Masks at WDW

[GoofGoof]

I'm offended about being lied to, but it has nothing to do with politics. When you lie to people, you lose credibility. I understand that some people on this board are deeply divided on politics and tend to see everything through that lens, but I don't find that's the case with the general public. Just my view.

None of that has anything to do with the current requirement of masks at WDW or any other place.

If we want to blame Fauci or Pence or Trump or someone in the federal government for lying about masks to the public that’s fine. That’s politics. It’s a valid discussion and I‘m not interested In defending the action. It also doesn’t change the fact that masks combined with other measures help slow the spread of the virus.

 

[Parker in NYC]

I'm offended about being lied to, but it has nothing to do with politics. When you lie to people, you lose credibility. I understand that some people on this board are deeply divided on politics and tend to see everything through that lens, but I don't find that's the case with the general public. Just my view.

Please. Offended? I can only laugh. Ha ha. The lengths people are going through to avoid wearing masks. Now, that’s offensive. At least to me. At 10:58 am on a Tuesday.

 

[Chi84]

None of that has anything to do with the current requirement of masks at WDW or any other place.

If we want to blame Fauci or Pence or Trump or someone in the federal government for lying about masks to the public that’s fine. That’s politics. It’s a valid discussion and I‘m not interested In defending the action. It also doesn’t change the fact that masks combined with other measures help slow the spread of the virus.

What I meant, though, is that outside of this board what I'm hearing is that the medical experts lied in order to keep people from hoarding masks. It's not so much tied to politicians or political parties. The discussions concerning the ethical implications of lying to people during a pandemic are not necessarily tied to politics. It definitely is here though, where posters seem to know each other and their political leanings from posts on various topics.

 

[GoofGoof]

What I meant, though, is that outside of this board what I'm hearing is that the medical experts lied in order to keep people from hoarding masks. It's not so much tied to politicians or political parties. The discussions concerning the ethical implications of lying to people during a pandemic are not necessarily tied to politics. It definitely is here though, where posters seem to know each other and their political leanings from posts on various topics.

Back in March the initial recommendation was that anyone who was taking care of someone who was positive or positive themselves should wear a mask to help avoid spread so they were not saying masks didn’t work. The general public was not recommended to wear a mask out in public because the positive benefit over the negatives (there’s pros and cons still to this day) were not enough to warrant it. Adding to the situation was the extreme shortage of masks even for medical professionals. People were hoarding. There were stories of nurses in NYC hospitals wearing cloth masks because they couldn’t even get the cheap paper ones. So with what was thought of as limited positive benefit combined with fear of hoarding and shortages they recommended the general public not wear masks all the time. Flash forward a month into April and as more was learned about asymptomatic spread the CDC changed their stance and recommended face coverings to prevent an asymptomatic person from spreading the virus. All of this is well documented and I’m pretty sure everyone knows it.

 

[larryz]

Back in March the initial recommendation was that anyone who was taking care of someone who was positive or positive themselves should wear a mask to help avoid spread so they were not saying masks didn’t work. The general public was not recommended to wear a mask out in public because the positive benefit over the negatives (there’s pros and cons still to this day) were not enough to warrant it. Adding to the situation was the extreme shortage of masks even for medical professionals. People were hoarding. There were stories of nurses in NYC hospitals wearing cloth masks because they couldn’t even get the cheap paper ones. So with what was thought of as limited positive benefit combined with fear of hoarding and shortages they recommended the general public not wear masks all the time. Flash forward a month into April and as more was learned about asymptomatic spread the CDC changed their stance and recommended face coverings to prevent an asymptomatic person from spreading the virus. All of this is well documented and I’m pretty sure everyone knows it.

The WDW mask recommendations are based on scientists' advice. If the scientists lied then, how do we know they're not lying now?

How are we to know what's true?

 

[GoofGoof]

The WDW mask recommendations are based on scientists' advice. If the scientists lied then, how do we know they're not lying now?

How are we to know what's true?

But that’s my point. There’s nothing scientific that says the masks are not effective. The argument against them is simply that someone lied in March so they must be lying now. There’s no evidence that they are lying now.

 

[Chi84]

But that’s my point. There’s nothing scientific that says the masks are not effective. The argument against them is simply that someone lied in March so they must be lying now. There’s no evidence that they are lying now.

Yet another argument against lying.

 

[larryz]

But that’s my point. There’s nothing scientific that says the masks are not effective. The argument against them is simply that someone lied in March so they must be lying now. There’s no evidence that they are lying now.

There wasn't then, either.

Don't get me wrong, I've felt masks are important since early March. But that was based on the paltry and often conflicting information we were getting thru the media and their interpretation/opinions about what was going on.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

But that’s my point. There’s nothing scientific that says the masks are not effective. The argument against them is simply that someone lied in March so they must be lying now. There’s no evidence that they are lying now.

Fauci made two separate and distinct points in March.

Point one is that masks are useless and you shouldn't buy them. This was a lie to curb the rush on PPE that was causing shortages.

Point two is that masks have trade-offs, including the fact that people aren't washing them and they encourage people to touch their faces to fidget with them constantly. This was never a lie and is still true today.

 

[GoofGoof]

Yet another argument against lying.

There wasn't then, either.

Don't get me wrong, I've felt masks are important since early March. But that was based on the paltry and often conflicting information we were getting thru the media and their interpretation/opinions about what was going on.

I’m not advocating that the government should lie and I’m certainly not trying to defend this administration or the federal government. I can see why anything they say is taken with a great deal of skepticism.

On the mask issue I think it’s pretty simple. I haven’t seen a whole lot of scientific evidence that they don’t work. There’s certainly plenty of debate on how effective they are and that’s fine, but at the end of the day still better than nothing. Look no further than the case loads in states with mask rules along with social distancing and those without. It’s fairly obvious they are doing some good.

 

[GoofGoof]

Fauci made two separate and distinct points in March.

Point one is that masks are useless and you shouldn't buy them. This was a lie to curb the rush on PPE that was causing shortages.

Point two is that masks have trade-offs, including the fact that people aren't washing them and they encourage people to touch their faces to fidget with them constantly. This was never a lie and is still true today.

Either way, still completely irrelevant to masks at WDW.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Look no further than the case loads in states with mask rules along with social distancing and those without. It’s fairly obvious they are doing some good.

Uh...what? The states with the strictest mask rules have generally been hit the hardest (CT, NY, and NJ leading the way).

 

[GoofGoof]

Uh...what? The states with the strictest mask rules have generally been hit the hardest (CT, NY, and NJ leading the way).

Current case load. There were no mask rules until end of April anywhere.

 

[larryz]

Well, the science behind the recommendations is tainted. But the common sense isn't.

Yes, I'd go to WDW in a mask.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Either way, still completely irrelevant to masks at WDW.

It's absolutely relevant.

In favor of masks: Some evidence suggests they're effective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they're effective.
Against masks: Some evidence suggests they're ineffective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they maybe counter-productive.

The ledger is balanced to begin with.

Tiebreaker: I don't feel like it.

You act like the debate is between stacked pro-mask evidence on one side versus convenience and comfort on the other side, but that's not accurate. There's very little evidence on either side and the evidence that does exist tells both stories. The convenience and comfort argument is not a trump (pun intended) card, it's a tiebreaker.

Well, the science behind the recommendations is tainted. But the common sense isn't.

Yes, I'd go to WDW in a mask.

Just curious. If Magic Kingdom were open tomorrow with no COVID-19 rules whatsoever, would you stay home, go without a mask, or go with a mask?

 

[larryz]

It's absolutely relevant.

In favor of masks: Some evidence suggests they're effective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they're effective.
Against masks: Some evidence suggests they're ineffective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they maybe counter-productive.

The ledger is balanced to begin with.

Tiebreaker: I don't feel like it.

You act like the debate is between stacked pro-mask evidence on one side versus convenience and comfort on the other side, but that's not accurate. There's very little evidence on either side and the evidence that does exist tells both stories. The convenience and comfort argument is not a trump (pun intended) card, it's a tiebreaker.


Just curious. If Magic Kingdom were open tomorrow with no COVID-19 rules whatsoever, would you stay home, go without a mask, or go with a mask?

Mask. I mask any time I'm likely to get closer than 6 feet to other people outside my immediate circle. I might be asymptomatic.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's absolutely relevant.

In favor of masks: Some evidence suggests they're effective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they're effective.
Against masks: Some evidence suggests they're ineffective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they maybe counter-productive.

The ledger is balanced to begin with.

Tiebreaker: I don't feel like it.

You act like the debate is between stacked pro-mask evidence on one side versus convenience and comfort on the other side, but that's not accurate. There's very little evidence on either side and the evidence that does exist tells both stories. The convenience and comfort argument is not a trump (pun intended) card, it's a tiebreaker.


Just curious. If Magic Kingdom were open tomorrow with no COVID-19 rules whatsoever, would you stay home, go without a mask, or go with a mask?

I personally haven’t seen any evidence that masks don’t work at all or are counter-productive. I fully admit there’s no definitive scientific study that proves the exact effectiveness...and there never will be.

I see it more as “I don’t feel like it“ so I’m looking for some way to support that. I’m going to point to a political “gotcha” statement from March or the argument that there’s no definitive scientific study showing the exact percent of mask’s effectiveness so therefore we shouldn’t require them.

I would absolutely not go to MK without a mask rule.

 

[Chi84]

It's absolutely relevant.

In favor of masks: Some evidence suggests they're effective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they're effective.
Against masks: Some evidence suggests they're ineffective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they maybe counter-productive.

The ledger is balanced to begin with.

Tiebreaker: I don't feel like it.

You act like the debate is between stacked pro-mask evidence on one side versus convenience and comfort on the other side, but that's not accurate. There's very little evidence on either side and the evidence that does exist tells both stories. The convenience and comfort argument is not a trump (pun intended) card, it's a tiebreaker.


Just curious. If Magic Kingdom were open tomorrow with no COVID-19 rules whatsoever, would you stay home, go without a mask, or go with a mask?

If the virus situation is at the point where Disney requires masks I won’t go. Not interested in paying for that kind of experience and I wouldn’t feel any safer if people were wearing masks than if they were not.

 

[m3000]

In favor of masks: Some evidence suggests they're effective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they're effective.
Against masks: Some evidence suggests they're ineffective and experts have offered anecdotal descriptions of how they maybe counter-productive.

These are not equivalent... there continues to be more and more evidence that masks make a significant dent in infection rates, and while not perfect, it's something everyone needs to do to be a part of controlling the spread. It's not about the person wearing the mask, it's preventing that person from unknowingly spreading it to others.

Anyways, going to a theme park in the middle of a pandemic seems like a pretty bad idea to me, and really bad for the workers who have to put up with that, and so as long as masks are something recommended, I'm fine waiting.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Anyways, going to a theme park in the middle of a pandemic seems like a pretty bad idea to me, and really bad for the workers who have to put up with that, and so as long as masks are something recommended, I'm fine waiting.

That's kind of my point. If you don't GO to a theme park, there's a 0% chance you pick up a virus at a theme park.