth? "Walt was probably a racist" that's truth? Your version of the truth, which in actuality is your misinformed opinion hurts no one but yourself.
I'm not even talking about that. I was referring to Walt Disney using stereotypes and being racially insensitive, which is truth. Trust me, it's not hurting me.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Premium Member
You're right, there were slaves who sang and danced, but Unlce Remus comes off as an Uncle Tom, and it's off putting. That's all I'm trying to say. Like I said, I enjoy Song of the South and I hope Disney releases it one day. It does rub me the wrong way, a little.

Did I say I was an expert because I'm black? NO. Did I say being black automatically makes me more informed? NO. Did I say I share commonalities with my slavery ancestors from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries??? NO. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

As a black, although none of us were slaves and some of us didn't experience the Civil Rights Movement and before eras, there is still that connection and understanding. That's what I'm saying, but you want to jump to assumptions and say I think I'm an expert. No.
Have you actually read the book?

If not, I'd suggest you should. Uncle Tom was a hero.

Are you aware of its history and the role it played in solidifying the death of slavery in the US?

Or are you just tossing out platitudes for the sake of it?
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
Have you actually read the book?

If not, I'd suggest you should. Uncle Tom was a hero.

Are you aware of its history and the role it played in solidifying the death of slavery in the US?

Or are you just tossing out platitudes for the sake of it?
I'm aware of it all. Did you know African Americans aren't fond of "Uncle Toms"?
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You're right, there were slaves who sang and danced, but Unlce Remus comes off as an Uncle Tom, and it's off putting. That's all I'm trying to say. Like I said, I enjoy Song of the South and I hope Disney releases it one day. It does rub me the wrong way, a little.
Ok, but the way you are voicing that uneasiness extends way beyond that.

Did I say I was an expert because I'm black? NO. Did I say being black automatically makes me more informed? NO. Did I say I share commonalities with my slavery ancestors from the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries??? NO. Why are you putting words in my mouth?
When you value your opinion more than someone else's simply because you are black and they are not... that's exactly what you are saying. You're saying someone can't relate the same purely based on skin color. Skin color does not give you any more connection to people who lived 150+ years ago, no more insight into their lives, or make you any more literate on the topic.

Nevermind things that might actually give some insight.. like living in the area where slavery actually happened and the economy was still based on the same agricultural industry. Where people still believe in the ideals that lead to the confederacy. Where real rednecks actually still exist.. with all their prejudices intact. Where history is around us every day... from national battlefield sites... to the fact every major road is named for CONFEDERATE generals. Where history is a popular regional topic - since we live in the cradle of our country... from the settlement, to the revolution, to 9/11. Oh, and the fact that history may actually be something the person has studied.

No, instead you decide SKIN COLOR is a factor in someone's exposure, literacy, and understanding of a topic with responses like this...

Flynn, are you African American? If you're not, I don't expect you to understand.
That's whats deplorable.

As a black, although none of us were slaves and some of us didn't experience the Civil Rights Movement and before eras, there is still that connection and understanding. That's what I'm saying, but you want to jump to assumptions and say I think I'm an expert. No.
An emotional attachment - not a real attachment. The attachment exists because you chose to make it, not because it is inherent or one of substance. It is one constructed of CHOICE. Just like I chose not to have an association with plantation owners... yet we live in the same area and share the same skin color. No one says 'white men have a connection and understanding with the hate and backlash plantation owners faced because we are both white'... no more than people make the same association with confederates simply because they are white and come from southern states. People choice to make such associations for themselves.
 

englanddg

One Little Spark...
Premium Member
I'm aware of it all. Did you know African Americans aren't fond of "Uncle Toms"?
Yes. Like I said, a platitude. If you actually read the book, the man did his best to protect those he loved in a more than challenging and tragic situation.

The true life story (an escaped slave who moved to Canada) is an even more inspiring tale.

If you can't respect that and rather choose to latch onto an ignorant popular definition of the character based on lack of general education or introspection for whatever reason, that is your choice.

But, it doesn't change the story.
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
Ok, but the way you are voicing that uneasiness extends way beyond that.



When you value your opinion more than someone else's simply because you are black and they are not... that's exactly what you are saying. You're saying someone can't relate the same purely based on skin color. Skin color does not give you any more connection to people who lived 150+ years ago, no more insight into their lives, or make you any more literate on the topic.

Nevermind things that might actually give some insight.. like living in the area where slavery actually happened and the economy was still based on the same agricultural industry. Where people still believe in the ideals that lead to the confederacy. Where real rednecks actually still exist.. with all their prejudices intact. Where history is around us every day... from national battlefield sites... to the fact every major road is named for CONFEDERATE generals. Where history is a popular regional topic - since we live in the cradle of our country... from the settlement, to the revolution, to 9/11. Oh, and the fact that history may actually be something the person has studied.

No, instead you decide SKIN COLOR is a factor in someone's exposure, literacy, and understanding of a topic with responses like this...



That's whats deplorable.



An emotional attachment - not a real attachment. The attachment exists because you chose to make it, not because it is inherent or one of substance. It is one constructed of CHOICE. Just like I chose not to have an association with plantation owners... yet we live in the same area and share the same skin color. No one says 'white men have a connection and understanding with the hate and backlash plantation owners faced because we are both white'... no more than people make the same association with confederates simply because they are white and come from southern states. People choice to make such associations for themselves.
Boy, you've got it all wrong, because that is not what I'm saying. Not only in my family, but I've heard with other black families as well, we have discussions about our past and our history. My mom and dad always told me to reflect on the past and never forget it. Acknowledge and appreciate where I come from, recognize the lengths people went for me to get where I am now. My dad encouraged me to take an African American history class, and I did. My professor told me the same things my parents told me. THAT is what I'm talking about. It is personal. Have you ever had deep discussions like that about your ethnic race? I'm curious.
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
Yes. Like I said, a platitude. If you actually read the book, the man did his best to protect those he loved in a more than challenging and tragic situation.

The true life story (an escaped slave who moved to Canada) is an even more inspiring tale.

If you can't respect that and rather choose to latch onto an ignorant popular definition of the character based on lack of general education or introspection for whatever reason, that is your choice.

But, it doesn't change the story.
I know what Uncle Tom did. The "Uncle Tom" term has grown into another definition for blacks. Just because its grown into another definition, it means we're totally ignorant of its origins? Uncle Tom is a character in a fictional story and it now refers to something else. Just because it refers to something else, it doesn't mean its original roots are automatically dismissed.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Boy, you've got it all wrong, because that is not what I'm saying.
Maybe not what you are intending - but it is what you are saying with those words. When you chose to disqualify someone BASED ON THEIR SKIN COLOR (which is word for word.. what you were asking) you are saying without the skin color you can't relate. Which ironically.. is full on racist in itself... judging people based on skin color.

Not only in my family, but I've heard with other black families as well, we have discussions about our past and our history. My mom and dad always told me to reflect on the past and never forget it. Acknowledge and appreciate where I come from, recognize the lengths people went for me to get where I am now. My dad encouraged me to take an African American history class, and I did. My professor told me the same things my parents told me. THAT is what I'm talking about. It is personal. Have you ever had deep discussions like that about your ethnic race? I'm curious.
Yes... because slavery was not just about the people who were oppressed, but those who were doing the oppressing! Never mind civil rights and all the discrimination that was prevalent in the areas and lives we actually experienced... not people 150+ years ago. My family is from a blue collar city. My grandparents still refer to black people 'as colored people' and discuss 'when the colored people started moving in' and the changing of Baltimore from the 40s to the urban decay of the 70s/80s.

You don't have to be black to relate or be informed about the social issues of this country now or in the past. Nor does being black make you more in tune to what happened to people completely disconnected from you. Knowledge, experience, and exposure are what matter.
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
Maybe not what you are intending - but it is what you are saying with those words. When you chose to disqualify someone BASED ON THEIR SKIN COLOR (which is word for word.. what you were asking) you are saying without the skin color you can't relate. Which ironically.. is full on racist in itself... judging people based on skin color.



Yes... because slavery was not just about the people who were oppressed, but those who were doing the oppressing! Never mind civil rights and all the discrimination that was prevalent in the areas and lives we actually experienced... not people 150+ years ago. My family is from a blue collar city. My grandparents still refer to black people 'as colored people' and discuss 'when the colored people started moving in' and the changing of Baltimore from the 40s to the urban decay of the 70s/80s.

You don't have to be black to relate or be informed about the social issues of this country now or in the past. Nor does being black make you more in tune to what happened to people completely disconnected from you. Knowledge, experience, and exposure are what matter.
You keep saying the same thing. I keep telling you those aren't my intentions. Think what you want, Flynn. I'm not disqualifying anyone based on skin color.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
You keep saying the same thing. I keep telling you those aren't my intentions. Think what you want, Flynn.
Maybe you should consider what you write?

You sound like the guy standing in front of the TV cameras defending himself after getting busted for something - "No, I'm not racist, I just caught caught doing something that could be perceived as racist.... but really, I'm not. I have lots of black friends..."

If those aren't your intentions you should reconsider your actions. Discrimination works both ways.
 

raven24

Well-Known Member
Maybe you should consider what you write?

You sound like the guy standing in front of the TV cameras defending himself after getting busted for something - "No, I'm not racist, I just caught caught doing something that could be perceived as racist.... but really, I'm not. I have lots of black friends..."

If those aren't your intentions you should reconsider your actions. Discrimination works both ways.
Okay, Flynn.
 
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