Masks at WDW

[HongKongFooy]

I expect an injunction coming around until the county can put forth a compelling reason to limit the freedom of expression of healthy people.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't necessarily disagree, but the WHO document lists that same problem as a disadvantage of wearing masks, and the document is only a few weeks old.

There are pros and cons. Thats not in dispute. Disney allowing people to walk around, take their mask down and drink isn’t the best solution. Keeping the mask on unless you are at a table physically distanced is the best option (or not opening the parks). Whoever is making the call at Disney probably weighed the negative of someone removing and replacing their mask vs someone not being able to drink in the FL sun and decided to allow it. As much as I know people don’t want to hear it even partial compliance is better than none.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I expect an injunction coming around until the county can put forth a compelling reason to limit the freedom of expression of healthy people.

What the hell does it have to do with “expression”??

The problem is that science cannot prove that the person not wearing the mask isn’t a threat to all the others...which is why it’s not a “personal liberty” question

 

[HongKongFooy]

Sirwalter, extending an order to private citizens in public spaces vs compelling businesses to operate with masks are night and day legal issues. Compelling business will fly(if challenged I bet it will hold up) I'm not sure about compelling people walking on streets. One is commercial regulation and the other is not.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Sirwalter, extending an order to private citizens in public spaces vs compelling businesses to operate with masks are night and day legal issues. Compelling business will fly(if challenged I bet it will hold up) I'm not sure about compelling people walking on streets. One is commercial regulation and the other is not.

Yeah...well they don’t teach the “common sense” class in either law school or public policy....

...just saying

 

[Lilofan]

Not so fast with that........there are a series of lawsuits being filed to challenge these unilateral, unpreceded orders. We will see if indeed the order is constitutional at the state level.

Just because an official declares something does not necessarily make it public policy. It may stick or it may not.

There are also signs in front of businesses. " No mask, No Service ".

 

[GoofGoof]

There are also signs in front of businesses. " No mask, No Service ".

A business has every right to require a mask to enter their premise. No court can or will stop that. The only thing that could maybe be challenged is the legality of the government imposing the rule on all businesses. I don’t think that’s a very easy win either. These cases on forcing full closures of businesses were thrown out of court so I wouldn’t hold my breath on one coming through now.

 

[HongKongFooy]

There are also signs in front of businesses. " No mask, No Service ".

True..... and very legal. An operator has every right to require those entering to wear as long as it is square with ADA.

I can easily see someone successfully invoking that pesky ADA discrimination/compliance angle in specific cases.

 

[Chi84]

I’m not sure too many businesses would require masks absent a government mandate. Businesses need customers, and few business owners will be happy driving them away or acting as the mask police. My son manages a large chain drugstore in California. There are signs saying masks are required for entry, but the employees are being told not to enforce the rule. Probably out of fear that some lunatic will shoot them.

 

[MyAdventureBook]

A business has every right to require a mask to enter their premise. No court can or will stop that. The only thing that could maybe be challenged is the legality of the government imposing the rule on all businesses. I don’t think that’s a very easy win either. These cases on forcing full closures of businesses were thrown out of court so I wouldn’t hold my breath on one coming through now.

Which cases were thrown out of court? There are many, many cases still pending regarding shutdowns. We only wish the legal system could work as quickly as you imply. While the government does have some power to forcefully close businesses, there are strong arguments about the arbitrary nature of which businesses had to close and which didn’t. Lawsuits against government (and many other businesses) relating to COVID-19 will continue for a long time into the future. Very little if anything has been fully decided.

There is also at least one case still pending about a business’s ability to require masks for people with disabilities (Giant Eagle sued in Pennsylvania) so businesses may not have a right to require all to wear masks.

 

[HongKongFooy]

Lawsuits against government (and many other businesses) relating to COVID-19 will continue for a long time into the future. Very little if anything has been fully decided.

Absolutely......
there are complaints coming down the pipeline in different states and in different US circuit courts, some with legs and I'm sure some lacking merit. Mandatory shutdown, stay home orders, congregating peacefully in public issues are unsettled as well as masking private folk on public streets. We are navigating new legal territory here. Things are far from settled.

 

[MyAdventureBook]

Public health is not an issue of “constitutionality”...that’s the kind of 3rd world trick reserved for juntas.

Personal choice doesn’t hold precedence over other people health.

Just my opinion

Then you must also be a strong advocate for bans on alcohol, cigarettes, cars, sugar, and fast food. Because those, too, cause great damage to public health- and often to the health of innocent others, like unborn babies and even children who feel the effects of their parents’ poor nutritional choices.

Oh- and if the public health must always trump personal freedom, you must also fully support a condom mandate. Have you actively advocated for that?

I can see the YouTube videos now on how to make your own from a sock. Very effective.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Then you must also be a strong advocate for bans on alcohol, cigarettes, cars, sugar, and fast food. Because those, too, cause great damage to public health- and often to the health of innocent others, like unborn babies and even children who feel the effects of their parents’ poor nutritional choices.

Oh- and if the public health must always trump personal freedom, you must also fully support a condom mandate. Have you actively advocated for that?

I don’t put personal protective equipment - which have no documented negative side effects if used properly - on the level with any of those things you mention with studied negative side effects...

...and like you wouldn’t BELIEVE...but I’m older and it was more dangerous in the “proving grounds” in my day
(Yes...you went there...you shouldn’t have...but I bet you won’t make that mistake again? )

Just to be clear...this is a non-invasive health measure to address a public health situation...not the NYC Pepsi tax. There’s an obvious difference and we don’t need to go there.

 

[disneygeek90]

I’m not sure too many businesses would require masks absent a government mandate. Businesses need customers, and few business owners will be happy driving them away or acting as the mask police. My son manages a large chain drugstore in California. There are signs saying masks are required for entry, but the employees are being told not to enforce the rule. Probably out of fear that some lunatic will shoot them.

American problems. Incredible.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

And can we leave the Fauci quotes from March out of the discussion. If you want to quote him thats fine but either use something recent or let people know it’s 3 months old. It’s been well established that his stance on masks has changed and there’s zero reason to go back and have that same tired debate.

Except I left out the controversial part of his quote and only included the piece that was relevant here.

 

[lazyboy97o]

And can we leave the Fauci quotes from March out of the discussion. If you want to quote him thats fine but either use something recent or let people know it’s 3 months old. It’s been well established that his stance on masks has changed and there’s zero reason to go back and have that same tired debate.

Again, his position on masks really didn’t change. What changed is his understanding of when people are contagious. In March he said sick people should wear masks.

Sirwalter, extending an order to private citizens in public spaces vs compelling businesses to operate with masks are night and day legal issues. Compelling business will fly(if challenged I bet it will hold up) I'm not sure about compelling people walking on streets. One is commercial regulation and the other is not.

Why don’t you also sue that you have to wear pants in public.

True..... and very legal. An operator has every right to require those entering to wear as long as it is square with ADA.

I can easily see someone successfully invoking that pesky ADA discrimination/compliance angle in specific cases.

ADA does not require the suspension of safety requirements.

 

[larryz]

Again, his position on masks really didn’t change. What changed is his understanding of when people are contagious.

What to do when the scientists lie...?

Dr. Fauci admits health experts lied about masks at the beginning of coronavirus pandemic - Tech Startups

In the early weeks of the coronavirus epidemic, the question many Americans were asking was: Should we be wearing masks? In response, U.S. public health officials including theU.S. Surgeon, said that masks weren't necessary for the general public. “The data doesn’t show that wearing masks in...

techstartups.com

 

[Chi84]

What to do when the scientists lie...?

Dr. Fauci admits health experts lied about masks at the beginning of coronavirus pandemic - Tech Startups

In the early weeks of the coronavirus epidemic, the question many Americans were asking was: Should we be wearing masks? In response, U.S. public health officials including theU.S. Surgeon, said that masks weren't necessary for the general public. “The data doesn’t show that wearing masks in...

techstartups.com

I suppose it's better to admit the lie than to insist that "we have always been at war with Eastasia" . . .

 

[GoofGoof]

This is

What to do when the scientists lie...?

Dr. Fauci admits health experts lied about masks at the beginning of coronavirus pandemic - Tech Startups

In the early weeks of the coronavirus epidemic, the question many Americans were asking was: Should we be wearing masks? In response, U.S. public health officials including theU.S. Surgeon, said that masks weren't necessary for the general public. “The data doesn’t show that wearing masks in...

techstartups.com

This is exactly why these types of things shouldn’t be politicized. It has nothing to do with actual science. Why does it matter what was said back in March? What’s the consensus science on the ground today? So because some people in the government (not independent scientists but government officials) lied about masks in March that means they don’t work today and nobody should wear them? Is that the end game? There are plenty of independent scientists (not public health officials in the government) who agree today that masks are effective when combined with various other measures. Playing the political “gotcha” game is fun for some I guess, but shouldn’t be the basis for decisions today.

 

[Chi84]

This is

This is exactly why these types of things shouldn’t be politicized. It has nothing to do with actual science. Why does it matter what was said back in March? What’s the consensus science on the ground today? So because some people in the government (not independent scientists but government officials) lied about masks in March that means they don’t work today and nobody should wear them? Is that the end game? There are plenty of independent scientists (not public health officials in the government) who agree today that masks are effective when combined with various other measures. Playing the political “gotcha” game is fun for some I guess, but shouldn’t be the basis for decisions today.

I'm offended about being lied to, but it has nothing to do with politics. When you lie to people, you lose credibility. I understand that some people on this board are deeply divided on politics and tend to see everything through that lens, but I don't find that's the case with the general public. Just my view.