Marvel Studios Developing Asian Superhero Film ‘Shang-Chi’

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well it is all comic book my friend, its literally stories ripped from the pages of the comics. So the only way they could go more comic book is if they started making films with the panels instead of live action.....

you know how you go more “Hollywood”? These guys:

But here’s the kicker…it’s not the first two guys that are the problem with marvel…it was the last two. The two that were never in marvel.

And that became Disneys problem…and I can’t even blame them for it.

But it also determined the MCU path. And again…it’s “condition:yellow”

You’re not gonna make billions digging to the bottom of the marvel catalog. The earth isn’t built that way.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

Good thoughts here. I see what you mean. I think they’re having to navigate some interesting dynamics with these next-gen characters. The original actors cast some pretty big shadows. And because several of them are women and people of color, there are social dynamics at play. But I think each will get their chance to shine (or not) when they become more of the focus of the story.

At this point in the MCU, we’re seeing the very comic book approach to character development and mantle-passing: sidekicks replace main heroes, and scrappy newcomers have to fill big shoes. Personally, I don’t want Sam to be a Steve replacement, I want to see them take the character in a new direction (which they seem to be), so I’m excited about Captain America 4.

I'm all for showcasing the sidekicks and letting them step into the spotlight. Sidekicks are often my fave characters (Luis and Darcy are two of my fave characters in the MCU). But those characters have to shine from the first appearance or people (for various reasons) will dismiss them.

Shuri stole my heart the second she was onscreen (hard to do given Chadwick's magnificent presence) - she made an instant WOW impression. I adored Kamala and her family and friends as soon as I saw them. But two delightful from the get go characters (at least one of whom most people didn't even watch) does not a franchise make.

The problem I see is the lack of starpower in these new intro's - and I'm not talking name actors. I think if any of them had made a big impression - even in a small role - there would be greater optimism for the future. When all of the new characters are being met with more of a 'meh' or 'okay' at best (again, trolling and politics aside), that's not good.

 

[Disney Irish]

you know how you go more “Hollywood”? These guys:

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But here’s the kicker…it’s not the first two guys that are the problem with marvel…it was the last two. The two that were never in marvel.

And that became Disneys problem…and I can’t even blame them for it.

But it also determined the MCU path. And again…it’s “condition:yellow”

So lets see, prior to the MCU -

Evans wasn't seen as a leading man he was always cast in supporting roles. The MCU made him into a leading man.

And well RDJs career is very well known. He needed the MCU more than the MCU needed him, it helped revive his career.

Hemsworth was almost an unknown. The MCU made him a star.

And the list goes on.

The point is the MCU at this point doesn't need big stars as a draw, because the MCU is the draw itself.

Also in case you hadn't heard Harrison is coming into the MCU.

You’re not gonna make billions digging to the bottom of the marvel catalog. The earth isn’t built that way.

And that perception is exactly what needs to be reset. Not every MCU film has to make Billions, nor should it be expected to. But the overall franchise is, and that is the point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

So lets see, prior to the MCU -

Evans wasn't seen as a leading man he was always cast in supporting roles. The MCU made him into a leading man.

And well RDJs career is very well known. He needed the MCU more than the MCU needed him, it helped revive his career.

Hemsworth was almost an unknown. The MCU made him a star.

And the list goes on.

The point is the MCU at this point doesn't need big stars as a draw, because the MCU is the draw itself.

Also in case you hadn't heard Harrison is coming into the MCU.

So your point is big names used to be “not big names”? Got that

Are you also saying actors don’t matter at all? Cause that game could be fun too.

And…you missed the point…but I think you’re being coy…or I’ll give you time to catch up

And that perception is exactly what needs to be reset. Not every MCU film has to make Billions, nor should it be expected to. But the overall franchise is, and that is the point.

Um…this is breaking news…but it turns out that marvel is owned by the Walt Disney company…and that dividend hasn’t been great of late

 

[Disney Irish]

So your point is big names used to be “not big names”? Got that

Are you also saying actors don’t matter at all? Cause that game could be fun too.

Nope, what I'm saying is that the MCU doesn't need big names. They can bring in unknown younger actors that can build the characters for cheaper. You know to reign in the costs instead of paying RDJ or other huge names those large contracts of like $50 Bajillion per film, which is where a large portion of these huge budgets are going to.

And…you missed the point…but I think you’re being coy…or I’ll give you time to catch up

I got your point about the other franchises and their failures, but chose to ignore it because you always want to bring it in some way back to Star Wars. This is the MCU not those franchises. Not everything comes back to Star Wars. As another Disney franchise coined the term, Let it go.

Um…this is breaking news…but it turns out that marvel is owned by the Walt Disney company…and that dividend hasn’t been great of late

And? Not every Disney film is going to hit a Billion, come back to reality as even Iger knows that.

 

[erasure fan1]

In all honesty Phase 1 was a mess in terms of a cohesive story, it was really just a bunch of standalone stories with some basic elements that tied it to the others.

I'd disagree. Phase 1 did exactly what it should have. Yes they were standalone stories. Each brought you to the next story and you knew exactly that it was building to something. sure it wasn't all worked out 100%, but it didn't need to be.

As for Quantumania, its tracking better than the other two Ant-man films. If things continue it should finish better than the other two when is all said and done.

Maybe. Here's the issue with the D+ release strategy that's been implemented by Disney thus far. The word of mouth hasn't been all that great on the film. So there's no guarantee people just don't wait for D+. Will it have enough legs for Disney not to pull it early for streaming? I guess we'll see.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'd disagree. Phase 1 did exactly what it should have. Yes they were standalone stories. Each brought you to the next story and you knew exactly that it was building to something. sure it wasn't all worked out 100%, but it didn't need to be.

In case you weren't aware Marvel winged a lot of Phase 1, it wasn't all planned out before hand and a lot of it added last minute. For example the line up of Avengers weren't even be suppose to be who we got, it was a much different line up much closer to the comics origins. And Thanos wasn't even the "big bad" at first. Heck even Iron Man wasn't suppose to be anything more than a standalone film before they added the end credit scene last minute with Stark and Fury. They had to go back and retcon a lot of stuff in later films all because it wasn't as planned out as they make it seem. For example that line in Ragnarok when Hela said the Infinity Gauntlet in Odin's vault was fake, it wasn't intended to be fake when shown in the first Thor in Phase 1.

Marvel's Original MCU Phase 1 Plan Ended With A Very Different Avengers

The Phase 1 road to The Avengers shows how improvized the MCU can be.

screenrant.com

We give a lot of credit to Marvel and Feige for creating this large connected universe with a single story arc through all the films. But in reality Phase 1 was a lot more like how you described Phase 4, throwing things against the wall and seeing what sticks.

Maybe. Here's the issue with the D+ release strategy that's been implemented by Disney thus far. The word of mouth hasn't been all that great on the film. So there's no guarantee people just don't wait for D+. Will it have enough legs for Disney not to pull it early for streaming? I guess we'll see.

I don't see Quantumania being pulled any earlier than WF did. Especially since Iger has stated it'll be up to studio heads to determine release strategy now. So yeah I don't see Feige pulling Quantumania any earlier than 80-90 day, just like WF.

 

[Phicinfan]

So at what point is there a “problem”? That’s an honest question…just looking for an opinion.

Because everyone that said there was no problem with another tent pole turned out beyond dead wrong and are still disgruntled and pee into the wind about it.

But that was a red alert and this is more of a yellow for now.

I wonder, if you would accept the premise that Phase 4 was to tread water? I say this because they were already filming Phase 4 prior to finalizing deal to add Fantastic 4 as well as Xmen.

I get your point on B and C level heroes I don't agree that Capt America or Iron man rate as B level. just me.

I quite honestly feel that the sudden inclusion of Spiderman, made Kevin lose focus, then deal was completed to get Xmen and Fantastic Four and he had to retool to include those. Then pandemic and things went off the rails.

I will say it was "safe" of you to predict the drop in MCU movies, as you don't go from 4 major Avengers movies to "other" titles without some major drop off. But then again, I am waiting still for the payoff. If all this multi-verse work and mythical storyline leads to an Olympus vs. Asgard or more mystical teams like Midnight Sons then it could really pay off.

But to me the ticker will be Xmen and Fantastic Four. If Kevin can't incorporate those two titles and make huge money doing it, then you can kiss MCU push goodbye. You don't get third and fourth chances.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I wonder, if you would accept the premise that Phase 4 was to tread water? I say this because they were already filming Phase 4 prior to finalizing deal to add Fantastic 4 as well as Xmen.

I get your point on B and C level heroes I don't agree that Capt America or Iron man rate as B level. just me.

I quite honestly feel that the sudden inclusion of Spiderman, made Kevin lose focus, then deal was completed to get Xmen and Fantastic Four and he had to retool to include those. Then pandemic and things went off the rails.

I will say it was "safe" of you to predict the drop in MCU movies, as you don't go from 4 major Avengers movies to "other" titles without some major drop off. But then again, I am waiting still for the payoff. If all this multi-verse work and mythical storyline leads to an Olympus vs. Asgard or more mystical teams like Midnight Sons then it could really pay off.

But to me the ticker will be Xmen and Fantastic Four. If Kevin can't incorporate those two titles and make huge money doing it, then you can kiss MCU push goodbye. You don't get third and fourth chances.

Excellent…it’s entirely possible.

This is what I was looking for. And I think they really NEED X if they’re gonna keep the juggernaut (pun) going.

Much more plausible take than something along the lines of ms marvel being able to carry the torch for captain America

 

[DKampy]

you know how you go more “Hollywood”? These guys:

View attachment 700931View attachment 700932
View attachment 700933
View attachment 700934

But here’s the kicker…it’s not the first two guys that are the problem with marvel…it was the last two. The two that were never in marvel.

And that became Disneys problem…and I can’t even blame them for it.

But it also determined the MCU path. And again…it’s “condition:yellow”

You’re not gonna make billions digging to the bottom of the marvel catalog. The earth isn’t built that way.

Well the last guy is now in marvel problem solved

 

[G00fyDad]

Yes. The credit scene in Shang Chi had Captain Marvel and Bruce Banner.

Shang-Chi!!! I Forgot about that one. LOL I could not for the life of me figure that one out.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Phase 1 did exactly what it should have. Yes they were standalone stories. Each brought you to the next story and you knew exactly that it was building to something.

Ummm...

If they were ""standalone"" then they *weren't* bringing one to the next story. That's the opposite of "standalone."

They're part of an arc or not. Simply being in the same universe as a standalone means that it's not bringing one to the next story, tho, there could be world-building. But, by that definition, all of phase four is bringing people to the next story in the same way.

 

[erasure fan1]

In case you weren't aware Marvel winged a lot of Phase 1, it wasn't all planned out before hand and a lot of it added last minute. For example the line up of Avengers weren't even be suppose to be who we got, it was a much different line up much closer to the comics origins.

Yes, they did exactly what they needed to do. But I think you are selling things short.
From your article

Make no mistake, the endgame of the MCU's Phase 1 always was The Avengers - it was part of the original funding for Marvel Studios in 2005

What they did was create great stories and tie it together with some hints and breadcrumbs. We all know they didn't plan out 20+ movie stories all at once. Phase 4 really felt different. It was all over the place from a content standpoint. And most of it was just ok and fairly forgettable. Again, it was quantity over quality.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well the last guy is now in marvel problem solved

Is he?

What was his percentage this time?

(Hence…the problem)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes, they did exactly what they needed to do. But I think you are selling things short.
From your article

What they did was create great stories and tie it together with some hints and breadcrumbs. We all know they didn't plan out 20+ movie stories all at once. Phase 4 really felt different. It was all over the place from a content standpoint. And most of it was just ok and fairly forgettable. Again, it was quantity over quality.

They also were great with casting and the stories were well written/developed…

Winter soldier is a top 5 superhero movie of all time.

And cap and Ironman were the “glue” that held it all together…

But they were too good…which means they got too expensive…

So Disney suggests they “quit”
…and if you believe that…I got some magic beans to sell you.

 

[erasure fan1]

Ummm...

If they were ""standalone"" then they *weren't* bringing one to the next story. That's the opposite of "standalone."

They're part of an arc or not. Simply being in the same universe as a standalone means that it's not bringing one to the next story, tho, there could be world-building. But, by that definition, all of phase four is bringing people to the next story in the same way.

Standalone means you don't need to watch Thor to understand captain America. The movie can stand on its own. Of course they all have a larger connection. I think that's an argumentative take by you for the sake of it. I'm not sure what you are against.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Standalone means you don't need to watch Thor to understand captain America. The movie can tand on its own. Of course they all have a larger connected. I think that's an argumentative take by you for the sake of it. I'm not sure what you are against.

And I think that was always gonna happen with MCU.

It’s very difficult to weave a web like they did for 10+ years.

Has it ever even been tried before? Not really.

But that level of competency is unsustainable

 

[Disney Irish]

Yes, they did exactly what they needed to do. But I think you are selling things short.

I'm not selling things short, I'm being realistic here. I say this as a huge mega fan of the MCU, but Phase 1 wasn't as well connected as you make it seem 15 years later that is all I'm saying. There were glaring plot holes that still stand today from Phase 1 even after the Infinity Saga is over.

What they did was create great stories and tie it together with some hints and breadcrumbs. We all know they didn't plan out 20+ movie stories all at once. Phase 4 really felt different. It was all over the place from a content standpoint. And most of it was just ok and fairly forgettable. Again, it was quantity over quality.

To me it doesn't feel any different. Phase 4 has introduced us to many new characters who we know will be important in Phases 5 and 6, just like Phase 1 did. Maybe it feels different to some today given where we've come in Phases 1-3, I don't know. But to me its a reset back to a Phase 1 for the Multiverse Saga.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

After ‘Ant-Man 3’s’ Second Weekend Box Office Collapse, Should Marvel Get Concerned?

"Ant-Man 3" suffered the biggest drop in MCU history. Is it a blip, or actually cause for concern?

variety.com

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

And this from Disney mouthpiece:

Box Office: Marvel’s ‘Ant-Man 3’ Gets Mauled by ‘Cocaine Bear,’ Suffers Record 69.7 Percent Drop

'Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania' may have won the weekend with $32.2 million but got badly dinged by 'Cocaine Bear,' which opened to a much better-than-expected $23.1 million for Universal. The faith-based 'Jesus Revolution' also delivered strong numbers.

www.hollywoodreporter.com